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turkish borrowings in polish
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| 1. |
19 Nov 2007 Mon 05:55 pm |
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merhaba to everybody!..
my interest is turkish borrowings in other languages.
is there anybody interested in the same subject?
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| 2. |
19 Nov 2007 Mon 08:56 pm |
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Go ahead. I am interested.
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| 3. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 09:46 am |
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Most of the borrowings from Turkish in Polish language refer to army,armour,horses but not only.Here are some of examples-
basza, orda (horda), wezyr, buława, kajdany, jasyr, bachmat, atłas,kilim,sułtan
At least those I remember but there are more)))
When i have more time will try to provide more)))
Good day for all!!!!
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| 4. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 10:55 am |
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Quoting si++: Go ahead. I am interested. |
Me too!
I can immediately think of a few from Turkish to English:
Yogurt
Kiosk
Kebab (and all its variants e.g. doner, shish etc),
I have a Hungarian friend and she tells me a lot of words are the same in Hungarian, e.g. şapka for hat
Anyone else?
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| 5. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 12:02 pm |
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You can't say that something is borrowed from Turkish, if you don't know origin of these words. In this solution you can creative new theory that languge turkish is a mother of most languages in the world . Most of common terms are from Latin, Greek, Arabic. If you want to play like that you can find similar words in our languages, but I'm really far from saying about loaned terms.
For example:
turkish "baraj" - this word has origin from french "barrage" and "barre" but you can find in turkish, in polish (baraż , in english (barrage)
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| 6. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 12:22 pm |
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what i will write is very uncomplete.
hungarian has assimilated turkish words during the occupation. basa, janicsar are few army-related words i can recall right now.
hungarian is accepted to be finn-ugric language. however this theory is still discussed by linguistics.
there are proofs of cohabitation with turkic as with ugric people also.
there are older turk origin words in hungarian, which in time transformed, such trough rotacization of z:
ökör ~ öküz, ögüz
sár ~ saz
szűr- ~ süz
you'll find turk words also in the domain regarding nomad life forms, working the field , farming, fishing.
according to researchers upon folk music children's folk songs show many similarities with turkish songs.
huns and macar are certainly of asian and very probably of turcik origin.
in my opinion, a very interesting branch are the seklers, which are supposed to be macars caming on a former migrational wave and settling in Transilvania.
pictures of the seklers from the 20th century still show people with strong mongolistic features...
what i have written here is not complete and there are far more discussable wievpoints and also pro-contra theories on the origins of macar.
i tend to relate them more to turcik origins though.
there is a sentence which is used to show similitudes between turkish and hungarian
cepimde cok kücük elma var.
a zsebembe sok kicsi alma van.
i am off to eat some apples))))))))))))))))
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| 7. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 12:26 pm |
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A long time ago an attempt to create a list of Turkish words that an English speaker could understand has been made. You may want to check it out HERE.
These, however, are not necessarily borrowings into either of these languages, just a list of words that are more or less the same for both (naturally they are borrowed from one and the same language, but it's not specified which one).
I may just add that I was laughing when I saw that the Polish word kaloryfer was kalorifer in Turkish.
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| 8. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 02:01 pm |
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Quoting MarioninTurkey: Quoting si++: Go ahead. I am interested. |
Me too!
I can immediately think of a few from Turkish to English:
Yogurt
Kiosk
Kebab (and all its variants e.g. doner, shish etc),
I have a Hungarian friend and she tells me a lot of words are the same in Hungarian, e.g. şapka for hat
Anyone else? |
Bridge (game) < birüç (one three)
Jackal < çakal
Hurray < ura (ur-mak = beat)
Tulip < tülbent
I have read that there are more than 500 words in English borrowed from Turkish.
