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fear, outrage, prejudice, indifference, silence and disguise
(37 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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1.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 06:17 pm

I read this comment of Femme's on another thread and I wanted to comment without hijacking the existing thread, hence this new one.

femme_fatal

Quote 12 Feb 2008 Tue 06:41 am

Quoting femme_fatal:

i actually always keep saying that im not afraid of terror but of the indifference to te terror.
im disgusted by those who keep silent or those who try to justify the terror or those who disguise the evil.
indifference is the worst thing i know.



She is right, there can be no justification for terror and indifference to it does absolutely nothing to counter it or solve the grave problems relating to it. I guess we have to ask ourselves why more and more people are becoming indifferent to their own national and also international issues.

Terrorism is nothing new and it is a world wide problem: Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka; ETA in Spain; PIRA and UDA (2 of many) in UK; Japanese Red Army;Kahane Chai - Israel; Hamas - Israeli/Westbank/Gaza area; Lord's Resistance Army (aChristian/ pagan/ muslim group) - Northern Uganda); Ku Klux Klan - USA; even some extreme animal rights activists. Then there are the lone terrorists.
These are just a few od very many listed on wikipedia.

British Journalist Robert Fisk (The Independent) said

"once you acquire fear it’s very difficult to get rid of it "

IMO fear of the actions of a particular organisation can also perpetuate prejudice amongst mainstream citizens and it is the duty of governments and the media to act and report responsibly and truthfully. Governments and organisations often have their own agenda and this can affect the way they present information. All sides are guilty of using propaganda at some time or other. Is it any wonder ordinary people feel misinformed, fearful, outraged, indifferent and apathetic?

It is an extremely difficult task to get violently opposing groups to begin peace talks when there is an atmosphere of mutual mistrust (eg. Turkey's problems with Armenians and Kurds). Mediators are often needed and they should be neutral - an extremely difficult state to be, given today's ever shrinking world, where everybody seems to be doing business with everybody, no matter what.

Femme used the word disguise and it prompted me to recall a couple of videos I watched at the weekend. I am sure there are many more like them, portraying different countries' similar methods of reporting. These videos highlight how incidents can be distorted or 'disguised' as something they are not, by the lexicon used. It compares the same incidents reported by US and UK media and it makes interesting viewing.

The videos present one item in 2 parts and each is about 30 minutes long. They need to be watched in their entirety in order to hear comments from many different sources.

The videos are food for thought and, as I have already said, I'm sure there are examples of other countries using similar strategies. In no way am I anti US, but as a world leading government, they have a huge role to play in some peace processes and there shouldn't be any suspicion that the tail is wagging the dog. Such suspicion will breed indifference and apathy.

There are no easy answers and it will be *&""?& hard work and won't come cheap.

Thanks for the inspiration Femme (and no I'm not being sarcastic)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eCL6WdnuNp4 part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo2HW4T7wK4&NR=1 part 2




2.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 06:45 pm

I have not watched the videos yet, but identifying who the terrorists are sometimes it is not that black and white:

During second world war, the resistance to German occupation was terrorism from the nazis point of view but they were freedom fighters from non-nazis.
islamic jihad is a terrorist organization according to israel but for Labenon, they are freedom fighters. Chechen fighters were freedom fighters for Turks for example but they were terrorist for Russia. Iraqi resistance is resistance to free their country from occupation but they are terrorists for USA and UK.
And when mentioning the terrorism, state terrorism done by strong states should not be ignored either.

3.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:17 pm

Quoting peace train:


Thanks for the inspiration Femme


you are welcome, peace train

4.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:18 pm

Quoting thehandsom:




seems like not only you are in love with me

5.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:24 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:


seems like you are in love with me so badly


I am trying to hide it in public..but..

6.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:30 pm

You are right TheHandsom. The IRA considered they were at war and were not terrorists. Your last sentence is also meaningful in the context of the videos.

The list given on Wikepidea is also interesting because it also gives the names of the countries that view certain organisations as terrorists, so this must mean not everyone does.

