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Role of the Polish in Holocaust; Why blame only the Germans?
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| 10. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:05 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer:
Yes, I know Kurdish is not banned anymore. But it was, just as Kurds were considered 'Mountain Turks' by your government. We were discussing past issues and I thought it was clear. |
I have never heard an official saying Kurds are mountain Turks. Never have there been such a statement in the text books either. Now if you still think that the government considered them like that in the past, I can`t change your opinion. I can say that the American government considers the Iraqis animals, and guess what, no one can refute this idea.
And if we`re discussing the past issues, why don`t we still accuse America of slavery, as it did happen in the past, or why don`t we talk about how the Kurds massacred tens of thousands of Alevi Turkmen at the time of Yavuz? it did happen.
Quote: And it's the same story over and over again - write that Turks are not very fair to Kurds and you'll end up being accused of supporting terrorist organisations. I have written many times in this site that I am against it and no matter how much you try, you won't make me one. If you consider things black or white only, then give yourself a break, draw a few deep breaths and calm down. The world is never black or white. People who consider Turkish policy towards Kurds unjust are not necessarily PKK supporters. I don't know anyone in this site who would be one! It's just you and 2 other people who accuse people of it. |
I didn`t accuse you of being a pkk supporter, but whoever says that Kurdish is banned in Turkey simply sounds like a pkk propagandist as it is pure lie and misionformation. You didn`t say that it was a past issue in your first post. I don`t know what happened in the past. I`m 21 yrs old, and I have never witnessed those who have spoken Kurdish in public being arrested or dumped into the midnight express jail before in my life time.(and i live in a place that is mostly popullated by Kurds)
why do you accuse me of this thing, but not Americans of slavery, or your people of the crusader terrorism if they are all past issues?
If we were to deal with the past issues this much, I would have very nice reasons to kill some Kurds, as they did this to my ancestors some 500 hundred years ago.
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I'm glad you asked this question. Like I said many times, I am against US intervention in Iraq. And, yes, I call it an act of attack, not defence. I disagree with our government sending our boys on this war.
Congratulate for killing each Iraqi kid? Please! How did you come up with this idea? Grow up already. That we see faults in Turkish government doesn't mean we're pro-murder. That's a very weak line of reasoning. I'd say you're too full of hate towards everyone who disagrees with you that you can't be objective.
You started an argument basing on an article from 2001 that had already been dealt with. The matter is solved and closed. I informed you about the result of an investigation and you still wouldn't take logical and truthful explanation. I'm sorry. I know you wanted to see that all governments are like yours but it's not true. If you want to insult Poles, show our mentality. Don't go into things that are easy to prove you wrong. proven wrong you start accusing me of supporting PKK and killing children. Now, that's way NOT logical and has nothing to do with Jedwabne Massacre. |
Ok then the only responsible for the 600,000 murdered Iraqi civilians is the American troops, since the Poles are there for just minor tasks like cooking for the Americans, cleaning their dirty clothes, entertaining them telling Polish jokes etc. Swallow it or not, call it a genocide or not, that doesn`t change the crimes commited in Iraq and your government is a part of that crime.
I`m not trying to insult Poles, why would I? I don`t even know where Poland is exactly. I`m just trying to show how you are being unfair when accusing the others of silly things.
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| 11. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:31 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika: I`m just trying to show how you are being unfair when accusing the others of silly things. |
What a strange way of thinking 
So, in your mind, nobody has the right to criticise another country, if their own country has a history of wrongdoing? 
Let all murder, killing, genocide, torture, injustice, rape and racism continue freely for surely nobody in the world has the right to criticise (as decreed by tamikidakika) 
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| 12. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:35 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika: Ok then the only responsible for the 600,000 murdered Iraqi civilians is the American troops, since the Poles are there for just minor tasks like cooking for the Americans, cleaning their dirty clothes, entertaining them telling Polish jokes etc. Swallow it or not, call it a genocide or not, that doesn`t change the crimes commited in Iraq and your government is a part of that crime. |
Ouh! Please remember to include Turkey in this responsibility  Turkish merchants supply arms and supplies(and make good money) from the US in Iraq 
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| 13. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:38 pm |
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Weird you know so much about what Poles do in Iraq although you don't know where Poland is exactly  . I wish you were right, cooking and doing the laundry would be ok. Unfortunately, that's not really what Poles do there 
LINK
You're absolutely right about many nations and religions committing countless crimes throughout history. But it doesn't change facts about crimes of Turkish government. We've had so many documents quoted here, that all you need to do is browse the archives and you'll see nobody here comments on the Kurdish issue basing on imaginary ideas. Mountain Kurds, banning the language are policies written down. Check out Handsom's posts amongst others and then you'll know.
As for why we comment on Turkish crimes - because it is a site about Turkish language and culture and politics falls into culture (or, more often, lack of it).
All through Middle Ages, thousands of Jews were murdered because of Catholic Church and Catholic countries policies. During WW II genocide of many a nation happened as result of Nazi policy. Tutsi killed Hutu, Hutu killed Tutsi. Poles killed Ukrainians, Ukrainians killed Poles. Nowadays Israeli kill Palestinians, Palestinians kill Israeli. Americans and UN forces added to massacre in the Balkans. Now US and their allies are in Iraq. The world is a bad place. But no matter what happened in the past or what is happening now, Turkey is no different. So why pretend it's otherwise?
Nobody claims that all countries are peaceful and without fault. Only Turkey does it and that's what we're commenting on.
