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Present perfect..........
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1.       LuckyLuc
28 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 02:22 pm

Türkçe'de Present perfect yok o zaman...
ne demek:
Have you ever been to England?
I have lost my keys.
What have you been doing lately?
I have been working here since September.

Çok tesekkurlar!

(if you have any questions about English I'd be pleased to help you!!!)

2.       derya
1360 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 02:42 pm


Ingiltere`ye hiç gittin mi?
Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.
Son zamanda neler yapıyorsun?
Eylülden beri burada çalışıyorum.


As you see there are different ways to express the present perfect in Turkish but no main rule about this.

3.       LuckyLuc
28 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 02:55 pm

Çok tesekkur Derya! I realised that Turkish has many different ways of expressing the perfect tense. Just one question though.....

Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim

Is the -mişim about it being relavant now? Or is it about some uncertainty.... could it translate into

'Anahtarlarımı kaybetdim'?

Sorry if question is silly!

4.       KarTanesi
5 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 03:05 pm

Quoting LuckyLuc:



'Anahtarlarımı kaybettim'?




bence olabilir.

5.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 03:23 pm

Quoting LuckyLuc:

Çok tesekkur Derya! I realised that Turkish has many different ways of expressing the perfect tense. Just one question though.....

Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim

Is the -mişim about it being relavant now? Or is it about some uncertainty.... could it translate into

'Anahtarlarımı kaybetdim'?

Sorry if question is silly!



Turkish doesn't have perfect tense.
You can use -di, -yor, -yordu with suitable words and/or time-adverbs.

-mişim(1st singular) is used to tell that you couldn't recall the time of action. Uncertainty.

6.       LuckyLuc
28 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 03:29 pm

Quote:

Quote:




Turkish doesn't have perfect tense.
You can use -di, -yor, -yordu with suitable words and/or time-adverbs.

-mişim(1st singular) is used to tell that you couldn't recall the time of action. Uncertainty.



Cool any examples of these you can give please?

Thxs

7.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:13 pm

1.İngiltere'ye hiç gittin mi?
can be
a)Have you ever been to England?
b)Did you ever be to England?
hiç is ever.
So, I think that the correct answer should be a.
Because we learned that 'ever' is used with Have/Has.
But grammatical translation should be b.
What is is the difference between a and b?
As a Turk, it is not very clear for me...

2.Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.
I think we cannot translate this to English. I mean with the same grammar.
I wasn't aware that I had lost my keys sometime(unknown) in past. You say that, when(NOW) you needed to use your keys but discovered that they are not in your pocket.(NOW)
a)I lost my keys.
b)I have lost my keys.
Which one is close to my explanation?

Anahtarlarımı kaybettim.
I know that I have lost my keys. I can also tell the time when I lost them. Or you have already discovered that you had lost your keys before arriving in front of the door. So I can't open the door. You don't try to look for your keys, since you know you have lost them.
a)I have lost my keys.
b)I lost my keys.
Which one is close to my explanation?

3.a)Son zamanlarda ne yapıyorsun? -> You are asking if the action still continues. Action started in past but still continuing. Here, son zamanlarda(lately) gives enough information for the time(started in past) and -yor marks the continuous progress.
a)What have you been doing lately?
b)What are you doing lately?
b is grammatical translation. a is the correct one.
That you started an action which still continues.

b)Son zamanlarda ne yapıyordun? -> You are asking with the thought of the action might be ended. Action started in past and ended in past. Relatively close to NOW. Because you said son zamanlarda. -yordu marks that the action which was continuous in the past has ended.
a)What have you been doing lately?
b)What were you doing lately?
Which one do you choose?

4.Eylülden beri burada çalışıyorum. --> Action started in past is still in progress. Here, beri also marks it is a continuing progress.
a)I have been working here since September.
b)I am working here since September.
b is grammatical translation, a is the meaning translation.
I started working in September and I am still working here.

Eylülden bu yana burada çalışıyordum. Action started in past has come to end lately. Since we said 'bu yana' (--> until now).
***We need to change 'beri' to 'bu yana' in the above sentence. In talking language you may use beri but it should be bu yana in grammar. Since beri marks a continuous progress. And 'bu yana' is the same meaning but can be used with an action which is ended or still continuing.
***Actually I am not sure about this(beri/bu yana). It is better to ask someone who has more knowledge than me. But I feel like above.
a)I have been working here since September.
b)I was working here since September.
Which one describes better? a or b?