I guess in some instances it depends on the individual's point of view. The point I am trying to make is this. The way incidents are portrayed/reported can affect the mind set of a nation's citizens. Some swallow it hook, line and sinker and can become fearful and prejudiced. Some know they are being misinformed and endeavour to seek out alternative views. This was one of the reasons why I posted a few weeks ago asking for alternative news sources to Zaman. I am aware that one newspaper does not give me a balanced insight into Turkish politics.

Politicians are a peculiar breed and are not always sincere. I personally would cite Tony Blair in this category (don't assume you know my political stance from that remark either).

Even on a domestic level, dirty tricks campaigns, propaganda, in house quarrels - all a recipe for turning people right off politics and becoming indifferent. People need to know their views really do matter. Propaganda can be so patronizing.

7.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:31 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting femme_fatal:


seems like you are in love with me so badly


I am trying to hide it in public..but..


darling, the truth is you cant hide love. it will always come out lol
just two days more till thursday

8.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:35 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting thehandsom:




seems like not only you are in love with me



What are you trying to instil in the minds of unsuspecting members?

9.       teaschip
3870 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 07:54 pm

I have already watched this before. They also have something very similiar about Israel. So which one is factual? I'm sure both are to a degree. If you really think we are so nieve to believe everything in the media, then I guess Al Jazeera is also a credible source.

As I mentioned in another thread, unfortunate as it sounds I believe the Palestinians are being used as pawns in the battle to exercise “right of return” which would eliminate Israel as we now know it.

Am I happy Abu Nidal Organisation, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Palestine Liberation Front, the PFLP and PFLP-GC carries out acts of violence, no.

Am I happy the U.S. sends aid to Israel? No..

10.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:11 pm

Strickly from a human perspective....how can such treatment of individuals be tolerated by the rest of the world? To deny people the right to healthcare, education, jobs, land, homes....it's just inhumane. People need dignity. Without it, we resort to extremes. Denying a people their human dignity for 35 years is a tragedy. I don't really care what you call the area, West Bank, Palestine, Gaza, Israel, Disney Land....these are people and this is sad.

11.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:12 pm

Great post peace train, love you

12.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:17 pm

teaschip I think I acknowledged that such media practice is used by many countries and organizations. I acknowledged that not everyone is naive too.

I too am not happy with the acts of violence in the videos and I too do not agree with the aid given to Israel by the US. This is the point I tried to make about mediators, they have to be seen to be neutral. If the US, or whoever want, to play peace maker/mediator they must be seen as fair minded with no ulteria motive, otherwise there is mistrust and resistance. As I said, it is an extremely difficult situation to bring about. Maybe I'm an idealist but I believe the world's peace makers should be a little more selfless.

Muhammad Yunus, Nobel Peace Prize winner 2006, does a great deal of work, tackling poverty and he believes erasion/eradication of poverty is the way to peace. He may have a point and I wonder if that is so then one could say money has the ability to turn some people's heads the wrong way.

13.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:18 pm

Israeli settlements and military bases now occupy over half of the entire West Bank and its best farmland and water resources. These lands are Palestinians and Syrians.

Israel is contented to leave arid and squalid lands to Palestinians, where unemployment is about 50 %. Malnutrition is rampant. People live in squalid conditions, with no medical and social services.
While Abass, on the other hand wants to starve his own people into submission to his dictates. He has been an ineffective leader of the Palistinians, unlike that of the great Yasir Arafat. It is highly suspected that Abass is a pawn of ISRAEL and USA.
While other Arab countries proclaim their support of Palestinian rights and at the same time, rivaling the Israelis with their two sided approach, secretly collaborating with Israel to thwart emergence of an independent Palestinian state on the West Bank. They are afraid that their own country will be shaken up, if democratic elections are held. They are terrified of a HAMAS type of victory.
Will a Palestinian state be possible? Yes.
It will be a mini state with a series of enclaves with Israeli settlements and roads dividing such state. This is what Israeli and the USA want. There would be no peace. The Palestinians will be treated as slaves. No peace is possible without Hamas.
But will Isreal’s powerful right wingers and their USA neo-con supported agree to this? I say no. It is their intention not to cede an inch of Bibical Israel. So whether or not a deal is made in Maryland, it will not be sanctioned by the Israeli government. We will then be in the status quo. This conference is only a photo-op.
On the other hand, there are about 50 % Israelis who want genuine peace and who support real land for a peace deal, but their quest for this is stymied by the fanatics. There are millions of good hearted Israelis, who wants to live in harmony with their neighbours and share the commonality of Prophet Abraham.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/indonesia/TE8IC5OUQUV5616QN

14.       alameda
3499 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:20 pm

I only watched a tiny bit of the videos....I just can't take anymore now. The situation is hideous, frustrating. It goes on and on.