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| 9. |
20 Nov 2007 Tue 02:13 pm |
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Quoting portokal: what i will write is very uncomplete.
hungarian has assimilated turkish words during the occupation. basa, janicsar are few army-related words i can recall right now.
hungarian is accepted to be finn-ugric language. however this theory is still discussed by linguistics.
there are proofs of cohabitation with turkic as with ugric people also.
there are older turk origin words in hungarian, which in time transformed, such trough rotacization of z:
ökör ~ öküz, ögüz
sár ~ saz
szűr- ~ süz
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Also
Ekir - ikir/ikiz (twin)
That rotasizm is because most of the Turkish words in Hungarian were borrowed from Chuvash (an r-Turkic language)
Quoting portokal:
you'll find turk words also in the domain regarding nomad life forms, working the field , farming, fishing.
according to researchers upon folk music children's folk songs show many similarities with turkish songs.
huns and macar are certainly of asian and very probably of turcik origin.
in my opinion, a very interesting branch are the seklers, which are supposed to be macars caming on a former migrational wave and settling in Transilvania.
pictures of the seklers from the 20th century still show people with strong mongolistic features...
what i have written here is not complete and there are far more discussable wievpoints and also pro-contra theories on the origins of macar.
i tend to relate them more to turcik origins though.
there is a sentence which is used to show similitudes between turkish and hungarian
cepimde cok kücük elma var.
a zsebembe sok kicsi alma van.
i am off to eat some apples))))))))))))))))
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This story is told by the composer A. Adnan Saygun in his "Bartók in Turkey," The Musical Quarterly, Jan. 1951, pp. 5-9:
"Bartók had set to work for some time studying the Turkish language. The words common to the two languages repeatedly became the subject of our conversation. Having encountered considerable difficulties in convincing not
only the women to sing but also the men, whether young or old (for they had a vague apprehension before a stranger who did not speak their language), I proposed to the Master that we make up a sentence that would be almost the same in Hungarian and Turkish. Then whenever we again met some people who were intimidated by the presence of a stranger, I would take over and give them a little talk about the history of the two peoples in which I would say that the Hungarians were only Turks who had settled somewhere else,
that they always had spoken Turkish, but that evidently in the course of the centuries their accent had become more or less different. After that I would ask the composer to repeat the sentence we concocted. Bartók would repeat it readily with an anxious smile barely visible on his lips. Of
course, everyone understood it, and after several disquisitions on this subject we quietly set to work. Here is the sentence:
In Hungarian: Pamuk tarlón sok árpa, alma, teve, sátor, balta, csizma, kicsi kecske van.
In Turkish: Pamuk tarlasinda çok arpa, alma, deve, çadir, balta, çizme, küçük keçi var.
(Translation: In the cotton field are much barley and many apples, camels, tents, axes, boots, and young goats.)"
Bartok also did field work in Turkey and during his short visit in 1936 collected 87 folk songs, of which twenty were related to the Hungarian folk songs. This represents 40%, a very significant proportion. Bartok pointed out in his conclusion that this discovery of his has international significance, and it shows that the Turkish and the Hungarian music has a common origin, which is from Central Asia and the surrounding area. (A. Andan Saygun, Béla Bartok's Folk Music Research in Turkey, Budapest 1976)
The similarity of the Turkic and Hungarian folk songs show that Hun music is one of their sources, according to Du Yaxiong, and the language of the Huns is a branch of the Turkic languages. (This is what is called the Altaic branch of the Ural Altaic languages to which Hungarian belongs.) The Huns left north Chinas' grasslands toward the west in 91 AD, so that the common factors in both Chinese and Hungarian folk songs must have formed long before that. This not only
proves that both Chinese and Hungarian folk songs still keep the characteristics of the ancient Hun folk music but it also shows that the Hun's folk songs are one of the important sources of the Hungarian folk songs.
In Bartok's own words: "It is evident that this is no mere
coincidence. No such tunes can be found among the Yugoslavs, the Slovaks of the west and north or the Greeks and even in Bulgarian they are occasional. This identity is an irrefutable proof of the age of these melodies: it shows the way back to (at least) the VI and VII Th. centuries A.D. At that period the ancestors of the Anatolian Turks lived somewhere on the borders of Europe and Central Asia in the
neighborhood of other Turkish tribes, those of the Hungarians between the Caspian Sea and the Black Sea."
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