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The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices
(140 Messages in 14 pages - View all)
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50.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 04:23 am

Quoting thehandsom:


You are either very naive or you have no idea what you are talking about?


Or you handsom,dont know what you are talking about

51.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 04:34 am

Quoting thehandsom:


Do you really know what they are learning there?
Do you really know how islam treats woman?
As a woman do you really EXCEPT the secondry role comparing to a man? Dont you have any idea that Sheria does not not go with secularism?
Do they teach darwin there for example? do they teach evolution theory? do they teach other religions?
I have no idea where you are going with your arguments..
You are either very naive or you have no idea what you are talking about?



Do you know what are they learning there ?!
İ dont believe you have been to one ,do you ?!
Do you really know how İslam treat's women ?
Do you know how MEN treats women then ?!
Women in the West are not Muslims are they ?!
Who said woman have the secondry role compairing to men ?
Only women who ACCEPT it do

But the problem is not in İslam,the problem is in men's mentality !

There is İmam here published his opinion about how men SHOULD help women
And how Rasul ALLAH SAV was helping his wives in the house work even they were house wives
And if men can afford they SHOULD bring someone to help their wives.

Do you know how was men reaction ?!
They said that man is insane !
Even he is a reliable imam !
They said if they help their wives,that is A FAVOR,not a DUTY !

HELL,NO,it is a DUTY !

So,if women accept it....they only have themselves to blame,NOT İSLAM!

52.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 04:56 am

Quoting thehandsom:


Canli
It is very interesting what you are saying above..
But, lets take only one verse..'cutting hand of the one who steals'
-Am I right to think that it is in Qouran itself which was sent by GOD?
-Are you saying that as a good muslim you will NOT follow what it says?
-If you are free 'to follow or not' on one verse, what about the others?
as an example:
-Can we say that 'women covering their hair' verse is not compatible with the current time?



There is much difference handsom between the 2 things,
First one,is a penalty ALLAH stat it for the ruler to decide who steal and deserve it.
So,in Ömer RA incident,the ruler couldnt provide food to his people,so he actually cant punish them over stealing to eat !
This penalty is not for me to use,it is for the ruler.
As for Hijab,its order from ALLAH to women to cover their hairs
So again nothing would stop women from following it...
Unless its something serious...
Like,if wearing hijab can give her any medical problem
Wearing hijab would harm her anyway 'as in a country who chase Muslims for examples and kill''...something like that...
But to take off hijab because its not fashinable this year ?!
Nope,its not allowed

53.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 04:58 am

canli..I am promising to come back..

54.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 05:00 am

Will hold you to it ...nite

55.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 05:25 am

Quoting thehandsom:


Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting peace train:


Deary me Catwoman, you are generalizing. I know of an Islamic Girl's High School, attached to a Mosque. It is fast becoming a very well respected school and the Head Teacher (Principal) encourages interaction with other local schools.

The Mosque is being rebuilt. I believe some money (for school and mosque) has come from a member of the Royal Family in Saudi. I believe one of the trustees of the school is the Muslim gentleman who is in the British House of Lords . . the one who recently obtained the release of the British teacher who unwittingly allowed children to call a teddy Muhammed.

New Muslims and older Muslim ladies who never had the opportunities before, are welcomed with kindness and grace. Nothing is too much trouble and money is not asked for. I guess donations they receive cover this. The only point I will criticize them for is . . . the bleeping homework!


Do you really know what they are learning there?
Do you really know how islam treats woman?
As a woman do you really EXCEPT the secondry role comparing to a man? Dont you have any idea that Sheria does not not go with secularism?
Do they teach darwin there for example? do they teach evolution theory? do they teach other religions?
I have no idea where you are going with your arguments..
You are either very naive or you have no idea what you are talking about?



The school's are inspected by the Government department, OFSTED.

There are Roman Catholic Schools, mixed and single sex. There are Church of England Schools, mixed and single sex. There are Methodist schools etc. There are single sex Grammar Schools (I went to one of these). There are single sex private schools, single sex Public schools. Religion based schools are nothing new in the UK. Some research suggests that single sex teaching is more effective.

I teach in a primary school and just under 50% of the children are Muslim. Many children move to our school from state primary schools that just happen to be 100% Muslim because they want their children exposed to a variety of cultures. We have Indian, Pakistani, Iraqi, Iranian, Polish, Croatian an "White British" children.

It's all about choice. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if some non muslims started to try and get their children into the Islamic schools because some of the high schools are poor. There is research showing that White British Boys" are at risk of under achieving and becoming disaffected.

