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Fitna (a short movie about Islam in Europe)
(57 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
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20.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 10:16 am

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting catwoman:

Christianity USED TO be violent, but is not any more.


if it`s not violent anymore who the hell killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Bosnia, Karabagh and Iraq? You don`t even care about them, right? Kill a Christian and that will make you a terrorist, kill a million of Muslims and you will get away with it.



No matter how much you'd like to accuse Christians of being cruel, you'll never be right. Christians killed Muslims in Bosnia? Iraq? I thought it was the US and most of EU, not Christians. Hard as it may be for you to believe, but amongst those soldiers there were Christians, Muslims and Atheists. Probably a number of Pagans, some Satanists and Agnostics. You know why? Because it was not a religious crusade - it was a political aggression. Calling it a Christian killing spree is a lie.

You're right about Christianity being violent once. Not anymore. It's just based on false assumptions, just as every religion is in my personal opinion. I know Muslims love to go back to the Middle Ages, to crusades and all. But it is happening no more. You may argue that Europe is based on Christian laws, but they are just general ethical issues like don't steal or kill. I wrote a long post in another thread about it. To quote just a fragment:

"The rest of life is governed by Legal Systems of each country and those systems do not always follow the Commandments(e.g. Gay marriages in the Netherlands). Also, although adultery is a sin according to the Commandments, it is not a crime in the light of law. It is basis for divorce, but a person who cheats on their spouse is not legally tried for it."

So, please, don't justify political aggression by means of Holy War. It's not the case. And, answering your question about the bloodiest religion, it is Islam. Christians can stand criticism, no Christian country prohibits or punishes converting to any other religion, no Christian kills a guy who draws a satirical cartoon showing how Christianity is abused to kill. Oh, I forgot - there is a Christian organisation that is a well known terrorist group - KKK. But they're not really about religion, are they?

21.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 01:23 pm

Wilders' film is filthy party propaganda for his racist political party. Catwoman, it may show facts, but when using facts for a certain idea, you color them. This was not made to show facts, Im afraid. This is to show there is no place for muslims in my country.

I dont have a positive opinion about any religion, yet, this is not about religion. This is about internal Dutch politics. Thank god my country was smart enough to see it was a worthless and useless film

22.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 01:28 pm

Quoting CANLI:

christianity



Canli, you should stop dragging christianity into every discussion It would work if you, as a devout Muslim woman, would be debating with a devout Christian woman. But since this is not the case, christianity is just an empty argument.

23.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 05:49 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:


Christians killed Muslims in Bosnia? Iraq? I thought it was the US and most of EU, not Christians.



hmm ok nice reasoning. Then it was smn called Laden who killed 5 thousands of people. those who carry out honor killings are just some people whose names are x,y,z. Why are you accusing Islam?

Do you even remember that Bush called the American army in Iraq "crusaders". and you expect me to believe in this lie that they are not commiting these crimes as Christians. Get over it.


btw, I`m wondering why you skipped Karabagh. It`s maybe because you don`t want to see what your angelic Christian/Armenian brothers did.

24.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 09:08 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:



Canli, you should stop dragging christianity into every discussion



When claming that 'Islam sanctions massive violence and hatred.' what do you expect me to compare it with except other religions,which Christianity is one of them ?!
Beside,the crimes which i've mentioned in my above post were made 'Crusad' under the Christianity flag
and our present ones are made by Christians not Muslims'İraq,Afghanistan,Palestine' so speaking from those facts i cant see how such claim can be true !

So actually,if you open a discussion about religions,you must accept that we talk about ALL religions if appealed,not only about one
You are attacking or lets say criticising my religion so you must accept my attack or criticising to yours!

Quoting Deli_kizin:


It would work if you, as a devout Muslim woman, would be debating with a devout Christian woman. But since this is not the case, christianity is just an empty argument.



Ok,that again,devout Muslim,and devout Christian..
What does it mean ?