There are few innocent virgins in this story, unfortunatly, they are the ones who pay the most.

The Jews and the Muslims are so close to each other in their beliefs. It's hard to understand how this happens. I suspect it's more outside interference than anything else.

I wish it would STOP!!!

Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem,
certainly had no illusions about what a “Jewish
homeland” in Palestine meant for the British Empire:
“It will form for England,” he said, “a little loyal
Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.”

15.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:38 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

Strickly from a human perspective....how can such treatment of individuals be tolerated by the rest of the world? To deny people the right to healthcare, education, jobs, land, homes....it's just inhumane. People need dignity. Without it, we resort to extremes. Denying a people their human dignity for 35 years is a tragedy. I don't really care what you call the area, West Bank, Palestine, Gaza, Israel, Disney Land....these are people and this is sad.



+1000000000

16.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:42 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



attention please!
aenigma is drunk, please, dont pay attention to her posts!

17.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:48 pm

Quoting alameda:

I only watched a tiny bit of the videos....I just can't take anymore now. The situation is hideous, frustrating. It goes on and on.

There are few innocent virgins in this story, unfortunatly, they are the ones who pay the most.

The Jews and the Muslims are so close to each other in their beliefs. It's hard to understand how this happens. I suspect it's more outside interference than anything else.

I wish it would STOP!!!

Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem,
certainly had no illusions about what a “Jewish
homeland” in Palestine meant for the British Empire:
“It will form for England,” he said, “a little loyal
Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.”



And you will see in the videos that people on all sides deplore the reporting tactics: Rabiis, women's groups etc.

The situation is indeed hideous and I am yet again reminded of Femme's word "indifference", but I think it's more a sense of apathy born out of the feeling that the situation seems impossible, with no "genuine, sincere" desire from some governments to bring about a solution.

Will someone please remind me why the UN exists?

18.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:50 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



Alas, alack . . my heart is promised to another. But thank you

19.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:54 pm

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



Alas, alack . . my heart is promised to another. But thank you



Oh great...this should put AEnigma right over the edge!

20.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 08:54 pm

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



Alas, alack . . my heart is promised to another. But thank you



Nooooooooooooo! Not in THAT way
In a warm, glowy, alcohol induced fuzzy kind of way

21.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 09:00 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Great post peace train, love you



Alas, alack . . my heart is promised to another. But thank you



Nooooooooooooo! Not in THAT way
In a warm, glowy, alcohol induced fuzzy kind of way



NOW I know what's been affecring you all this time

22.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 12 Feb 2008 Tue 09:01 pm

Quoting peace train:

NOW I know what's been affecring you all this time



Yes
Being teetotal was bad for me

23.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:04 am

Quoting peace train:

She is right, there can be no justification for terror and indifference to it does absolutely nothing to counter it or solve the grave problems relating to it. I guess we have to ask ourselves why more and more people are becoming indifferent to their own national and also international issues.


24.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:25 am

the civilised world must say: NEVER AGAIN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmc8PMuZmI

25.       alameda
3499 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 02:37 am

Quoting femme_fatal:

the civilised world must say: NEVER AGAIN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmc8PMuZmI



"Never again" has been said over and over again. However your history in the youtube link is not exactly accurate femme....

"Iron Age (1200–330 BCE)
Pottery remains found in Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gat, Ekron and Gaza decorated with stylized birds provided the first archaeological evidence for Philistine settlement in the region. The Philistines are credited with introducing iron weapons and chariots to the local population.