Finally; -mış/-miş:
1.Used in almost all stories. Describing an action that you weren't there when it happened, so you just heard of it from someone else.
**Ali okula gitmiş. -->
(I asked her mother,father etc) They said that Ali had gone to school.
2.It may also describe that you are not sure of it. or amazed/surprised/shocked of hearing it. Mostly depends on your intonation. You are not sure because you weren't there.
**Ali Ayşe'yi öldürmüş.
You are not sure if Ali is the murderer. You just heard that he killed her.
Or you are shocked to hear that Ali had killed Ayşe. Latter depends on your intonation.

3.Also used to tell that 'someone' was not aware of something. And you became aware recently.
**Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.

**Araba kazası yapmışsın. It looks like you had an car accident,(you just saw his car and have been aware of that there had been a car accident.(NOW))
That can also mean, you heard that he had an car accident, without seeing his car. Say; you are talking in a place where you can't/couldn't see the car.

**Gece kar yağmış. (I saw that in the morning)

It will be nice to see your answers for 1, 2, 3 and 4.
So I can refresh my memory for Past and Perfect.

Regards,

8.       WoraZ
102 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:20 pm

"I have lost my keys" can not be translated as "Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim." Context must be into consideration.

9.       Elisa
0 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:21 pm

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

2.Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.
I think we cannot translate this to English. I mean with the same grammar.
I wasn't aware that I had lost my keys sometime(unknown) in past. You say that, when(NOW) you needed to use your keys but discovered that they are not in your pocket.(NOW)
a)I lost my keys.
b)I have lost my keys.
Which one is close to my explanation?



I think a good translation would be: "I seem to have lost my keys.."
You suddenly realise that you might have lost them, but you didn't see it happening of course. So because you assume you have lost them, you use the -miş tense..

Thanks for your explanations SunFlowerSeed

10.       WoraZ
102 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:40 pm

If "you assume you have lost them" you can not use the "-miş tense" If you assume that, you have to use "probability" structures such as, "galiba, herhalde, sanırım.."

"-mış" tense can be used -grammatically- when you tell something that was told you.
In other words, when somebody tells you something. And when you tell that anyone, you use "-mış" tense.

11.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:42 pm

Can you explain as much as in details,
what is the difference between;
a)I lost my keys.
b)I have lost my keys.

thanks

12.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:45 pm

Quoting WoraZ:

If "you assume you have lost them" you can not use the "-miş tense" If you assume that, you have to use "probability" structures such as, "galiba, herhalde, sanırım.."

"-mış" tense can be used -grammatically- when you tell something that was told you.
In other words, when somebody tells you something. And when you tell that anyone, you use "-mış" tense.



So does it mean this ???

Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim. = I heard that I have lost my keys.

13.       WoraZ
102 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:48 pm

a) I lost my keys.
I lost my keys last week, but I have found them this morning.

b)I have lost my keys.
I have lost my keys and they are still lost.

When you translate both sentences into Turkish;
"Anahtarlarımı kaybettim."

Not in details, but I think it's clear.

14.       WoraZ
102 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:50 pm

Quote:



So does it mean this ???

Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim. = I heard that I have lost my keys.



I didn't say that this sentence can be fully translated into English.


15.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:54 pm

Quoting WoraZ:

a) I lost my keys.
I lost my keys last week, but I have found them this morning.

b)I have lost my keys.
I have lost my keys and they are still lost.

When you translate both sentences into Turkish;
"Anahtarlarımı kaybettim."

Not in details, but I think it's clear.



b is clear.
but not sure of a though. Since you are specifying the time 'LAST WEEK' it is OK to use past. But it doesn't mean that you have FOUND them.

As far as I know that past is used for a time which is clearly explained. Perfect is used for unclear situations in time and the action still continues or recently ended.

16.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:56 pm

Quote:

I didn't say that this sentence can be fully translated into English.




I am agree with you.
That's why I said 'being aware of the thing'.
In grammar it is used to tell the things that we heard exactly.
But it also has the informations of 'unsure' and 'being aware of' depending on the context.

17.       Elisa
0 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 07:59 pm

Quoting WoraZ:

If "you assume you have lost them" you can not use the "-miş tense" If you assume that, you have to use "probability" structures such as, "galiba, herhalde, sanırım.."



