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KOSOVA
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20.       Müjde
posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 01:04 pm

Doesn't anybody remember the events in 90s?
Some of them are kidding about the independence of Kosova.Refresh your memories.
Muslim,Turk or Ottoman these words are those they hate.But how about the word slaugter? Do they hate it as much as the words above?

Check the link:

http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/publications/editorials/Milosevic_Crimes.html

Bağımsızlığınız Kutlu Olsun Kosova.Sizinleyiz.....

21.       duda
0 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 01:53 pm

Do you happen to know a know a good link with an exact number of Serbs and people of other nations that were kiled at Kosovo since 80's, including the last case from two weeks ago? I don't know who doesn't want to hear the word "Turk, Muslim or Ottoman" - Serbs, who are living in peace with Moslem people, or Albanians, who don't want to live even with non-Muslim Albanians and Muslim Turks?

Don't talk about the things you don't understand. And I thought politics was forbidden here.

PS My sincere thanks to femme fatal for presenting the real truth.

22.       Müjde
posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 02:05 pm

Ok We Turks never accept our faults(accaroding to you) but you do it, too.
You can just blame me about my understanding but cant say anything about the link above.
I never express my ideas without evidences. Where are yours?
Please compare the numbers!!!

By the way I agree with you about politic topics here but I didnt start this.

23.       duda
0 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 02:25 pm

You can choose to believe to foreign newspapers or witnesses and victims of brutality. I personally knew some people who were killed there. And my Turkish relatives (two families) were banned and came to Serbia as refugees.


What history says: Since 6th century till the 15th century Kosovo was inhabited by Serbs only. In next 4 centuries Ottomans had a praxis of bringing islamized Albanians so that they can control the land better. In spite of forced popullating, between 1st and 2nd World Wars, Kosovo Serbs were still a majority of around 50 percent, with 45 percent of Albanians and around 5 percent of other nationalities. After the Second world War, when fascistic Albanian forces were defeated, the number of Albanians even decreased. Since 1952, when the border was opened and Albanian emigrants were allowed to enter Serbia, they increased their number mostly by pure emigration. In 1998 there were near to 1,900000 Albanians on Kosovo. Of that number, 600000 Albanians didn't even have legal documents and they were not legal citizens of the country. So-called "aggression" meant protecting Serbian, Turkish and other civils who were brutally killed, raped and maltreated in many ways; also it was an action against terroristic groups and against ilegal immigrants.

Just a small excerption from http://ajnorge.0catch.com/Verdenrundt/Kosovo.htm :

Alter area of the 16th century Church of St. Nicholas, which was looted, vandalized and seriously damaged by
explosives. This happened after the arrival of Italian KFOR (NATO) troops in Pec, Kosovo, in June 1999. The initials carved into the picture are 'UCK'. That's Albanian for 'KLA', the Kosovo Liberation Army, which NATO and the UN have installed in power.


In 1998 Robert Gelbard, the State Department's Special Envoy to the Balkans, said, speaking for his government:

"The UCK is, without any questions, a terrorist group." (Agence France Presse, 23 Feb. 1998)

UCK stands for Ushtria Clirimtare E Kosoves. In English that's Kosovo Liberation Army, or KLA. Since NATO seized the Serbian province of Kosovo in June 1999, completely opening the border to Albania, the gangster-terrorists of the KLA have been installed as government leaders with the official approval of NATO and of the UN organization in Kosovo.

KLA terrorists have forced around 300,000 people to leave Kosovo - Serbs, 'Gypsies,' Slavic Muslims, ethnic Turks, Croatians, Jews and ethnic Albanians loyal to Yugoslavia. Those Serbs who have remained live under nightmare conditions.