Developments in Palestine between 1250 and 900 BCE have been the focus of debate between those who accept the Old Testament version on the conquest of Canaan by the Israelite tribes, and those who reject it. Niels Peter Lemche, of the Copenhagen School of Biblical Studies, submits that the picture of ancient Israel "is contrary to any image of ancient Palestinian society that can be established on the basis of ancient sources from Palestine or referring to Palestine and that there is no way this image in the Bible can be reconciled with the historical past of the region."

Palestine

The Egyptians called the area Retjenu

"In the 5th century BCE, the Greek historian and geographer Herodotus wrote in Greek of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê,'from which Latin: Palaestina and Palestine are derived,as "a district of Syria". Syria, at that time, referred rather imprecisely to the region north to south from Asia Minor to Sinai, and west to east from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf. The boundaries of the "distinct" described by Herodotus are even more imprecise, as is the ethnic nature of its people; sometimes it denotes the coast north of Mount Carmel, and elsewhere it seems to extend down all the coast from Phoenicia to Egypt, and as far east as the Jordan River.[15] Josephus used the name Παλαιστινη generally for the smaller coastal area anciently inhabited by the Philistines, which most of his contemporaries prefer to call Philistia. Ptolemy also used the term. In Latin, Pliny mentions a region of Syria that was "formerly called Palaestina" among the areas of the Eastern Mediterranean.[17] Philo uses the terms Palaestina and Canaan interchangeably, noting that the region's Jewish population is larger than that of any other single country."

Palestine

26.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 02:51 am

I need to read more, seriously, I do.

27.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:33 am

Quoting femme_fatal:

the civilised world must say: NEVER AGAIN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmc8PMuZmI


Here we go again

I watched half of it and decided it was enough!!
Because if the first half is completely wrong the probability of other half being wrong is very high..

It is totaly waste of time!!

Full of lies, full of ignorance about the historical facts.
First of all..all that rubbish about 'ah..But it is our promised land, Look at the book' IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH..
That book is written god knows when.. We are living in 2000s.
The claim that 'it is a promised land' is laughable!!

The second is about what was it like under ottoman era, I mean the end of it:

Apperantly there were 350.000 people in 1850 and they were 85% Muslims, 11% Christians and 4% Jews.

According to Ottoman records : the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

So 'ah. Jews were always over there and palestine was not arab' is FALSE!!!

Source from wiki
Of course at this stage Balfour Declaration of 1917 should be mentioned (it is all fault of british in the first place!!). Though it was british giving support of national home for jews at the time, when they needed jews support badly -both politically and scientifically- during the WWI.

And a state was never mentioned in the first place!!!

again from wiki:
One of the main proponents of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was Dr. Chaim Weizmann, the leading spokesman for organized Zionism in Britain. Weizmann was a chemist who had developed a process to synthesize acetone via fermentation. Acetone is required for the production of cordite, a powerful propellant explosive needed to fire ammunition without generating tell-tale smoke. Germany had cornered supplies of calcium acetate, a major source of acetone. Other pre-war processes in Britain were inadequate to meet the increased demand in World War I, and a shortage of cordite would have severely hampered Britain's war effort. Lloyd-George, then Minister for Munitions, was grateful to Weizmann and so supported his Zionist aspirations.

During the first meeting between Weizmann and Balfour in 1906, Balfour asked what payment Weizmann would accept for use of his process and was told, "There is only one thing I want: A national home for my people." Balfour asked Weizmann why Palestine — and Palestine alone — should be the Zionist homeland. "Anything else would be idolatry", Weizmann protested, adding: "Mr. Balfour, supposing I was to offer you Paris instead of London, would you take it?" "But Dr. Weizmann", Balfour retorted, "we have London", to which Weizmann rejoined, "That is true, but we had Jerusalem when London was a marsh."[4]

Weizmann eventually received both monetary compensation for his discovery and his place in history as first President of the state of Israel.


Basically 'legal documentations, our book , promised land etc' are simply NOT TRUE!!.

It is a land stolen from the arabs!!

And about the suicide bombings , terrorism etc.

I think i gave the figures before about which side killed most childeren and civilians.

What is hapening there is a STATE TERRORISM by isreal.

First it should be stopped and I am sure the others will stop too.

Femme, I will hit you on the head with the book of 'The great civilisation' by Robert Fisk when I see you next time..