OK, I think I used the wrong word then.. Not "assuming" but "suddenly noticing", would that be better?

Another example comes to mind, suppose you go to a new restaurant for the first time. You go in and see that the place is very nice and you say "güzelmiş!" Isn't that a bit similar?

18.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 15 Mar 2007 Thu 08:04 pm

Quoting Elisa:


OK, I think I used the wrong word then.. Not "assuming" but "suddenly noticing", would that be better?

Another example comes to mind, suppose you go to a new restaurant for the first time. You go in and see that the place is very nice and you say "güzelmiş!" Isn't that a bit similar?



Context is important.

If you are telling that to another person, while you are not there(at the restaurant), it is just telling something that you have heard.

But if you went there and found the place very nice then it shows your surprised feeling. As ! shows.

One small addition: You cannot tell that the place was nice to another person after you went there with -miş.

19.       vineyards
1954 posts
 16 Mar 2007 Fri 12:24 am

20.       LuckyLuc
28 posts
 16 Mar 2007 Fri 09:05 pm

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

1.İngiltere'ye hiç gittin mi?
can be
a)Have you ever been to England?
b)Did you ever be to England?
hiç is ever.
So, I think that the correct answer should be a.
Because we learned that 'ever' is used with Have/Has.
But grammatical translation should be b.
What is is the difference between a and b?
As a Turk, it is not very clear for me...

2.Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.
I think we cannot translate this to English. I mean with the same grammar.
I wasn't aware that I had lost my keys sometime(unknown) in past. You say that, when(NOW) you needed to use your keys but discovered that they are not in your pocket.(NOW)
a)I lost my keys.
b)I have lost my keys.
Which one is close to my explanation?

Anahtarlarımı kaybettim.
I know that I have lost my keys. I can also tell the time when I lost them. Or you have already discovered that you had lost your keys before arriving in front of the door. So I can't open the door. You don't try to look for your keys, since you know you have lost them.
a)I have lost my keys.
b)I lost my keys.
Which one is close to my explanation?

3.a)Son zamanlarda ne yapıyorsun? -> You are asking if the action still continues. Action started in past but still continuing. Here, son zamanlarda(lately) gives enough information for the time(started in past) and -yor marks the continuous progress.
a)What have you been doing lately?
b)What are you doing lately?
b is grammatical translation. a is the correct one.
That you started an action which still continues.

b)Son zamanlarda ne yapıyordun? -> You are asking with the thought of the action might be ended. Action started in past and ended in past. Relatively close to NOW. Because you said son zamanlarda. -yordu marks that the action which was continuous in the past has ended.
a)What have you been doing lately?
b)What were you doing lately?
Which one do you choose?

4.Eylülden beri burada çalışıyorum. --> Action started in past is still in progress. Here, beri also marks it is a continuing progress.
a)I have been working here since September.
b)I am working here since September.
b is grammatical translation, a is the meaning translation.
I started working in September and I am still working here.

Eylülden bu yana burada çalışıyordum. Action started in past has come to end lately. Since we said 'bu yana' (--> until now).
***We need to change 'beri' to 'bu yana' in the above sentence. In talking language you may use beri but it should be bu yana in grammar. Since beri marks a continuous progress. And 'bu yana' is the same meaning but can be used with an action which is ended or still continuing.
***Actually I am not sure about this(beri/bu yana). It is better to ask someone who has more knowledge than me. But I feel like above.
a)I have been working here since September.
b)I was working here since September.
Which one describes better? a or b?

Finally; -mış/-miş:
1.Used in almost all stories. Describing an action that you weren't there when it happened, so you just heard of it from someone else.
**Ali okula gitmiş. -->
(I asked her mother,father etc) They said that Ali had gone to school.
2.It may also describe that you are not sure of it. or amazed/surprised/shocked of hearing it. Mostly depends on your intonation. You are not sure because you weren't there.
**Ali Ayşe'yi öldürmüş.
You are not sure if Ali is the murderer. You just heard that he killed her.
Or you are shocked to hear that Ali had killed Ayşe. Latter depends on your intonation.

3.Also used to tell that 'someone' was not aware of something. And you became aware recently.
**Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.

