Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkey

Turkey

Add reply to this discussion
Moderators: libralady, sonunda
ANDIMIZ! (Student Vow)
(179 Messages in 18 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
90.       _Quetzalcoaltl_
0 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 11:59 pm

I wanna add smth to this subject:

"Türk'e kefen diken karşısında bizi bulur."

This student vow is our traditional features of Turkish educational system and applied in primary schools in order to strenghen the identites of the Turkish posterities. whether u like it or not, u have to show respect this tradition.

the most powerful states in the world are nationalist states. I lived in Paris and Marseille for a long time and observed that French people are very nationalistic, and they reject and ignore the people who are from different countries, and they believe that French nationalism help them to evaluate their identities as well.

Hence, nationalism is a necessity for the states to protect their ID's. Essentially, French Revolution in 1789 was occured in the centre of Europe, so what happened?

the nationalism style of Atatürk is very peaceful, creative, helpful, and innovative. Regardless the ethnic origin, if someone who likes his/her flag, country, culture, he/she's a Turk, that's all... Turks, Kurds, Cerkes, Laz, Armenians, Greeks in Turkey are all sisters and brothers and we live in Turkey peacefully, without any discriminative provocations. However, USA and EU makes agitations to divide the boundaries of Turkey with using ethnic identities in Turkey, and we are aware of these ambushes. (Real Turks must be aware of these kinda ambushes).

Whether u accept or dont accept, you must show your respects to our national identities. Turkey is belonged to Turks, that's all...

look what Atatürk's saying:

"Dünyanın bize hürmet etmesini istiyorsak evvela bu hürmeti, hissen, fiilen, fikren bütün hâl ve hareketlerimizle gösterelim. Bilelim ki milli benliğini bulmayan milletler, başka milletlerin esiridir."

22 March 1924.

any questions?

91.       KeithL
1455 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:08 am

Quoting catwoman:


Keith, how do these two posts go together? You said that you believe in complete free speech, even if it makes you a fascist, but you condemn it when people express their disregard for national traditions?



Believing in free speech does not mean that I have to believe or even respect what others say. the Nazi's march every year in Skokie, IL (a large Jewish Community). They are exercising their free speech. Do I respect their message? No.

So, to my point. The free spirits in America that want to ban Christmas Trees, Nativity scenes and yes....the Pledge of Allegiance, I hear them, but I don't respect them.

My fascist statement was a joke.




(maybe)

92.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:08 am

I just want to add one thing: French nationalism isnt really comparable to the nationalism you find in other West-European countries.. You are right, they are strong nationalistic and dont easily accept other people. Actually, I have been there on holidays many many times, and even if they spoke English, they just refuse to speak anything but French with me lol


And when Atatürk said 'Ne mutlu Türküm diyene', I am sure he meant nationality the way you try to describe: peaceful, with space for all ethnicities united in one Turkey. But it is put a little out of context by many ülkücü Im afraid


As a last: I respect your traditions, but that doesn't mean I agree with them And if you want a country to improve, you have to question your own traditions: what is good about them and what needs change? How can we improve our country, without loosing touch with our inheritage? But I dont think that is disrespectful. I think that is what Atatürk wanted: a people that grows to the future and moves along with the time.

93.       catwoman
8933 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:10 am

Quoting _Quetzalcoaltl_:

Regardless the ethnic origin, if someone who likes his/her flag, country, culture, he/she's a Turk, that's all... Turks, Kurds, Cerkes, Laz, Armenians, Greeks in Turkey are all sisters and brothers and we live in Turkey peacefully, without any discriminative provocations. However, USA and EU makes agitations to divide the boundaries of Turkey with using ethnic identities in Turkey, and we are aware of these ambushes. (Real Turks must be aware of these kinda ambushes).


I think your last sentence is where racism seeps in. You are only giving an illusion that everybody is respected under turkish nationalism, in reality, you are only accepting an extreme circle of what you call "real" turks as legitimate, all other Turks should either do as you say or they will be labeled as anti-Turkish.

94.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:12 am

Quoting KeithL:

So, to my point. The free spirits in America that want to ban Christmas Trees, Nativity scenes and yes....the Pledge of Allegiance, I hear them, but I don't respect them.



I just wonder how you get these together? I dont know the Pledge of Allegiance, but let's say Andımız, Christmas Tree and Nativity. I'm not a Christian, but I would want for the Christmas tree and the Nativity to stay, but Im not a supporter of the Ant.

Or is this a specific three-combination of a certain group in the States?

95.       catwoman
8933 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:14 am

Quoting KeithL:

Believing in free speech does not mean that I have to believe or even respect what others say. the Nazi's march every year in Skokie, IL (a large Jewish Community). They are exercising their free speech. Do I respect their message? No.

So, to my point. The free spirits in America that want to ban Christmas Trees, Nativity scenes and yes....the Pledge of Allegiance, I hear them, but I don't respect them.

My fascist statement was a joke.




