Language |
|
|
|
|
|
ki, olarak and somethings!
|
| 10. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 02:49 am |
|
Cynicmystic, I think you are a bit unfair to Turkish native speakers. Now that it seems you should also mind your own "-de"s and "de"s which is a very common confusion; we are left with no one to speak Turkish good enough by your own reasoning.
|
|
| 11. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 04:45 am |
|
well,
that's why I am called
cynicmystic
I am actually a cynical bastard... 
Quoting vineyards: Cynicmystic, I think you are a bit unfair to Turkish native speakers. Now that it seems you should also mind your own "-de"s and "de"s which is a very common confusion; we are left with no one to speak Turkish good enough by your own reasoning.
|
|
|
| 12. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 06:39 am |
|
Actually, it's the same in English. Most native English speakers have very little technical knowledge of how to put things together. That seems to be a common problem. Some how we muddle through. 
It is amazing we communicate as well as we do, what with the complexity and imprecision in spoken and written language.
Quoting cynicmystic: well,
that's why I am called
cynicmystic
I am actually a cynical bastard...
Quoting vineyards: Cynicmystic, I think you are a bit unfair to Turkish native speakers. Now that it seems you should also mind your own "-de"s and "de"s which is a very common confusion; we are left with no one to speak Turkish good enough by your own reasoning.
|
|
|
|
| 13. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 08:11 am |
|
Quote: On the other hand, something like "bende bilmem ki" is slang, ungrammatical as it is incomplete, and is, in most cases, used in place of "bilmiyorum or bilmem", meaning nothing other than "I don't know." The use of both the -de suffix and the -ki is arbitrary, and in fact, grammatically wrong. Nevertheless, this colloquial form is extremely common.
|
What makes you think it is slang? and why should it be ungrammatical because it is imcomplete?
What do you mean by "The use of both the -de suffix and the -ki is arbitrary, and in fact, grammatically wrong"?
|
|
| 14. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 08:37 am |
|
My girlfriend's always using "ki" in this kind of way, and I still can't figure it out. I've asked her, but she can't really explain it. She compares it to saying "well", like just a filler word, but I don't think "well" is quite right. I guess it'll just take some time to get a feel for it.
|
|
| 15. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 09:04 am |
|
"Ama sen hiç gelmedin ki"!!!!
When I see this type of "ki" written I always think the speaker must be using a "whiney" or a "cross" or "frustrated" voice, 'cos it is used in slang a bit like that.
Hiç gelmedin ki: BUT you didn't come
(accusation, or in defence when someone accuses you e.g. Neden yemek daha önce hazırlamadın? Sen bana haber vermedin ki!)
|
|
| 16. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 06:05 pm |
|
You still haven't clarified whether you speak Turkish as your mother tongue or whether you are a student. When you do that, I will bother to reply to your posts.
Quoting si++: Quote: On the other hand, something like "bende bilmem ki" is slang, ungrammatical as it is incomplete, and is, in most cases, used in place of "bilmiyorum or bilmem", meaning nothing other than "I don't know." The use of both the -de suffix and the -ki is arbitrary, and in fact, grammatically wrong. Nevertheless, this colloquial form is extremely common.
|
What makes you think it is slang? and why should it be ungrammatical because it is imcomplete?
What do you mean by "The use of both the -de suffix and the -ki is arbitrary, and in fact, grammatically wrong"? |
|
|
| 17. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 06:26 pm |
|
Quoting cynicmystic: You still haven't clarified whether you speak Turkish as your mother tongue or whether you are a student. When you do that, I will bother to reply to your posts. |
Quoting cynicmystic: well,
that's why I am called
cynicmystic
I am actually a cynical bastard... |
Ouhhhhhh! I love your style 
|
|
| 18. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 08:03 pm |
|
Ben de bilmem ki.
I dont see where this is grammatically wrong.
Bende = de = ismin 'de'hali, yani bulunma hali (locative)
Ben de = bağlaç, bağlama görevinde.
ki = a word that comes from Farsi. İt is used in different ways.
Bazen ki'nin bağlama funksiyonu ön planda, ki bir yardımcı cümleyi kendisinden önce gelen asıl cümleyi bağlıyor:
- görüyorum ki çalışmışsın
Ama.. bazen de bu bağlama fonksiyonu yok. Yalnız küvvetlendirme edatı şeklinde de kullanılır:
- Seninle konuşulmaz ki!
- Bilmem ki!
Küvvetlendirme, şaşırma gösteriyor. Bütün dünyadaki diller gibi, Türkçe de başka dillerden bazı kelimeler almış. 'Ki' konusunda, anlattığın gibi, biraz zor oluyor. When using 'ki' in the meaning of 'que', it becomes problematic: to use ki we need a complete different structure of sentence, and not the genitive construction that is normally used in 'correct' Turkish:
- Çalıştığını gördüm
- Gördüm ki çalışmışsın.
However, it has been taken into Turkish official university grammar books for years and has become a regular, correct form of the Turkish language. The difference with 'que' is, that 'ki' in most cases expresses some sort of surprise or discontent.
Maybe it doesnt look that good in written documents, newspapers (there is always a difference between formal and informal language, whether it is based on grammar, wordorder or pronounciation), but in the konuşma dilinde, İstanbullular can use it if they prefer. This doesnt mean there is no such thing as 'ki' being used grammatcially incorrect, ama bu zaten kelimelerin yarisi icin sayilir.
|
|
| 19. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 08:19 pm |
|
+1 - that was the clearest explanation of a grammar point I think I've ever seen here - thanks very much!
|
|
| 20. |
07 Oct 2007 Sun 08:21 pm |
|
Never mind.
I just wonder what would be your answers to those questions.
Apperantly, you don't have good answers.
What makes you think that my L1 is not Turkish?
(Anadilimin Türkçe olmadığı hissine nereden kapıldın?)
Quoting cynicmystic: You still haven't clarified whether you speak Turkish as your mother tongue or whether you are a student. When you do that, I will bother to reply to your posts.
Quoting si++: Quote: On the other hand, something like "bende bilmem ki" is slang, ungrammatical as it is incomplete, and is, in most cases, used in place of "bilmiyorum or bilmem", meaning nothing other than "I don't know." The use of both the -de suffix and the -ki is arbitrary, and in fact, grammatically wrong. Nevertheless, this colloquial form is extremely common.
|
What makes you think it is slang? and why should it be ungrammatical because it is imcomplete?
What do you mean by "The use of both the -de suffix and the -ki is arbitrary, and in fact, grammatically wrong"? |
|
|
|
|