**Araba kazası yapmışsın. It looks like you had an car accident,(you just saw his car and have been aware of that there had been a car accident.(NOW))
That can also mean, you heard that he had an car accident, without seeing his car. Say; you are talking in a place where you can't/couldn't see the car.

**Gece kar yağmış. (I saw that in the morning)

It will be nice to see your answers for 1, 2, 3 and 4.
So I can refresh my memory for Past and Perfect.

Regards,



Thank you very much!

We use 'have you ever been to England' because it is 'in you life' time period that these questions usually have, i.e. 'Have you read Macbeth?'
but
'did you go to England...
we need a time phrase such as,

yesterday,last week, in January(past)last year, 2 months ago ect, Which is to say past simple is used for finished actions at a specified time.
Present perfect either Finished action(s) at an unspecifed time. i.e.
A-Have you ever been to England?
B-Yes, I've been twice, I went in 2005 and I went last summer.

Or to announce some new information:
A-We have moved house.
B-When did you move?
A-we moved last month.

Yes you are right, EVEN is nearly always used with present perfect tense also: since, latelyrecently,
And Present Continous is (nearly) always an unfinished action started in the past.

So my answers to your questions:
1.a)Have you ever been to England?
2a. b)I have lost my keys
2b. b)I have lost my keys (see above)
3a. a)What have you been doing lately?
3b. a)What have you been doing lately?
4. a)I have been working here since September

Thanks for the stuff about -miş tense, really useful!
Hope this has been useful for you.... also note that some dialects of English uhave funny uses or don't use it 'properly' but this is the 'technicaly' correct... lol
If you have any questions about Present perfect or anything... I'm an English teacher so I don't mind explaining it
Sağol olsun!

21.       LuckyLuc
28 posts
 16 Mar 2007 Fri 09:11 pm

Quoting WoraZ:

a) I lost my keys.
I lost my keys last week, but I have found them this morning.



I found them this morning.
or
I have found them!
(I have them now but we don't know when, maybe this morning maybe just now)
Sorry for getting technical on you all!

22.       Dilara
1153 posts
 17 Mar 2007 Sat 02:24 am

İlginç bir konu! kafam da karıştı çünkü 'present perfect' Türkçe'de açık değil ama şimdi anladım zira açıklamanız çok iyiydi (her zamanki gibi!)
Ama 'past perfect' hakkında bir sorum var
- miş + di past doğru mu?
Mesela
" Mısır'a gitmiştim ' = I had gone to Egypt .
Çok sağol herkese!
Dilara

23.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 17 Mar 2007 Sat 06:57 am

Quoting Dilara:

İlginç bir konu! kafam da karıştı çünkü 'present perfect' Türkçe'de açık değil ama şimdi anladım zira açıklamanız çok iyiydi (her zamanki gibi!)
Ama 'past perfect' hakkında bir sorum var
- miş + di past doğru mu?
Mesela
" Mısır'a gitmiştim ' = I had gone to Egypt .
Çok sağol herkese!
Dilara



"-mişti" doğru.
Cümlen yaklaşık olarak "Someday in past, I have been in Egypt" demek. In fact, it looks like that you are telling a long story, and you mention that you were in Egypt. If you want to say only this sentence, you should use -dı past.

Dün okula gittim << You may or may not go on with another related sentence, or if there is a story.

Dün okula gitmiştim << You say a story and you will go on with another sentence in order to tell full story. If you say just this sentence, I expect that you will say more:

Dün okula gitmiştim, hoca gelmedi. << We made another sentence in order to finish the full story. You may use only "-dı" past too.

On the other hand, if you answer a question, you may use it:

A -Dün neredeydin?
B -Okula gitmiştim.

B could say "okula gittim" too.

It may refer also "as far as I know" or "according to the last time I have seen":

A -Kardeşin nerde?
B -Okula gitmişti

We understand that B doesn't know either where his brother is exactly. He says that his brother would have gone to school and he expects that he is at school. If he said "gitti", we understand that he knows it exactly. If he said "gitmiş", we understand that he asked someone another and he knows, exactly again.

A -Abin ödevini yaptı mı?
B -Yapmıştı.

B says that "He did do his homework" but he is not sure about the topic. We understand that he saw his brother while he was doing his homework but he is not sure whether he was doing the homework really or not.

