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ANDIMIZ! (Student Vow)
(179 Messages in 18 pages - View all)
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30.       libralady
5152 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 12:18 pm

Quoting janissary:

This vow (Andımız) is read by all primary school students in every morning before lesson:


ANDIMIZ
"Türküm, doğruyum, çalışkanım,

İlkem; küçüklerimi korumak, büyüklerimi saymak, yurdumu, milletimi özümden çok sevmektir.

Ülküm; yükselmek, ileri gitmektir.

Ey Büyük Atatürk!

Açtığın yolda, gösterdiğin hedefe durmadan yürüyeceğime ant içerim.

Varlığım Türk varlığına armağan olsun.

Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!"


here is a video of students

My Webpage



I personally think it is narrow minded to start a thread like this and then not expect some negative response, then claim that the site is anti-Turkish values. but looking at most of the answers, people (non-Turks) are agreeing with you and see nothing wrong with it.

My view is that this sort of thing belongs with the Arc; why expose young children to this? It has reverberations of nationalism and nationalism breeds racism, hatred and violence. This sort of attitude is not good for tourism, a thriving, growing industry.

31.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 12:23 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

I see nothing wrong about a vow like this at school, it is a matter of tradition so I don't think this is what makes nationalists. Some countries don't have vows like this and still there are nationalists.

I believe patriotism is a good thing - a vow doesn't teach it for sure, but gives a sense of belonging. I disagree with any kind of religious lines to be repeated, but if it's just a pledge to your country then what's wrong with it?



I like such traditions, as I never had them in my school, and I sometimes miss the feeling of really belonging to my country. I just think it is a bit over the top to recite this every day. In my opinion it needs small modification, but apart from that it's a nice tradition.

Maybe in my mind it is just an add-up: a Turkish vow and religious education in Turkish schools. You say you disagree with religious lines to be repeated, and I agree with you. However, Turkish educational system has compulsory religion lessons, based on Suni Islam. As a Christian, you can write a letter to principal and you will be taken off the class. But if your parents are muslim and YOU are Christian, it might become difficult. The worst problem is when you are Alevi: you cannot be excluded from religion class, eventhough they won't teach your children the practises you have faith in. The only way to get out of class is to write a letter, stating you are not a Muslim. But.. in your opinion, you ARE.Just a different group.

Maybe that is why I don't like it, the stress on the history, Turkishness and religion in schools.

But the tradition in itself, is something I agree, that should stay.

32.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:02 pm

This pledge has been said by the 7 years olds 10s of years in Turkey.
After all those years, the generations who grew up with 'andimiz' (and of course with 'ne mutlu turkum diyene' as well) just managed to create the quality of living standards 'just above' African countries.!!!
So basically they are empty and they are not working.
(personally, instead of brain washing with people with empty slogans, it is better if we taught people why holland generates 7 times more money from their agricultural product than turkey or why and how they make nearly 10 billion dollars each year from the export of tulips with 15 million people where as we just managed the same amount from tourism several years ago with 80 million people!! )

Anyways, about andimiz.

I doubt the validity of it and also I doubt the relevance of it as well as I find it quite disrespectful to my country's citizens.
It is against everything about multiculturalism.
There are not Turks only in Turkey.
There are people they dont want to call themselves turk and they are the people of Turkey.
They are turkish.
They dont call themselves Turk.
And everybody should respect this.

ps..I think recently the minister of education said something about it too.
I think he argued that "putting foreign children (like germans, english etc) into line of assembly every morning and force them to say 'I am a Turk' as a first line would be forcing them to lie".
It is, to be honest,a confession that we have been forcing our own people to lie for a long time
And nobody should say that "'I am Turk' in that context does not not mean turk as ethnic race"..please. we should not lie to ourselves

33.       libralady
5152 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:08 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

This pledge has been said by the 7 years olds 10s of years in Turkey.
After all those years, the generations who grew up with 'andimiz' (and of course with 'ne mutlu turkum diyene' as well) just managed to create the quality of living standards 'just above' African countries.!!!
So basically they are empty and they are not working.
(personally, instead of brain washing with people with empty slogans, it is better if we taught people why holland generates 7 times more money from their agricultural product than turkey or why and how they make nearly 10 billion dollars each year from the export of tulips with 15 million people where as we just managed the same amount from tourism several years ago with 80 million people!! )

Anyways, about andimiz.