28.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:40 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpw-h6WY8As

handsom, will you dump femme for me?

29.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:44 am

Quoting catwoman:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpw-h6WY8As

handsom, will you dump femme for me?


Oh god..
Pm me regarding this please

30.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:44 am

Coming to Terms with Deir Yassin
Presented by the PEACE Middle East Dialog Group

Each side in the Mid-East has its own history of horrors, and is all too eager to point the finger of blame at the other side. If we are ever to make peace then each side must first point the finger of blame at itself, come to terms with its own conscience, and apologize for the lost lives, the lost loved ones, the dread and the sorrow we have inflicted on each other.

The bloody Palestinian-Israeli struggle over Jerusalem began in December 1947. The Arabs did not accept U.N. Resolution 181, of November 29, 1947. The resolution called for internationalization of Jerusalem and partition of Palestine into two states. Riots, and soon after that, fighting, broke out in Jerusalem and neighboring villages, and along the road to Jerusalem, where Arab irregulars tried to impose a blockade of Jewish Jerusalem.

As the months went by, the danger to Jewish Jerusalem, and the shortage of supplies, became increasingly acute. The Jewish population was under siege and demoralized. The Haganah defenders attempted repeatedly to open the road to Jerusalem, and succeeded in getting a bare minimum of supplies to the beleaguered populace at great sacrifice. The revisionist Irgun and Lehi armed groups remained separate from the Haganah and Jewish Agency control for quite a long period, because the revisionists claimed that Ben-Gurion and the mainstream Zionist leadership were prepared to accept internationalization of Jerusalem. Until April 9, 1948, the Irgun and Lehi had engaged in no actual combat in Jerusalem, other than terror attacks. Their popularity waned as the Haganah and Palmach became increasingly active in defense of the city.

On April 9, 1948, the Irgun and Lehi attacked the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, which had had a peace pact with its Jewish neighbors, and massacred over a hundred noncombatants. This act had no significance in the defense of Jerusalem, and may have brought great harm by forming the motivation for subsequent Arab massacres. It has become a rallying point for hatred of Israel and Zionism.

There are several Deir Yassin memorial Web sites by Palestinian organizations and Arabs. This is only such site assembled by an Israeli and a Zionist, and to my knowledge it is the most comprehensive and most thoroughly researched one. This site includes following materials, some of which are original articles, others are translations appearing for the first time:

Deir Yassin - The Evidence

Comments by Readers

It is long past time for Israeli Zionists, like myself, to apologize. The Israeli government has never apologized for the massacre of Deir Yassin, though the Jewish Agency apologized to King Abdullah in April 1948. The perpetrators of the massacre at Deir Yassin were never punished, though there was a great hue and cry at the time. Victims were never offered compensation. Therefore, and as long as this is true, the massacre at Deir Yassin has become the dubious moral property of all Zionists. We cannot sit back and say 'this was the fault of the revisionists.' The massacre at Deir Yassin may have set the pattern for much similar behavior throughout the War of Independence. A similar massacre, by dissident troops incorporated in the IDF, occurred later at Al-Dawayima, near Hebron. Other massacres by the IDF are well documented as well. If we Israelis believe that we are a moral society, then we owe it to ourselves to face the past.

Deir Yassin: The History of the Conflict as Mass Psychosis
Equally, it is wicked to trade on the misery of past history in order to create new misery. The events at Deir Yassin were the doings of individuals in time of battle. Some Zionists perpetrated bad deeds, but that does not delegitimize the Zionist cause and those deeds should not be used to delegitimize Zionism and Israel. The massacre at Deir Yassin was not planned. It was not part of a Zionist "plot" to expel the Arabs of Palestine. Nobody ordered the massacre, and the mainstream Zionist leadership in Tel Aviv did not know about the attack in advance or order it as far as we can judge. Further commentary about Deir Yassin and the abuse of history in the conflict is here - Deir Yassin: The History of the Conflict as Mass Psychosis.

