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13th Anniversary of the Bosnian Genocide
(41 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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1.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 11 Jul 2008 Fri 12:00 pm

Who Remembers?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/09/europe/EU-Bosnia-Srebrenica.php

http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/galeridetay.aspx?cid=13992&rid=2

2.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 11 Jul 2008 Fri 12:10 pm

Timeline: Siege of Srebrenica
In the summer of 1995, two years after being designated a United Nations Safe Area, the Bosnian town of Srebrenica became the scene of the worst massacre in the Bosnian war.
This is an account of the critical days leading up to the killings.

6 - 8 July 1995: Bosnian Serb forces had laid siege to the Srebrenica enclave, where tens of thousands of civilians had taken refuge from earlier Serb offensives in north-eastern Bosnia.


Survivors from Srebrenica fled to Muslim-held territory
They were under the protection of about 600 lightly armed Dutch infantry forces. Fuel was running out and no fresh food had been brought into the enclave since May.

Serb forces began shelling Srebrenica. Bosnian Muslim fighters in the town asked for the return of weapons they had surrendered to the peacekeepers but their request was refused.

The Dutch commander called UN Headquarters in Sarajevo asking for "close air support" after shells and rockets landed close to refugee centres and observation posts manned by peacekeepers.

Serbs advance on Srebrenica
9 July 1995: The Bosnian Serbs stepped up their shelling and thousands of refugees fled to the town from southern camps ahead of advancing Serbs, who attacked Dutch observation posts, taking about 30 soldiers hostage.

One peacekeeper was fatally wounded when Bosnian Muslims fired on retreating Dutch troops.

10 July 1995: Dutch Commander Colonel Karremans filed a request for UN air support after the Bosnian Serbs shelled Dutch positions. UN Commander General Janvier initially refused, but agreed after another request from the colonel. Serb attacks stopped before the planes arrived and strikes were postponed.

Some 4,000 refugees were in the town by the evening and there was panic on the streets. Large crowds were gathered around the Dutch positions.

The Dutch commander told town leaders that Nato planes would launch massive air attacks against the Serbs if they had not withdrawn from the safe area by 0600 the following morning.

11 July 1995: The Serb forces did not withdraw, but at 0900 Colonel Karremans received word from Sarajevo that his request for close air support had been submitted on the wrong form. At 1030, the re-submitted request reached General Janvier, but Nato planes had to return to base in Italy to refuel after being airborne since 0600. By midday, more than 20,000 refugees - mostly women, children and the infirm - fled to the main Dutch base at Potocari.

At 1430, two Dutch F-16 fighters dropped two bombs on Serb positions surrounding Srebrenica. The Serbs responded with a threat to kill their Dutch hostages and shell refugees, causing the suspension of further strikes.

The Bosnian Serb commander Ratko Mladic entered Srebrenica two hours later, accompanied by Serb camera crews. In the evening, General Mladic summoned Colonel Karremans to a meeting at which he delivered an ultimatum that the Muslims must hand over their weapons to guarantee their lives.

Serbs seize control
12 July 1995: Buses arrived to take women and children to Muslim territory, while the Serbs begin separating out all men from age 12 to 77 for "interrogation for suspected war crimes".


Ratko Mladic (left) drank with Dutch Col Ton Karremans on 12 July
It is estimated that 23,000 women and children were deported in the next 30 hours. Hundreds of men were held in trucks and warehouses.

About 15,000 Bosnian Muslim fighters had attempted to escape from Srebrenica overnight and were shelled as they fled through the mountains.

Fears for 'missing' refugees
13 July 1995: The first killings of unarmed Muslims took place in a warehouse in the nearby village of Kravica.

Peacekeepers handed over about 5,000 Muslims who had been sheltering at the Dutch base at Potocari. In return, the Bosnian Serbs released 14 Dutch peacekeepers who had been held at the Nova Kasaba base.

16 July 1995: Early reports of massacres emerged as the first survivors of the long march from Srebrenica began to arrive in Muslim-held territory.

Following negotiations between the UN and the Bosnian Serbs, the Dutch were at last permitted to leave Srebrenica, leaving behind weapons, food and medical supplies.

In the five days after Bosnian Serb forces overran Srebrenica, more than 8,000 Muslim men are thought to have been killed.
----------------
After the Genocide was over with Mladic and his men and Dutch Generals have shared drinks, exchanged gifts and danced well into the night knowing they would be leaving Srebrenica. The Dutch Col Ton Karremans named the Srebrenica siege as nothing more but an "Excellently planned Military operation"

The death toll stands at over 8,000 dead and counting, by this summer nearly 300 more corpses have been recovered at the site.

3.       catwoman
8933 posts
 11 Jul 2008 Fri 01:52 pm

Not to say that this wasn't hideous and horrible, but according to some sources, what Turkey has done to Kurds in the Southeast was far worse then any of the atrocities of the 1990s.

Chomsky

4.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 11 Jul 2008 Fri 03:15 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Not to say that this wasn't hideous and horrible, but according to some sources, what Turkey has done to Kurds in the Southeast was far worse then any of the atrocities of the 1990s.

Chomsky




catwoman you`re being even more desperate when you try to attack the Turks without no DOCUMENT/EVIDENT(if these mean anything to you).