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| 14. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:41 pm |
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Quoting magnadea:
Ouh! Please remember to include Turkey in this responsibility Turkish merchants supply arms and supplies(and make good money) from the US in Iraq |
See that`s exactly what I meant by "silly things"  You`re just proving my point.
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| 15. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:50 pm |
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Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting magnadea:
Ouh! Please remember to include Turkey in this responsibility Turkish merchants supply arms and supplies(and make good money) from the US in Iraq |
See that`s exactly what I meant by "silly things" You`re just proving my point. |
If you consider supplying arms a silly thing then I have no idea what a serious thing is . What do you think they do with the weapons? Stir soup with them?
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| 16. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 12:55 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer:
You're absolutely right about many nations and religions committing countless crimes throughout history. But it doesn't change facts about crimes of Turkish government. We've had so many documents quoted here, that all you need to do is browse the archives and you'll see nobody here comments on the Kurdish issue basing on imaginary ideas. Mountain Kurds, banning the language are policies written down. Check out Handsom's posts amongst others and then you'll know. |
written down on what? The Constitution?? it says that plan involves "establishing a new institute which will prove that kurts are actually 'mountain turks". What is this institute? Has it ever been established? How can you base all your arguments on a "government plan" that was not even pursued.
I`m not saying don`t talk about our crimes, I`m saying that don`t put our crimes in a vacuum tube, and try to show it as pure evil and pure good. Why don`t you ever talk about the crimes of Kurds for example when referring to this issue? Were they all angelic?
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| 17. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 01:00 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Quoting tamikidakika: Quoting magnadea:
Ouh! Please remember to include Turkey in this responsibility Turkish merchants supply arms and supplies(and make good money) from the US in Iraq |
See that`s exactly what I meant by "silly things" You`re just proving my point. |
If you consider supplying arms a silly thing then I have no idea what a serious thing is . What do you think they do with the weapons? Stir soup with them? |
If that had been done by the government that would have been something serious rather than being funny. BUt in this case it`s just funny, as you cannot restrict the trade for the private firms.
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| 18. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 01:08 pm |
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Tamidakika, do read older posts, I'm tired of repeating one thing over and over again. You have documents there and the issue of Turkishness has been talked over one million times. Why do you keep coming back to it in new threads? Weren't you supposed to prove Polish genocide here? You failed and now you're biting the ankles with "why-don't-you" type of questions. "Why don't you apologise for murdering Jews?" - we did. "Why don't you pay them money and give back their possessions?" - we did. "Why don't you comment on US and Iraq?" - we did. "Why don't you admit other nations commit crimes?" - we did. Sill, it changes nothing about Turkish-Kurdish relations . You're just gonna come up with other "why don't yous" without proving anything you say with something else but your feelings. This is sooo childish and I imagine it'll never end. Also, do some reading about how to conduct a debate. And how to stick to a point. Whatever you type here is emotional not informative or true. You were shown wrong so many times and you still come back with the same things. You're wrong. Get over it!
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| 19. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 01:32 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Tamidakika, do read older posts, I'm tired of repeating one thing over and over again. You have documents there and the issue of Turkishness has been talked over one million times. Why do you keep coming back to it in new threads? Weren't you supposed to prove Polish genocide here? You failed and now you're biting the ankles with "why-don't-you" type of questions. "Why don't you apologise for murdering Jews?" - we did. "Why don't you pay them money and give back their possessions?" - we did. "Why don't you comment on US and Iraq?" - we did. "Why don't you admit other nations commit crimes?" - we did. Sill, it changes nothing about Turkish-Kurdish relations . You're just gonna come up with other "why don't yous" without proving anything you say with something else but your feelings. This is sooo childish and I imagine it'll never end. Also, do some reading about how to conduct a debate. And how to stick to a point. Whatever you type here is emotional not informative or true. You were shown wrong so many times and you still come back with the same things. You're wrong. Get over it! |
Right I`m wrong, and it`s true that Kurdish is banned in Turkey, and they are considered to be Mountain Turks. (I stick to this point just like you) Now I`m sure that makes you relieved.
"Polish genocide"?? I never tried to prove there is such thing. I don`t even care. In fact, what I wanted to show was how parrallel my accusations were to those accusations about the so called armenian genocide.(I don`t know how we got to the Kurdish issue) And you denied that saying the criteria for a genocide were not met. Ok, now you can call us a genocide denier too(as you know no criteria when it comes To Turks). I`m sure that as well makes you feel good.
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| 20. |
28 Apr 2008 Mon 02:09 pm |
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It's probably pointless trying to explain it to you as no matter what you read, you understand just the opposite. Have you noticed how often you contradict yourself or misinterpret other people's posts?
Point 1
Quoting Daydreamer:
Kurdish is not banned anymore . But it was, just as Kurds were considered 'Mountain Turks' by your government. We were discussing past issues and I thought it was clear. |
Quoting tamikidakika:
Right I`m wrong, and it`s true that Kurdish is banned in Turkey , and they are considered to be Mountain Turks. (I stick to this point just like you) Now I`m sure that makes you relieved. |
Point 2
Quoting tamikidakika:
'Polish genocide'?? I never tried to prove there is such thing. I don`t even care. |
Quoting tamidakika:
Why doesn`t Poland recognize the genocide they commited, and why can't the Polish handle responsibility for their mistakes? |
Point 3
Quoting tamidakika:
In fact, what I wanted to show was how parrallel my accusations were to those accusations about the so called armenian genocide.(I don`t know how we got to the Kurdish issue) |
Where on earth have I talked about the Armenian Genocide? I checked all my posts and nowhere have I found even a trace of it!
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