The Deir Yassin Massacre was not the beginning of massacres in Palestine, nor did the Jews begin the massacres. In 1920, 1921, 1929 and from 1936 to 1939 Arabs rioted and massacred Jewish civilians in pogroms and terrorist raids. In January of 1948, Arab villagers ambushed a convoy sent to the besieged Etzion Bloc. They murdered every one of its 35 members, and mutilated their bodies. All these massacres took place long before the attack on Deir Yassin. Time and again, Arab "civilians" had proven that there were no noncombatants in the fight. They proved it both by participation of their own villagers in blockading roads and attacking vehicles and settlements, and by their own disregard for Jewish civilians. It was this history, rather than any sinister Zionist plot, which formed the background and motivation for the Deir Yassin massacre. ( see - A history of Zionism and the creation of Israel ). At the very least, we need to acknowledge that some guilt lies on both sides, and that the "tradition" of massacres did not start with the Jews.

The material at this site is not ‘Arab propaganda’ or "anti-Zionist propaganda." It was researched and written by Zionists who are concerned about the moral image of our state. We cannot bring back the dead. We can tell the truth, offer our sincere apologies, and learn the lesson of Deir Yassin and teach it to our children.

Deir Yassin Revisited
Since the above was written, the sides in the Middle East have been busy creating new Deir Yassins. Since September 2000, over 300 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces, and about 40 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians. Some were Palestinian terrorists, some were Israeli settlers and soldiers. Some, like 12 year old boy killed apparently by Israelis, or like the tiny Arab-Israeli girl wounded in a bus explosion in Hadera, or several reporters wounded or killed by Israelis, were innocent bystanders. This new violence will not bring us closer to a solution. It will only engender more Deir Yassins. We have not learned the lessons of Deir Yassin. Those who do not study history are condemned to relive it.
........................................................
The 1948 Massacre at Deir Yassin Revisited

http://www.deiryassin.org/mh2001.html

31.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:48 am

for all those americans' haters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgyY2aCe04Q&feature=related

32.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:56 am

Quoting catwoman:


Did you get my pm?


Yesssss..

33.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 04:29 am

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting catwoman:


Did you get my pm?


Yesssss..


Sooooooo??? You didn't respond, deal is over!

34.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:14 pm

handsome
as for the arab victims, are you saying that all of those children were actually killed by the israeli soldiers?
the arab government encourage every single child to fight jews. parents instead of moving children out of the war line, they opposite send them towards tanks

dont you see the reality? all our tv news showing israel in black colors and arabs as an angel?

if my country was attacked by uzbeks by uzbek suiciders, wouldnt allow any uzbek to enter my country.

thats for the checkpoints are. do you think jews would freely allow arabs to travel bcak and forth after having suicide attacks?
wheres your logic?

at the end: lets take your version: its a stolen land.
then whats your solution for the conflict?
to send back all jews or to give more land to arabs?

35.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:31 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

handsome
as for the arab victims, are you saying that all of those children were actually killed by the israeli soldiers?


Yes..Huge majority..

Quote:


the arab government encourage every single child to fight jews. parents instead of moving children out of the war line, they opposite send them towards tanks


You can find extreme examples everywhere.

Quote:


dont you see the reality? all our tv news showing israel in black colors and arabs as an angel?


As far as the media coverage is concerned:
Media is not partial regarding that conflict.
some passages from Robert Fisk

the occupied Palestinian territory "disputed territory" - after then Secretary of State Colin Powell ordered his diplomats in the region to use this phrase - and to call Jewish colonies illegally built on Arab land "settlements" or - my favourites now - "Jewish neighbourhoods" or "outposts". It is the same stage set on which Israelis are killed by Palestinians - which they are - but on which Palestinians die in anonymous "clashes"

the first claiming that God gave them the land, the second producing land deeds to prove that the law entitles them to their own property. If illegal colonies such as Maale Adumim are built adjacent to Jerusalem - itself illegally annexed by Israel - then of course they are "neighbourhoods"

Quote:


if my country was attacked by uzbeks by uzbek suiciders, wouldnt allow any uzbek to enter my country.

thats for the checkpoints are. do you think jews would freely allow arabs to travel bcak and forth after having suicide attacks?
wheres your logic?