Türkçen de ne kadar güzel. Okulu bitir, sana Türkiye'de iş bulalımlol

24.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 17 Mar 2007 Sat 10:47 am

---OFF TOPIC---

I don't know the technical meaning of 'tense'.
I mean if it is only related to time.

These are my opinions, down there. You may not be agree with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tenses giving information on the TIME should be simple.
There are 3 of them.
-PAST
-PRESENT CONTINUOUS
-FUTURE

***********************
Some people omit FUTURE, because you cannot give time information on an action which didn't happen yet so it is not a thing REAL. It just shows your idea, thought about an future action. I heard some languages don't have future tense at all. But we translate them using FUTURE to our languages and I accept it as a tense.
Also Korean doesn't have a clear PRESENT tense. They have a suffix to show an 'in progress action', but mostly omitted for general 'in progress actions'.
In Turkish -iyor doesn't have a clear translation to Korean.
but -mekte olmak has a clear translation to Korean.
Also in most languages imperative form is the verb alone, but in Korean if you use the verb alone, it means a continuous tense or a wish. You need to add imperative suffix.
***********************

We can perfectly translate any of simple tenses to almost any language.
Okula gittim. / I went to school.
Okula gidiyorum. / I am going to school.
Okula gideceğim. / I will go to school.

So other tenses, perfects, both of future tenses in English, aorist or -miş in Turkish, or some mood suffixes doesn't have clear translation to every language grammatically.
Though they sound similar, aorist and simple present are diferent.
Turkish cannot distinguish will and am going to, or perfect tenses etc in simple grammar.
English cannot distinguish -miş, aorist etc in simple grammar.

Why?
Simply they hold more information than a simple tense.

So we need to provide extra information. How, where, when etc.
I know and also experienced in my language learning classes when I had at schools in my life time, people/teachers/students are trying adapt those things to their or learners language. And simple books don't have enough explanations about them. Since you don't know anything about them, you accept them as you have been told. Easy for a beginner to get the main idea about it. But when you improve it becomes more complicated. Well, maybe it is not good to go deeper...

Quoting LuckyLuc:

Yes you are right, EVEN is nearly always used with present perfect tense also: since, lately recently,
And Present Continous is (nearly) always an unfinished action started in the past.


>> See it is NEARLY. So, there should be some other usages. That is not mentioned in books. Well, nobody will study an encyclopedia to learn a language in the beginning. lol
No need to reply that one Lucky Luc, I will discover them myself. You helped enough. That was just an example.

Let's use -miş as an example.
In a simple book, it says that it is used to tell something that you heard from someone else. So it must be impossible to use it with 1st singular. But we use it.
---Anahtarlarımı kaybetmişim.
according to that book it should be translated as
---I heard from MYSELF that I have lost my keys.
This doesn't sound logical, does it? So there must be something else with -miş that was not in the book.

Another one;
*I love you. -- This is simple present sentence in English.
Which if we translate it to Turkish using so-called equivalent tense it becomes:
*Seni severim. -- Which means I love you generally. Closer to like than to love.
It should be
**Seni seviyorum. --Which shows an ongoing progress.
but if we translate this to English;
**I am loving you. --'Not sure about this one actually' It may show that I am loving you for now, but tomorrow maybe I will not love you.

or sometimes there is no logic in that. It is just a way of speaking. I can't provide an example for now but there are grammatical expressions which is not logical has a logical meaning. Maybe;
---Long time no see.
I think most of the people accept that grammatically correct even it is not. It is a common saying without grammar.
in Turkish. Uzun zaman yok görmek.
but we say;
Uzun zamandır görünmüyorsun.
Ne zamandır yoksun ortalıkta.
Görüşmeyeli çok oldu.
Biz seni kurda, kuşa yem oldu zannediyorduk. etc

As I tried to explain above, simple tenses are simple as the name starts with simple. They give simple informations. But other tenses or moods MAY not have correct/direct equivalents in other languages. That is why I like and use this forum. Discussions help learning new things, so to improve and also help people to understand each other better.
I also thank Lucky Luc for starting such thread and replying my questions on Perfect. And of course all other people who participated and helped a lot.

May the force be with you.