(maybe)


I see. So you're saying that people here who disagree with you have ideas that are equally bad as the Nazis in Skokie or those who oppose Christmas Trees and Nativity scenes?

96.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:16 am

Quoting catwoman:

I think your last sentence is where racism seeps in. You are only giving an illusion that everybody is respected under turkish nationalism, in reality, you are only accepting an extreme circle of what you call "real" turks as legitimate, all other Turks should either do as you say or they will be labeled as anti-Turkish.



+1

97.       KeithL
1455 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:16 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting KeithL:

Believing in free speech does not mean that I have to believe or even respect what others say. the Nazi's march every year in Skokie, IL (a large Jewish Community). They are exercising their free speech. Do I respect their message? No.

So, to my point. The free spirits in America that want to ban Christmas Trees, Nativity scenes and yes....the Pledge of Allegiance, I hear them, but I don't respect them.

My fascist statement was a joke.




(maybe)


I see. So you're saying that people here who disagree with you have ideas that are equally bad as the Nazis in Skokie or those who oppose Christmas Trees and Nativity scenes?



No. Not even close. Using the extreme to make a point.

98.       catwoman
8933 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:30 am

Quoting KeithL:

No. Not even close. Using the extreme to make a point.


Oh, ok, that's good . Keith, I would like to see you trying to understand our point of view before you decide to disrespect it. Seriously, isn't that what you are asking us to do? You are not going to do any good for Turkey or Islam if you disrespect views you disagree with. If you display understanding, the other side will also make that effort.

99.       _Quetzalcoaltl_
0 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:31 am

u misunderstood my sentence. "Real Turks" implies the ppl who identify themselves as Turk, love livin in Turkey, defending Turkey... etc, regardless the ethnicity. that's all... where's the racist seep?

If u read the expressions of Atatürk carefully, u can clearly infer that there's no existence of "westernization". Atatürk's aim is to reach the contemporary civilization level and then to exceed it. The key of reaching and exceeding is "work, work, work efficiently, and follow the developments in the modern world." Besides, being aware of the ambushes to the motherland. that's all...

civilization can be located in the West or East. It doesnt matter. Our aim is to exceed the civilization level, and westernization can't provide Turkey to be successful, but Turkey should follow the developments in the West. Look what Atatürk's saying:

"Acılar gördük. Bunun sebebi, dünyanın vaziyetini anlayamadığımız içindir."

Atatürk used the nationalistic movements in French Revolution and adapted it to the new state. So, Turkish ppl became "Millet" and they gave up being "Ümmet". Ümmet sisteminden, millet sistemine geçtik böylece. Hence, it's very healthy for the Turkish ppl due to the becoming of "Millet". that's all...

Atatürk's expressions and revolutions can't be understood and emphasized without reading, making investigations from the creditable sources.

Ülkücü ppl betray the nationalism structure of Turkey, and no relationship with Atatürk's nationalism style. So, we dont have to take them seriously. They are the shame for Turkey and they always make agitations and chaos in Turkey. the last work of them is killing Hrant Dink. it's a shame for Turkey and dirt the image of Turkey in the world. I'm still castigating that event...

that's all..

100.       KeithL
1455 posts
 02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:31 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting KeithL:

No. Not even close. Using the extreme to make a point.


Oh, ok, that's good . Keith, I would like to see you trying to understand our point of view before you decide to disrespect it. Seriously, isn't that what you are asking us to do? You are not going to do any good for Turkey or Islam if you disrespect views you disagree with. If you display understanding, the other side will also make that effort.



What have I disrespected?

(179 Messages in 18 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
Individually Tailored Private Turkish Less...
sumrutemur: Do you want to learn Turkish? Do you want to improve your speaking, wr...
Short English>Turkish plz
Tazx1: Please can a Native speaker of Turkish translate the following sentenc...
E-T: Fasten your seatbelts this is going t...
harp00n: Emniyet ... ... bu; cehenneme yolculuk olacak.
What is the difference between this 2 sent...
harp00n: Actually, there are no difference between them.
Izmir?
og2009: Thank you very much : Çok ... ederiz
Alevi song translation?
Roja: I liked this a lot, but failed to understand some parts. Could anyone ...
Learn Turkish
ani_istanbul: Small groups or 1-1 * Classes also available on ... * Qualified, ......
Aşağıdaki cümlede \"istersen\"in ne an...
BlackDays: Literally it means "if you ... But we sometimes use that ... like in t...
T-E: gisganiyeah and gidiyeah
mrdr: Hi, These are regional dialect and are not good Turkish. Eko...
10 Kasım
Leo S: "Eğer bir gün benim ... bilimle ters ... bilimi ... "If somed...
T-E
og2009: ... BAŞLICA TARİHSEL SORUN ve ... Bil...
E-T: You have to consider the effect it wi...
tunci: I think ... ... or ... kişilere ... would be more relevant w...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Add thumbnails like this to your site
Most commented
To be

Turkish lesson by admin
Level: beginner