Did you know that the wall they built has gobbled up 10 per cent more Palestinian land for the Israelis?
The wall itself is illegal. The International Court also ruled it to be illegal. And Israel ignored this ruling. So, of course, did the US.

Quote:


at the end: lets take your version: its a stolen land.
then whats your solution for the conflict?
to send back all jews or to give more land to arabs?


I dont think sending jews back is the solution.

The solution lays with israel's acceptance of UN resolutions, which Israel refused constantly (so as USA)..
And it should start with "Resolution 242"

36.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 02:28 pm

im watching this very interesting video

about arab and jewish children

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po_ylNwzl5M

wothy to watch all the parts. I RECOMMEND.



37.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 03:20 pm

Feature - Child victims of Gaza war lie close, but apart
Source: Reuters Foundation

Date: 13 Feb 2008

Child victims of the same war, the two young boys lie just metres apart in hospital, bruised, bandaged and fighting for their lives.

One is Israeli, the other Palestinian. They were wounded on opposite sides of a conflict fought out daily between the Jewish state and the Hamas Islamists who control the Gaza Strip.

Osher Twitto, eight, had his leg blown off last week when a rocket attack fired by Palestinian militants slammed into a street near his home in the southern Israeli town of Sderot.

A few weeks earlier, 6-year-old Yakuub Natil was dancing at an uncle's wedding in Gaza City when debris from an Israeli air strike crushed his legs and chest.

Now the two boys, both breathing by ventilators, lie in the emergency ward of Israel's Safra children's hospital near Tel Aviv. It is not in itself unusual for Israeli hospitals, better equipped than their Palestinian counterparts, to treat patients from the occupied West Bank and even from Gaza, whose borders Israel all but sealed when Hamas seized control there last year.

Many on both sides of the conflict hold up the quiet decency of Jewish and Arab doctors and patients, working and recovering alongside each other in Israeli hospitals, as a model of how the communities could be. But even doctors used to such cooperation have been struck by the poignancy of the two boys' stories.

"What's so unusual is that they are pretty much the same age with similar injuries," said hospital director Gidi Paret.

"It's the real story of life here."

"JUST KIDS"

Yet for all the symmetry, people on either side highlight differences. Gazans point out that they have suffered far higher casualties and hardship than Israelis. The Twitto family and other Israelis say Hamas rocket fire is indiscriminately hitting civilian streets while Israeli forces try to hit only fighters.

Israeli air strikes and ground raids into the Gaza Strip in recent months have killed and wounded dozens of Palestinians, many of them guerrilla fighters but also including civilians.

Militant rocket fire killed two Israeli civilians last year and has traumatised Sderot and nearby towns. The injury to young Osher -- the name means Happiness -- grabbed front pages and has increased public pressure on the Israeli government to hit back.

Yakuub's grandmother Amira, her head covered in the manner of Gazan women, whispers soothing Arabic into his ear. Across the ward, a bearded rabbi in a black hat prays over Osher. Many sick Gazans and their families have been denied entry to Israel for treatment due to the Israeli blockade on the territory that tightened after Hamas seized control in June. Yakuub's mother is still awaiting approval to visit her son.

It is in unclear who will pay for his treatment, although the hospital is hoping a medical charity will step in.

So far, the proximity of the two boys has not brought much open sign of conciliation between the families.

Nonetheless, Yakuub's grandmother seems outraged to hear that the boy across the room was hurt by a Palestinian rocket.

"These are little kids. They shouldn't be targets," she says, shaking her head and breathing out a deep sigh. "God should strike down the people who fired those rockets."

But Osher's parents, weary and drawn after days at their son's bedside, refuse to talk to reporters or have their son photographed alongside the Palestinian. They have expressed their anger at efforts to draw parallels between the two cases.

"Such a photograph tries to show equality between the two cases and there is no truth in that," they said in a written statement provided by the hospital. "Palestinians aim to attack our children. They are happy when we are hit."

Amira Natil, 52, says the story of the two boys illustrates the need for both sides to lay down their weapons.

Of course, she says, her family is angry at suffering they feel is inflicted by Israel, but for now, she is just happy her grandson is getting treatment across the border:

"First they strike us," she said, before adding with a laugh: "But at least they are putting as back together again."

Reuters)

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