I doubt the validity of it and also I doubt the relevance of it as well as I find it quite disrespectful to my country's citizens.
It is against everything about multiculturalism.
There are not Turks only in Turkey.
There are people they dont want to call themselves turk and they are the people of Turkey.
They are turkish.
They dont call themselves Turk.
And everybody should respect this.

ps..I think recently the minister of education said something about it too.
I think he argued that "putting foreign children (like germans, english etc) into line of assembly every morning and force them to say 'I am a Turk' as a first line would be forcing them to lie".
It is, to be honest,a confession that we have been forcing our own people to lie for a long time
And nobody should say that "'I am Turk' in that context does not not mean turk as ethnic race"..please. we should not lie to ourselves



Especially when tulips come from Turkey originally! (or was that your point? )

34.       Lapinkulta
0 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:14 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting thehandsom:

This vow (Andımız) should be abolished..
It is quite embarressing!!



I agree. Or at least it should be modified and presented less frequent. What's wrong with just saying it at the start of a new schoolyear. Or each semester if you really can't help it.



any words in this vow are lie...so modification is not necessary..

35.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:15 pm

Quoting Lapinkulta:

Quoting thehandsom:

This vow (Andımız) should be abolished..
It is quite embarressing!!


go to an cliff and jump down...


yes it should be abolished..
And anybody who thinks that it is very important, should be sent to ergenekon..lol

36.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:17 pm

I am proud of my ancestors and I don't mind if they were as poor as African people or as rich as the Swedish. Thanks to the lives of hundreds of thousands of hungry, battered troops that defended their motherland at Dardanelles could we survive as a nation fighting against the English, the French, the Italians, the Greeks and the Indians all at once and at a time when there was no money in the government's coffers. The leader of these people produced a new republic from the ashes of the past. This new republic achieved an unprecedented transformation process which saw the collapse of old institutions, a destruction of the superstitions and quantum leaps in all spheres of life. We needed to be oriented towards a target and we needed to be polarized politically to make that possible. This is a known process.

We know all the heroes of other nations including imaginary ones like Superman or the 50's heroes like Montgomery and Patton, let us not forget Stallone and his
American propoganda series. Those are so comical, in Turkey only comedy versions of them are shot.

Our nationalists are fewer, calmer and essentialy more moderate than the US nationalists I have come accross on the net. For every one hundred ultranationalists with a racial discourse we have just one or two.

37.       janissary
0 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:18 pm

European ppl and even some tukish ppl who live in europe see turkish ppl ignorant. they look us from top. that s why they always give advices. they just talk and talk nothing else. We wont educate our children as u want. coz we see turkish children who educated in europe. I know all of you are very small minority, think like that. ur type of persons can say one day, this flag is old, we should find another new one. coz it wont mean anything to them. but it does too much us. being a part of this country is not easy. and we know this, we can give our life without any hesitate when needed.

38.       Lapinkulta
0 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:42 pm

Quoting janissary:

European ppl and even some tukish ppl who live in europe see turkish ppl ignorant. they look us from top. that s why they always give advices. they just talk and talk nothing else. We wont educate our children as u want. coz we see turkish children who educated in europe. I know all of you are very small minority, think like that. ur type of persons can say one day, this flag is old, we should find another new one. coz it wont mean anything to them. but it does too much us. being a part of this country is not easy. and we know this, we can give our life without any hesitate when needed.

39.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 01:42 pm

Quoting janissary:

European ppl and even some tukish ppl who live in europe see turkish ppl ignorant. they look us from top. that s why they always give advices.



Actually it is you who used this word for the first time here in the context of Turks I think. The fact that some people don't agree with you doesn't mean they think you're ignorant or that they look down on you.

If you're free to say you are in favour of the pledge, they have the right to be against it.

40.       catwoman
8933 posts
 01 Apr 2008 Tue 02:45 pm

Quoting libralady:

I personally think it is narrow minded to start a thread like this and then not expect some negative response, then claim that the site is anti-Turkish values. but looking at most of the answers, people (non-Turks) are agreeing with you and see nothing wrong with it.

My view is that this sort of thing belongs with the Arc; why expose young children to this? It has reverberations of nationalism and nationalism breeds racism, hatred and violence. This sort of attitude is not good for tourism, a thriving, growing industry.


I completely agree with Libralady! but I also think Daydreamer is always right... which leaves me a bit confused... :-S lol

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