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Heaven or Hell?
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| 20. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 08:04 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Elisabeth, being agnostic does not mean you stop believing in God - only religion. If you read my post again, you will understand. And YES SORRY - if you ignore rules of your religion, you are becoming agnostic   |
Its not so black and white, AEnigma, as I am sure you know. There are concepts in the bible that are cruel and harsh...but for the most part, Christianity has grown and developed over time and most of us realize that these are stories and parables. The rules were created by man (MEN). I don't feel the need to confine my thoughts, feelings and beliefs to parameters of set of rules....but I am not agnostic. There is no doubt in my mind of God's exsistance nor is there any doubt that evil souls are tormented in the afterlife and vice versa. Am I misunderstanding the concept of being agnostic....I thought you just had trouble committing to Atheism because somewhere in your mind you fear going to hell.
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| 21. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:33 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: This is a completely hypothetical question.
Would you rather:
A) go to hell for being too tolerant of peoples choices? (ie...not judging people because of their choices)
B) go to heaven because you followed all of your religious teachings and rules? |
This is exactly the kind of question that religious people should ask themselves. If you are a believing person, you are still left to use your own judgment and reason in the complexities of everyday life. I think that religious teachings should give some kind of guidance, but they can never reflect the intricacies of various situations. You may believe that the scriptures are words of God, but they are infiltrated by the mind of a human (Mohammed, Apostles), so it should be self understood that they are both spiritual AND historical writings. What I mean by that is that the writers were probably trying to convey the message to the people in their times, so not everything is applicable these days any more. At least that's what I believe and I think that's what most Christians believe these days, which is also what makes them so much more progressive then the radical Muslims. Of course, muslim countries are oppressive dictatorships, so people can't think freely, unlike the christian countries currently... Anyways...
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| 22. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:46 pm |
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EXACTLY!!
I would like to add that many people are turned off to religion by the "rules". I think free thought and religious thought can coexist without having to reject the idea of God. I know other people feel differently but it makes sense to me.
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| 23. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:50 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: EXACTLY!!
I would like to add that many people are turned off to religion by the "rules". I think free thought and religious thought can coexist without having to reject the idea of God. I know other people feel differently but it makes sense to me. |
Exactly!!! Which makes you agnostic
You cannot pretend you are a half-Christian - if you are Roman Catholic you have to follow the rules - that is WHAT YOUR RELIGION ASKS!!!
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| 24. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:53 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Elisabeth: EXACTLY!!
I would like to add that many people are turned off to religion by the "rules". I think free thought and religious thought can coexist without having to reject the idea of God. I know other people feel differently but it makes sense to me. |
Exactly!!! Which makes you agnostic
You cannot pretend you are a half-Christian - if you are Roman Catholic you have to follow the rules - that is WHAT YOUR RELIGION ASKS!!! |
There is no Catholic that lives by the rules completely. This is an acknowledged fact.....I am Catholic, AEnigma. Not perfect....But Catholic just the same.
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| 25. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:54 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: EXACTLY!!
I would like to add that many people are turned off to religion by the "rules". I think free thought and religious thought can coexist without having to reject the idea of God. I know other people feel differently but it makes sense to me. |
I definitely agree with you. It can coexist, I don't think that faith in God has to be irrational. But I don't think that you can take literally what is said in the books.... I think that would only show a lack of imagination and simplistic thinking. For example, why are people SOOOO afraid of homosexuality? What is wrong with two men or two women loving each other romantically? That is again a lack of free thought and imagination... IMHO. 
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| 26. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:56 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Exactly!!! Which makes you agnostic
You cannot pretend you are a half-Christian - if you are Roman Catholic you have to follow the rules - that is WHAT YOUR RELIGION ASKS!!! |
Who said that? Some priest? Some politician? 
Religion is supposed to be a relationship between you and God, so no - that doesn't include following the institution's "interpretation" and rules.
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| 27. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:57 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting AEnigma III: Exactly!!! Which makes you agnostic
You cannot pretend you are a half-Christian - if you are Roman Catholic you have to follow the rules - that is WHAT YOUR RELIGION ASKS!!! |
Who said that? Some priest? Some politician?
Religion is supposed to be a relationship between you and God, so no - that doesn't include following the institution's "interpretation" and rules. |
Try telling that to your pope
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| 28. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 09:58 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Who said that? Some priest? Some politician?
Religion is supposed to be a relationship between you and God, so no - that doesn't include following the institution's "interpretation" and rules. |
So you are catholic Cat? What is your view on the Vatican? How does it fit in with your beliefs? 
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| 29. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 10:00 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: There is no Catholic that lives by the rules completely. This is an acknowledged fact.....I am Catholic, AEnigma. Not perfect....But Catholic just the same. |
Why do you think you're not perfect? Maybe you are, but only YOU know if you are or not. I really hate those priests who make people feel like you are never good enough, you're always a sinner! As one of the stories go.... "if you're without a sin, throw the stone", which means - DON'T JUDGE!!!
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| 30. |
14 Feb 2008 Thu 10:00 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting Elisabeth: EXACTLY!!
I would like to add that many people are turned off to religion by the "rules". I think free thought and religious thought can coexist without having to reject the idea of God. I know other people feel differently but it makes sense to me. |
I definitely agree with you. It can coexist, I don't think that faith in God has to be irrational. But I don't think that you can take literally what is said in the books.... I think that would only show a lack of imagination and simplistic thinking. For example, why are people SOOOO afraid of homosexuality? What is wrong with two men or two women loving each other romantically? That is again a lack of free thought and imagination... IMHO. |
Fear of homosexuality is a fundamental lack of understanding that human beings would have had 2000 years ago. It went against the social norms and did not perpetuate the continuance of the human race. Back then, it was essential that people have children to ensure survival of farms, family trade...ect...I think religions saw the lack of having children as a bad thing...therefore evil...and against God. Primative thinking. I don't think it has much to do with God.
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