25.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 17 Mar 2007 Sat 11:02 am

Quoting Dilara:

İlginç bir konu! kafam da karıştı çünkü 'present perfect' Türkçe'de açık değil ama şimdi anladım zira açıklamanız çok iyiydi (her zamanki gibi!)
Ama 'past perfect' hakkında bir sorum var
- miş + di past doğru mu?
Mesela
" Mısır'a gitmiştim ' = I had gone to Egypt .
Çok sağol herkese!
Dilara


Caliptrix did more than well. Nothing more to say here. But I want you to notice something with Dilara's post.
She said -mişti = past perfect.
I think it is taught like that to foreigners.
The easy way to adapt tenses each other, since they sound grammatically correct but in the meaning they are different.

26.       WoraZ
102 posts
 17 Mar 2007 Sat 11:52 am

Quoting LuckyLuc:

Quoting WoraZ:

a) I lost my keys.
I lost my keys last week, but I have found them this morning.



I found them this morning.
or
I have found them!
(I have them now but we don't know when, maybe this morning maybe just now)
Sorry for getting technical on you all!



You don't have to be sorry for getting technical on us all!

You may be right about that, but when I say that I have found them, it means I have them "now". I think it's not related to what you have just said.

27.       Dilara
1153 posts
 18 Mar 2007 Sun 02:45 am

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting Dilara:

İlginç bir konu! kafam da karıştı çünkü 'present perfect' Türkçe'de açık değil ama şimdi anladım zira açıklamanız çok iyiydi (her zamanki gibi!)
Ama 'past perfect' hakkında bir sorum var
- miş + di past doğru mu?
Mesela
" Mısır'a gitmiştim ' = I had gone to Egypt .
Çok sağol herkese!
Dilara



"-mişti" doğru.
Cümlen yaklaşık olarak "Someday in past, I have been in Egypt" demek. In fact, it looks like that you are telling a long story, and you mention that you were in Egypt. If you want to say only this sentence, you should use -dı past.

Dün okula gittim << You may or may not go on with another related sentence, or if there is a story.

Dün okula gitmiştim << You say a story and you will go on with another sentence in order to tell full story. If you say just this sentence, I expect that you will say more:

Dün okula gitmiştim, hoca gelmedi. << We made another sentence in order to finish the full story. You may use only "-dı" past too.

On the other hand, if you answer a question, you may use it:

A -Dün neredeydin?
B -Okula gitmiştim.

B could say "okula gittim" too.

It may refer also "as far as I know" or "according to the last time I have seen":

A -Kardeşin nerde?
B -Okula gitmişti

We understand that B doesn't know either where his brother is exactly. He says that his brother would have gone to school and he expects that he is at school. If he said "gitti", we understand that he knows it exactly. If he said "gitmiş", we understand that he asked someone another and he knows, exactly again.

A -Abin ödevini yaptı mı?
B -Yapmıştı.

B says that "He did do his homework" but he is not sure about the topic. We understand that he saw his brother while he was doing his homework but he is not sure whether he was doing the homework really or not.

Türkçen de ne kadar güzel. Okulu bitir, sana Türkiye'de iş bulalımlol



Thank you so much everybody!! especially Caliptrix and SunFlowerSeed for the detailed explanations you gave me!
You cant ımagıne how useful they are for me otherwıse I tend to mıx the tenses up! but It is clear for me now !

"Türkçen de ne kadar güzel. Okulu bitir, sana Türkiye'de iş bulalım " haha beni güldürdün !
Çok sağ ol!!
Dilara

28.       longinotti1
1090 posts
 18 Mar 2007 Sun 07:42 am

My corrected attempt at humor:

çok çok iyi şeylar! Herkese Tesekkürler!

29.       kvirzi
3 posts
 03 Jul 2011 Sun 05:17 pm

Wow, what a great discussion!

 

I know this is a few years old now, but I am happy to find this site and hopefully there are more discussions like this here.

 

As far as this discussion goes, the one thing I kept thinking as I read through all the messages was simply that "I have lost my keys" is an unfortunate example.  I cannot think of an example when I would use this.  I would always say I lost my keys.

 

I lost my keys again last week.

I lost my keys and I cannot find them.

I lost my keys yesterday, but I found them this morning.

 

The only example I can think of for the other would be if you are at the door and you notice your keys are gone then you would maybe say:

 

Dang it!  Looks like I have lost my keys again.

 

I add the again, because you would use this if it was something that was always happening.  If it was the first time and you got to the door and noticed your keys were gone you would probably say, 

 

I can´t find my keys!

 

All the other examples were useful though in my opinion!

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