The KLA has systematically attacked Serbian Orthodox churches, monasteries and graveyards. More than 110 Serbian Orthodox churches have been badly vandalized or reduced to rubble. [4]

These buildings were not only treasures of Christianity, masterpieces of an ancient Church; they were also works of art. They belonged to the world. And they were also at the heart of the culture of a people, the much maligned Serbs. Many of these churches had survived 500 years of Muslim rule under the Ottoman Empire. They survived Austrian rule. They survived World War II, when Kosovo was ruled by ethnic Albanian fascists allied with Mussolini and Hitler. They were destroyed under UN/NATO occupation.

Before you tell yourself, "It's not NATO's fault. They can't be everywhere," consider this fact: the terrorist KLA has been desecrating churches since NATO moved into Kosovo in June 1999 - that's four and a half years ago. Many churches were attacked more than once. Yet not one terrorist has been arrested, let alone put on trial. Not a single arrest.

Explosion in Serb churchyard in Urosevac

Tanjug - December 15, 2003
The Ras and Prizren Eparchy of the Serbian Orthodox Church on Monday strongly condemned the Sunday attack on the Church of St. Uros in Urosevac, in the south-eastern part of Kosovo. According to the statement made by the official representative of the Greek KFOR contingent, an unidentified person threw an explosive device, most likely a hand grenade, into the churchyard on Sunday evening, at about 8 p.m.

Og BBB (Bush-Blair-Bondevik) fortsetter å vandalisere kirker i Kosovo også inn i 2004:
Serbian Orthodox church of Sts. Peter and Paul in Gornja Brnjica, near Pristina, desecrated

ERP KIM Info Service Gracanica, January 6, 2004
Pristina parish priest Fr. Miroslav Popadic informed the Diocese of Raska-Prizren and Kosovo-Metohija that during his visit on Monday to the village of Gornja Brnjica, five kilometers north of Pristina, he found that the Church of Sts. Peter and Paul, built in 1975, had been desecrated.

"Unknown assailants probably tried to break down the metal doors which remained stuck so they then cut through three metal bars on the window, broke the window and entered the church," stated Fr. Miroslav. The priest and parishioners were consequently unable to enter the church through the door and immediately called members of the Kosovo Police Service, who checked the church to make sure it was not mined. Finally a Serb member of the KPS entered the church through the window and opened the door for the priest and the gathered villagers so they could inspect the church.

"The spectacle I found was horrible," the Pristina parish priest told the ERP KIM Info Service. "The vandals had scattered the holy chalice, the Holy Scriptures, the candle holders and icons on the floor of the church. After a detailed examination, I discovered that two silver candle holders were missing from the holy altar table, one icon lamp and all the money from sold candles and donations," said Fr. Miroslav.

Forty days ago unknown persons broke into the Church of Sts. Peter and Paul through the bell tower, climbing down the rope of the bell. On that occasion only the money was stolen but the objects within the church were not disturbed.

In the mixed village of Gornja Brnjica there is a total of 47 Serb families with 187 members. After June 1999 eight Serb families left their homes in the Albanian part of the village and for the past more than four years have been unable to return their homes for fear of attacks.

24.       duda
0 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 02:34 pm

An addition:

This site is becoming seriously nationalistic. I am inviting admins to lock this thread and to delete my membership. Being a member of a multinational family, I don't want to communicate with people who spread wrong and nationalistic ideas.

Thank you.

25.       Müjde
posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 02:45 pm

Duda,
I checked your profile and saw that you are a Serbian.
I dont have any problem with you and you never have a problem with me.
Welcome this site.We dont say that we dont like any other ideas but I want to remind 200.000 killed people,thousands of raped woman .
As being a Serbian, ıts not your crime but this happened . We worried for this.I am also worry for your churches.
I react the attidude of some members who just blame us.
Lets live in peace.....

26.       duda
0 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 03:00 pm

My point is that Turks have NOTHING with this. No one is blaming Turks, for God's sake! A part of my family is Turkish, my husband is a Croat, do I seem like a nationalist? But facts are facts. Serbs lived on Kosovo during the Ottoman times and after them. It was not Turks who raped our women. It was not Turks who destroyed old Serbian churches. And it was not Turks who killed Serbian people in hundreds and thousands. Turks and Serbs were victims TOGETHER during 90's.