The way i understand it...no im not a devout Muslim...im just Muslim
İts simply like here in TLC
There are terms,you must accept them to become a member of TLC,yes ?!
And there are rules of the sites memberes MUST obay them,yes ?!
Religions are same,terms and rules,you must accept them to be in that religion,and then you SHOULD follow the rules when you are already a member
So,i accepted my religion terms,and i try to follow the rules,as any normal Muslim
İ try to pray all my 5 prayers,to fast Ramazan,give money to poors,i havent go to Haj yet,and i say Shahada
Those are the main 5 rules any regular Muslim does
And that is also my understanding to Christians ,they accept their terms,and try to follow their rules,a normal christian does
Go to sunday prayers,fast their big and small fast,follow other rules they have as any normal christian person...
İ know our christians people do this here

Devout in my understanding is to make more than normal,to study more in your religion,or to devout yourself more to it
To be a Mod as in TLC
İm not a devout Muslim ,im just Muslim
İ dont have enough knowledge to be one and debat with a devout Christian

Beside,do you think that if i am a devout Muslim,i shouldnt be debating except with devout Christian,but when someone is not a devout Christian criticise my religion,i shouldnt debat or reply,because im devout Muslim ?!
İ cant find the logic here
İf you have lack of knowledge about something,its not my problem that you are debating about it,is it ?!

Ps:'you' is generally speaking

25.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 09:35 pm

Quoting CANLI:

Ps:'you' is generally speaking



Thanks for clarifying that canım

I just think it is endearing really, to only be able to defend cruelties of your religion by comparing it to another one. Needless too

Maybe I understood the meaning of devout wrong as not native speaker, I just mean someone who follows the rules as given, and tries to adapt them to his life as much as possible

26.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 10:04 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting CANLI:

Ps:'you' is generally speaking



Thanks for clarifying that canım

I just think it is endearing really, to only be able to defend cruelties of your religion by comparing it to another one. Needless too

Maybe I understood the meaning of devout wrong as not native speaker, I just mean someone who follows the rules as given, and tries to adapt them to his life as much as possible



You still didnt get my point...
Walk backward ...the claim is ''Islam sanctions massive violence and hatred.''
The proves are ?!
Crusad,Middle East,Vietnam,Palastin,Afghanistan,İraq
Those were made by what,under what flag ,and who?!

İt wont lead you to İslam....
So you dont want me to say they were made under Chritianity and by Christians not İslam and Muslims ?!

You now are saying 'cruelties of your religion'
Ok give me proves ?!
İ gave mine,from the past and recent history,and even present
What are the cruelties that made by my religion?!
We both are living in the same world...
So now,point it out!

27.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 10:31 pm

Quoting CANLI:

What are the cruelties that made by my religion?!
We both are living in the same world...
So now,point it out!



I guess I didnt read the whole thread carefully then, didnt know that things done by Christianity were said to be made by muslims.

However, I cant answer your question. Your religion doesnt make cruelty I think, eventhough some parts of Quran are violent towards atheists.Cruelties are done in NAME of. And I can tell many cruelties done in name of Islam, but I wont bother really, because as we live in the same world, you know them as well.

28.       CANLI
5084 posts
 11 May 2008 Sun 10:55 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:


Yes,we both live in the same world,and we both know !

29.       armegon
1872 posts
 12 May 2008 Mon 03:41 am

Quoting tamikidakika:

Quoting Daydreamer:


Christians killed Muslims in Bosnia? Iraq? I thought it was the US and most of EU, not Christians.



hmm ok nice reasoning. Then it was smn called Laden who killed 5 thousands of people. those who carry out honor killings are just some people whose names are x,y,z. Why are you accusing Islam?

Do you even remember that Bush called the American army in Iraq 'crusaders'. and you expect me to believe in this lie that they are not commiting these crimes as Christians. Get over it.


btw, I`m wondering why you skipped Karabagh. It`s maybe because you don`t want to see what your angelic Christian/Armenian brothers did.



Well said
it seems now Poles became expert on Islam(learning from Wilders maybe) after then Turkish history

hmmm, and they concluded Islam is the most violent religion

30.       catwoman
8933 posts
 12 May 2008 Mon 05:19 am

Quoting armegon:

it seems now poles became expert on Islam(learning from Wilders maybe) after then Turkish history

hmmm, and they concluded Islam is the most violent religion


how sad. were you by chance one of those who were crying blood that we were "generalizing Turkish people" too much? I hope not all Turks are as simple minded as you are.

look dear, there is nothing magical about Islam or turkish history. it is something that everybody, in every country can read about, see and understand. history is about facts, so we don't need a turkish person to know turkish history. same with Islam. a person in Swaziland can read Koran, can read the news and see how Muslims behave, what they do in the name of their faith... etc. of course not all muslims are violent, but the ones that are do have support in their scriptures and are not condemned by the rest of the muslim world. these are facts.
I know you will jump on me now on some weird grounds and you will never respond to the point that I'm making, so help yourself and show us how you can insult me because you have nothing rational to respond to what I say.

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