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The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices
(140 Messages in 14 pages - View all)
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90.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:03 pm

Quoting peace train:

Are you saying most of the 1.2b Muslims (half being female) are intolerant? Intolerant of what? Continually having words twisted. Yes that's deliberately argumentative, it goes on a lot here.

Or are you saying the governments that oppress them are intolerant? The governments/leaders don't equate to most of 1.2b.

I'm genuinely unsure of the figures and how you determine intolerance.

Please help me out.


Can someone tell me if she is blind? Maybe she can't read? :-S Maybe she is censored at home as to what news she can read.... Someone help me out please....

91.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:05 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting thehandsom:


Canli,
Be careful over there
Because you are fueling the suspicions that Kuran was written by looking at certain time, at certain people.



ohhh handsom lol
İt was reasoning with certian kind of people at certain time
But the same reason is valid for all times
Here,D_K is not muslim and she has reached the same conclusion
That its not preferable to have more than 1 wife
So,as we are in our time,and as D_K is not even muslim,so i guess that proves my point even more


But canli
You just gave the reason that

Qur'an has been sent in a time where men can have many,MANY women,as a wife,as maid,as b**chs
So it wouldnt be really acceptable from them to say Only 1 wife allowed
So ALLAH left it to them but made it hard for them too


But we know that those reasons are 'not valid anymore'
How come it proves your point?
lol



handsommmm lol
You actually finding more easier to ask me than to read what i've written...and make me type even more lol

Ok,here we go,even D_K not Muslim,and did NOT live in that past time,but reading Qur'an made her understand that,it is prefered to have 1 wife ONLY

And that was the same massage ALLAH sent to them by saying,'and you wont be capable of doing it '

So now,men...SMART MEN,actually dont need to try to marry 4 wives and then find out they cant be just to all of them...now they can read Qur'an,think and understand it...cant they ?!

92.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:10 pm

Canli... what's wrong with muslims then - non-muslim men and women figured out a long time ago that it's wrong to marry more then one woman... :-S in fact, the Bible was written before the Koran and they didn't advocate for polygamy, why did the allknowing God make it backwards for muslims?

93.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:20 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Canli... what's wrong with muslims then - non-muslim men and women figured out a long time ago that it's wrong to marry more then one woman... :-S in fact, the Bible was written before the Koran and they didn't advocate for polygamy, why did the allknowing God make it backwards for muslims?


Because in certain cases it be a must...so it must be put in some formal way to organize it
As when and how to do it,its conditions and so,

For example,a woman is very sick... paralyzed or something,and staying in bed,with no hope in healing
By time,her husband want to marry another woman,so,he either divorce her,and not looking after her
Or marry another one,and still marrying this woman ..

When in war,the number of women would be treble or even more the number of men or something
So,if every man marry just 1 woman,that would leave lots of women without marriage.

But..what is happening in some İslamic countries now,men marry more than 1 with no reason to justify it....!

İ guess its what i can least describe it as MANLY thing !

94.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:22 pm

Quoting CANLI:


So now,men...SMART MEN,actually dont need to try to marry 4 wives and then find out they cant be just to all of them...now they can read Qur'an,think and understand it...cant they ?!


But Canli,
What you are saying is that that sura is 'irrelevant' for today.
am I right?
Again, it will fuel into the speculation that 'it was written for its time only' ..
dont you agree?

95.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:24 pm

Already answered this in my above post

96.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 10:29 pm

Quoting CANLI:

For example,a woman is very sick... paralyzed or something,and staying in bed,with no hope in healing
By time,her husband want to marry another woman,so,he either divorce her,and not looking after her
Or marry another one,and still marrying this woman ..


this is absolutely ridiculous. when a woman is sick and her husband goes off to another woman, it only shows that the guy is a dick and an asshole. he is betraying his wife when she needs him most. you are completely ignoring the woman's feelings and assuming that the guy always has to have a wife. it's a very sick point of view.

Quoting CANLI:

When in war,the number of women would be treble or even more the number of men or something
So,if every man marry just 1 woman,that would leave lots of women without marriage.


you are assuming again that a woman HAS to marry, otherwise, her existance is worthless. that is obviously a dreadful, horrible way to think.

Quoting CANLI:

İ guess its what i can least describe it as MANLY thing !


it is a "manly" thing, because we live in a patriarchy when men are allowed to do whatever they want, even when that is humiliating or degrading to women. they are the upper cast that holds almost all the power and they are abusing the lower cast (women).

97.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 11:04 pm

Thoug I completely disagree with Canlı and really do not want to be seen as a reason why the Quran was written well, I have to say I am so happy to see that this discussion is going peacefully


Canlı, thehandsome, catwoman:

98.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 11:24 pm

Same for you Deli Kizin!

99.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 11:57 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

I have to say I am so happy to see that this discussion is going peacefully
Canlı,thehandsome, catwoman :



Same is here D_K ,thehandsome, catwoman

100.       CANLI
5084 posts
 09 Mar 2008 Sun 12:22 am

Quoting catwoman:


this is absolutely ridiculous. when a woman is sick and her husband goes off to another woman, it only shows that the guy is a dick and an asshole. he is betraying his wife when she needs him most. you are completely ignoring the woman's feelings and assuming that the guy always has to have a wife. it's a very sick point of view.



We are not living in a romantic world cat,as much as i wish it but its not
Tell me about the percentage of men that is this stiuation,of his wife long time sickness will be devoted to her and wont even cheat her with another woman ?!
How many men will not satisfy their sexual desires in any way for a life time and be loyal to theier wives ?
There will be just 2 options,
Men will only be allowed to 1 wife,and in this case either he cheat on her ''then he will technically have another woman in his life,so its same as marriage except she doesnt know !'
Or he will kick her out in the streets,and in this case she will have more than her feelings to worry about !

Or,he will be allowed to marry another woman,and keep his wife .

İ am not assuming that the guy always has to have a wife,in İslam,guys cant,and shouldnt satisfy their sexual desires out of marriage
So would you assume men in those conditions wont be satisfying their sexual desires at all ?!


Quoting catwoman:


you are assuming again that a woman HAS to marry, otherwise, her existance is worthless. that is obviously a dreadful, horrible way to think.



Dear cat,im not assuming again women HAS to marry,i used the marriage concept so we dont have to go into further explanations that i thought were clear.
Women just like me have needs too,and in such war time,big one like i assumed the number of women are treble the number of men,so ...?

PS:we can talk about this more further in PM if you didnt get what i meant.

Quoting catwoman:


it is a "manly" thing, because we live in a patriarchy when men are allowed to do whatever they want, even when that is humiliating or degrading to women. they are the upper cast that holds almost all the power and they are abusing the lower cast (women).



İ just cant blame it on the men only,i actually blame it on the women too who let them
Who accepted it
Who didnt say 'GET LOST'
Thats why education and independency are very important to women
İt doesnt have to be as you have there,at the age of 18s leave the house,NO
She can even has her own independency inside her home,between her family.

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