And my reaction really has nothing with you. You can't know about some country only through foreign newspapers and sites. But then don't comment. I am not telling lies about Turkey and not offending Turkey; so you can at least do the same when it's about someone other's country. I want peace too and I am sick of nationalism. But from our sad experience I know that EVERY nationalism starts NOT from religion or nationality, but from FALSE FACTS. 200000 killed people? In Hiroshima maybe, yes.

Btw, if I payed attention at what foreign newspapers write about Turkey, I'd never be here.

27.       Müjde
posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 03:10 pm

I wont go on this argument but I dont know the events just from the newspapar.We have many immigrants in Turkey.I listened many stories. I am not talking about any countries on the world.I am talking about the places we know well......

28.       duda
0 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 03:23 pm

I understand, because we have over one million refugees here as well. But not only Serbs: there are Turks, Croats, Bosnian Muslims, Jews, Gipsies and Christian Albanians. All of them found shelter in Serbia. You can come any time and see yourself. And make a conclusion.

I think now you understand why I reacted so harshly. Serbia is a multinational and peaceful country, and no one here wants to be called an agressor.

An excerpt from some older newspapers:

Copyright 1986 The New York Times Company
The New York Times

April 28, 1986, Monday, Late City Final Edition

SECTION: Section A; Page 13, Column 1; Foreign Desk

LENGTH: 780 words

HEADLINE: IN ONE YUGOSLAV PROVINCE, SERBS FEAR THE ETHNIC ALBANIANS

BYLINE: By HENRY KAMM, Special to the New York Times

DATELINE: PRISTINA, Yugoslavia

BODY:
The ethnic Albanian majority in the autonomous province of Kosovo is feared by the minority population of Serbs and Montenegrins, who believe the Albanians are seeking to drive them out of the province.
A 1981 fire that gutted the medieval nunnery of the Serbian Orthodox Patriarchate in Pec, a center of Serbian national feeling, has been officially ascribed to bad construction.

An aged nun at the Patriarchate said she and her sisters were convinced that the fire had been set to chase them from Kosovo. But she said the nuns would never leave, and three Serbian or Montenegrin visitors agreed with her.

The provincial leadership, dominated by ethnic Albanians, has said it believes that a Serb grossly mutilated last May by a broken bottle inflicted his injuries himself while performing an auto-erotic act. The maiming of Djordje Martinovic, a 56-year-old farmer and father of three, has become the most widely discussed Yugoslav criminal case in years, debated in Parliament and covered in full detail by television and the press.

29.       duda
0 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 03:47 pm

Quoting Müjde:

Duda,
I checked your profile and saw that you are a Serbian.



Being from Serbia means being of any nationality. I can be a Serb, Croat, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Muslim Bosnian, Romanian, Wallachian, Turk, Egyptian, Albanian or of any other of 26 nationalities.

In veins of my two sons there are at least five bloods as much as I know for sure: Serbian, Turkish, Croatian, Bulgarian and Albanian.

So I will always raise my voice to defend any Serb, Turk, Croat, Bulgarian, Albanian or anyone else. But never while he is killing my countrymen because of his religious or political aims.


I recommend this link. But the reading can last very long.

http://www.kosovo.net/news/archive/index.html

30.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Feb 2008 Tue 04:09 pm

Quoting duda:


Being from Serbia means being of any nationality. I can be a Serb, Croat, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Muslim Bosnian, Romanian, Wallachian, Turk, Egyptian, Albanian or of any other of 26 nationalities.


I don't understand. You speak the same language as Serbs, Croats and Bosnian and yet you consider yourself as different nations. Why not Muslim Serbs instead of Bosnian Muslims for example? And why was that hate from the Serbs towards Bosnian Muslims during the civil war of 1990s?

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