The curriculum for England and Wales is The National Curriculum plus The Curriculum for Religious Education. Each Education Authority can choose to follow the Government's Education and Skills Dept. QCA syllabus or replace or supplement with their own Agreed Syllabus, but if they do this it must reflect the main objectives of the QCA Scheme of Work.

The teaching of Religious Education (not Instruction) is a legal requirement from age 5 years to 16. Obviously Religious schools will also give some instruction in their faith. Collective worship is a legal requirement in all state schools. It is usually daily and broadly Christian based.

I co ordinate RE in my Primary School. I have responsibility for the Scheme of Work and lesson planning through out the school (3-11 years). There are 6 half terms in a year and we have a 2 year cycle. 50% of the half terms must cover Christianity then 3 other faiths are covered in a year/ Islam is taught one half term each year through out the school. In KS1 Hinduism and Judaism are taught alternate years. In KS2 Sikhism and Buddhism are taught alternate years.

There is a rule whereby children may be exempted from RE at the request of parents. This has happened twice in my school in the last 15 years that I have been there. Once by a Jehova's Witness family and once by a Pagan family. They were also exempted from collective worship. Similarly, Staff may also exempt themselves from teaching RE. This has happened once to my knowledge, by an Aetheist.

I have always found that the Muslim children, in general, take the most interest in the RE lessons.

Sheria as is generally understood, was not what was being "mulled" over here by the Bish. Don't panic.

I am an independant woman my dear handsom. Always have been. I was the breadwinner in my marriage for 8 years whilst my husband studied to be an architect I AM A MATRIARCH . . . so watch it mate!!!!

You mentioned thev Headscarf in another thread. I believe this is historically a cultural phenomenon not a Muslim one. I believe women should be allowed to choose whether to wear it or not. Either way, they shouldn't be judged . . . it is not the way for a Muslim to judge his/her fellow Muslim, only Allah can do that. I found this link some time ago:
http://www.free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm

The issue of covering the hair is much debated, especially what, or what isn't said about it in Qur'an. It is only for Allah to judge an individual's decision.

I mentioned once before, I know a lot of Muslim couples and in all those marriages, the woman is the dominant partner. Some wear the scarf, some don't. In Turkey my married friends seem to be more equal partners and the women do not wear the scarf.

I realise there are places in the world where attitudes to women need to change, but this cannot be done overnight.

Handsom . . . I think I spoke too much. That's women for you!! Oh and yes, I realise, some women in the world don't get that luxury. Kinda makes some of the bickering that goes on here look self indulgent don't ya think?



Oh and Handsom?


Au Revoir but not Goodbye

56.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 06:03 am

It is to late for me to answer
But I will be back..lol
good night..
ps..I still think that you dont have much idea what you are talking about..You dont know islam..

57.       KeithL
1455 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 06:54 am

Quoting catwoman:


I love this guy - Ed Husain! I wish all muslims were like him



is it acceptable to ask if all blacks could be like Bill Cosby?

58.       KeithL
1455 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 06:57 am

Quoting teaschip1:

Quote:

Would you recognize a rough diamond?

Absolutely.. lol I'm still trying to find a liberal muslim here in Ohio..but no such luck..



What about Dr. Mehmet Oz? Too radical for you?

59.       KeithL
1455 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 06:59 am

Quoting catwoman:

There is no doubt that sensationalistic media producing for dumb masses is skewing the picture, BUT, alameda, liberal muslims are a rarity and that's not a media truth, that's reality. I am looking around and I don't see many of them. With all the crazy stuff going on in europe and around the world, we should know about those liberals if they were there. But none of them are protesting to all the atrocities commited against humanity that's happening even in their own circles.



its like 60's and 70's TV...all the criminals were black and hispanic. All the good guys were white. I have found today's Archie Bunker and he is here at TC carrying a purse...

60.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 08 Mar 2008 Sat 07:23 am

Quoting KeithL:

Quoting catwoman:

There is no doubt that sensationalistic media producing for dumb masses is skewing the picture, BUT, alameda, liberal muslims are a rarity and that's not a media truth, that's reality. I am looking around and I don't see many of them. With all the crazy stuff going on in europe and around the world, we should know about those liberals if they were there. But none of them are protesting to all the atrocities commited against humanity that's happening even in their own circles.



its like 60's and 70's TV...all the criminals were black and hispanic. All the good guys were white. I have found today's Archie Bunker and he is here at TC carrying a purse...



Alf Garnett lives! Nice one Keith. I remember the British version.

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