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Turkish Politics |
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Ergenekon (again) Tip of the iceberg of crime
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(50 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 [5]
| 40. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 04:57 pm |
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| 41. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:00 pm |
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Quoting KeithL:
This I agree with you completely.
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if you agree what I said then you were wrong about your post:
That is nonsense. At least describe them as to what they believe they are. The protectors of Kemalism.
I was trying to explain why they can NOT be called kemalists or protectors of kemalism.
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| 42. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:01 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: Forget the rest. Just explain this part to me . Not in terms of 1928, 1958 or 1978, but in 2008. What piece of this puzzle am I missing? |
What you are missing is the fact that the PKK problem already exists and Kurds remember what has happened to them.
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| 43. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:03 pm |
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Quoting KeithL:
Forget the rest. Just explain this part to me . Not in terms of 1928, 1958 or 1978, but in 2008. What piece of this puzzle am I missing? |
This is very simple actually..
We made mistakes in 1928, 1958 or 1978..
And we are still making the same mistakes.. (I tried to explain it in sark islahat plani thread!!)
That is the simple missing piece..
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| 44. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:05 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting KeithL:
This I agree with you completely.
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if you agree what I said then you were wrong about your post:
That is nonsense. At least describe them as to what they believe they are. The protectors of Kemalism.
I was trying to explain why they can NOT be called kemalists or protectors of kemalism. |
Its not MY claim they are protecting Kemalism. I said it is their claim. I do not procalaim that I know the ins and outs of Ergenekon. And I would prefer a country where people did not see them as necessary. I don't get the same feel from your posts.
Your posts give me the feel that you think PKK is a necessary evil. This is our one and only difference. Nothing else.
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| 45. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:10 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting KeithL:
Forget the rest. Just explain this part to me . Not in terms of 1928, 1958 or 1978, but in 2008. What piece of this puzzle am I missing? |
This is very simple actually..
We made mistakes in 1928, 1958 or 1978..
And we are still making the same mistakes.. (I tried to explain it in sark islahat plani thread!!)
That is the simple missing piece.. |
This is so not true! Any kurd from eastern turkey can find his way to istanbul to seek a job.
And Catwoman, comparing kurds to Blacks in US is not realistic.
Kurds were never slaves.
They have never been a population minority the way blacks were and still are.
Kurds did have and still have self determination to own property and run for public office.
Turkey's response to Kurds has been in retaliation of their constant pressure to become a breakaway republic.
Is there also a document named "the kurdish genocide"?
I'm not familiar with it.
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| 46. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:11 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting KeithL:
This I agree with you completely.
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if you agree what I said then you were wrong about your post:
That is nonsense. At least describe them as to what they believe they are. The protectors of Kemalism.
I was trying to explain why they can NOT be called kemalists or protectors of kemalism. |
Its not MY claim they are protecting Kemalism. I said it is their claim. I do not procalaim that I know the ins and outs of Ergenekon. And I would prefer a country where people did not see them as necessary. I don't get the same feel from your posts.
Your posts give me the feel that you think PKK is a necessary evil. This is our one and only difference. Nothing else. |
I never said that PKK is necessary evil here.
What I said was they are the product of our own wrong doings, our own mistakes.
Years and years of denying basic rights to some part of people who have been living there with Turks (us) for thousands of years.
We Turks are the oppressing group in this issue.
We created them..we created them with our own mistakes and some of us are still not accepting these and we are having this mess..
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| 47. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:15 pm |
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What basic right are they not getting now???
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| 48. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:20 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: What basic right are they not getting now??? |
I am copying ciko's post here:
well i was in sirnak cizre as a soldier and i also have been in the east as a citizen and believe me what the state created there was not very innocent. to ban speaking your own language, to ban listening to music in your own language, to ban having name in your own language, and to do nothing else except bans as a state would cause REBEL anywhere in the world, please do not speak like Turkish State was always good to people there, even the most fascist generals admitted it.
and another one
Last month a child could not get into Turkey only because he has a kurdish name.. there are thousands of samples like that..
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| 49. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:29 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting KeithL: What basic right are they not getting now??? |
I am copying ciko's post here:
well i was in sirnak cizre as a soldier and i also have been in the east as a citizen and believe me what the state created there was not very innocent. to ban speaking your own language, to ban listening to music in your own language, to ban having name in your own language, and to do nothing else except bans as a state would cause REBEL anywhere in the world, please do not speak like Turkish State was always good to people there, even the most fascist generals admitted it.
and another one
Last month a child could not get into Turkey only because he has a kurdish name.. there are thousands of samples like that.. |
isn't that in the past???
all of these forms of opression are lifted now. And I agree, they were wrong.
There are rascists in every country. Turkey is not immune from this ugly trait...
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| 50. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 06:01 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting KeithL: What basic right are they not getting now??? |
I am copying ciko's post here:
well i was in sirnak cizre as a soldier and i also have been in the east as a citizen and believe me what the state created there was not very innocent. to ban speaking your own language, to ban listening to music in your own language, to ban having name in your own language, and to do nothing else except bans as a state would cause REBEL anywhere in the world, please do not speak like Turkish State was always good to people there, even the most fascist generals admitted it.
and another one
Last month a child could not get into Turkey only because he has a kurdish name.. there are thousands of samples like that.. |
isn't that in the past???
all of these forms of opression are lifted now. And I agree, they were wrong.
There are rascists in every country. Turkey is not immune from this ugly trait... |
I think you did not read ciko's post carefully..
He was saying 'last month'!!
And just changing the law has not changed the racists in Turkey suddenly..
They are still pretending as if nothing happened in that country for 80 years, they are still pretending they are as blood thirsty as ever. They are still going on 'kill them all' etc..
Basically, we have to uproot this fascism which has been mixed with the nationalism for a long time.
It will take time yani.
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