Can you show me the evident of these so called "attrocities"? I`m not considering noam chomsky`s words to be "document". If Chomsky was a decent scholar he would prove his accusations. Did he?



And I`m reminding you that the thread is about the killed Bosnians

5.       teaschip
3870 posts
 11 Jul 2008 Fri 05:52 pm

You mean the massacre? This was never found to be a genocide by the ICJ. However, was ruled by the ICT that it was. You must understand this very confusing. Just like the Armenian Genocide, some say it was indeed a Genocide, others indicate it as a massacre. Either way both were terrible.

UN's top court clears Serbia of genocide during Bosnian war

6.       si++
3785 posts
 11 Jul 2008 Fri 06:01 pm

Quoting teaschip:

You mean the massacre? This was never found to be a genocide by the ICJ. You must understand this, right? Unless you agree that there was an Armenian genocide or was it a massacre? Either way both were terrible.


Turks lived with Armenians together in peace for centuries. Then something happenned (you should know what). Turks are not the only ones to be blamed for that. Armenians killed us also (call it massacre or genocide) which is something those who are biased to the Armenian claims do not seem to ever mention. And you know what? We are not the first one who started it.

7.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 12 Jul 2008 Sat 01:23 am

Quoting teaschip:

You mean the massacre? This was never found to be a genocide by the ICJ. However, was ruled by the ICT that it was. You must understand this very confusing. Just like the Armenian Genocide, some say it was indeed a Genocide, others indicate it as a massacre. Either way both were terrible.

UN's top court clears Serbia of genocide during Bosnian war




Can you tell me a genocide that Christians commited against non-Christians? The history is full of them, but none is called genocide by the west accept the Jewish one. I wasn`t surprised by the UN`s decision.

8.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 12 Jul 2008 Sat 09:18 am

The matter in Bosnia, tragic as it was, is a complicated issue and simplifying it as Christians killing Muslims is a mistake. To get that focus on the history of that region, a mixture of countries and nationalities forced to live together. A mixture that had no power of decision on their own, a mixture controlled from Moscow. Suddenly communism falls and nationalistic movements appear, some countries want to leave the union, some believe it's better to stay as one big country. Can you imagine Kurds declaring independence? Would Turkey say "Sure, go ahead"? UN ruled out genocide because who should be blamed? There is a difference between Serbs (as a nation living in Serbia) and Bosnian Serbs (Bosnians of Serb descent who lived in the Bosnian territory before it was Bosnian). What happened in Srebrenica was a tragedy, nobody says it wasn't, but it was about national independence and ethnic cleansing than religion. Bosniaks were not exterminated so brutally because they were Muslims, among them were many who were as Orthodox as Bosnian Serbs.

9.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 12 Jul 2008 Sat 10:28 am

Quoting Daydreamer:

The matter in Bosnia, tragic as it was, is a complicated issue and simplifying it as Christians killing Muslims is a mistake. To get that focus on the history of that region, a mixture of countries and nationalities forced to live together. A mixture that had no power of decision on their own, a mixture controlled from Moscow. Suddenly communism falls and nationalistic movements appear, some countries want to leave the union, some believe it's better to stay as one big country. Can you imagine Kurds declaring independence? Would Turkey say "Sure, go ahead"? UN ruled out genocide because who should be blamed? There is a difference between Serbs (as a nation living in Serbia) and Bosnian Serbs (Bosnians of Serb descent who lived in the Bosnian territory before it was Bosnian). What happened in Srebrenica was a tragedy, nobody says it wasn't, but it was about national independence and ethnic cleansing than religion. Bosniaks were not exterminated so brutally because they were Muslims, among them were many who were as Orthodox as Bosnian Serbs.




Did I ever talk about the reasons behind the Bosnian killings? It`s not my concern here. What I`m arguing is how the western world ignored the Bosnians because they were Muslims. I`m asking a simple question; If the Muslim Bosnians had killed the Christian Serbs, would the west still have ignored it like what they did to the Bosnians? (but then again no matter what the muslim are the shite and evil, the west says)

I asked whether one can point out a single incidence in which Christians genocided non-Christians and that is called "genocide" by the west with the exception of holocaust. Do you have an answer? Honestly, I don`t.

so we must ignore what happened to the Incas, Mayas, American natives, Algerians, Azeris, Bosnians, Iraqis because they weren`t Christians.


You`re saying that it was a power struggle between the Serbs and Bosnians thus none can be blamed. Then how come you`re always so sure that It was the Turks who is to be blamed of "the Armenian Genocide".


As you see what Im talking about is merely this disgusting western hypocrisy.

10.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 12 Jul 2008 Sat 11:03 am

I can't agree with you, genocide is genocide regardless of what nationality is murdered. Read the list in Wiki and you'll see that what you consider Christian countries were held responsible many times

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

And Holocaust is not a minor thing, it's the bloodiest crime against humanity in modern history.

Saying that it's hard to find a country to blame for Bosnian massacre, I meant what country would you hold responsible? Serbia? Bosnia itself? It was the period of transformation and you cannot blame one country for what happened before that country came into being.

I think you're obsessed with religious notions. It is all about money and power, not religion. Crusades are over for a long time (ask Alameda who loves linking it if you don't believe).

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