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You have to kill terrorists. Nothing else works.. (really?)
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1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 12:49 am

Can you end terrorists by killing them -- and their children?

 

Sometimes an article by one man summarizes the mindset of millions. The piece titled Bam Stirs Fear in Israel, written by Ralph Peters and published in the New York Post on January 1, was like that. .... Mr. Peters was trying to persuade his readers why it was crucial that the Israeli military kept on bombing the Gaza Strip ..

 

Fighting terrorists effectively means going in on the ground, and sooner is better than later, argued Mr. Peters. ´You can´t impress fanatics into surrendering. You have to kill them. Nothing else works.´

...You have to kill fanatics. Nothing else works.

 

Why they become terrorists:

You can replace the word ´fanatics´ here by other ones such as ´extremists´ or ´terrorists.´ These are the terms we hear very often since September 11, 2001. Strangely they are used as if they refer to some bizarre creatures, some sort of sadist beasts, whose very nature compels them to inflict pain on innocent people.

Yet, in fact, there are no natural born terrorists. People become fanatics, extremists or terrorists for some reason.

What is that reason, then, in the case of the fanatics that Mr. Peters is referring to, the militants of Hamas? He and his likeminded would probably tell us that it is their political theology, i.e., Islamism, which makes them fight against Israel....

 

But wait a minute, for God’s sake. In the past forty years, Palestine had generated all sorts of extremists, not just Islamists ones. In fact, for long, the tip of the Palestinian sphere had been sharpened by ideas other than Islam, such nationalism or Marxism. (That’s why Israel supported Hamas in the late 80’s, as an alternative to the then more militant Fatah.) One of the most radical terrorists which fought Israel was actually George Habash, a Palestinian Christian.

The truth is actually all-obvious: It is neither their nature nor their ideology which is creating all these ´fanatics´ in Palestine. The root of the problem is the occupation, oppression and humiliation that they have suffered for generations. Ideologies matter, but only as a catalyst. The main engine of radicalization is what Israel has done, and continues to do, to their people.

That’s why the calls for ´killing all the fanatics´ are simply insane. The more they are killed, the more they will hate Israel and hit back. The more they are destroyed, the more they will wow to destroy Israel, and use all means necessary. This cycle of violence has no end.

 

The experience with Turkish militarism:

 

I am very accustomed to this single-minded militarism, because I have seen it in my own country. In Turkey, since the early 80’s, we have a terrorist organization called the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party). For long, our generals, who handled this problem, told us that these are bloodthirsty outlaws deserving to be crushed by our mighty military. ´We will kill all those treacherous terrorists one by one,´ once said one of our four-star generals, ´until all of them are finished.´ However, although our army has killed at least 20 thousand of them, they never were finished. Every killed PKK militant was soon replaced by his brother or nephew who had sworn to take his revenge.

The problem, which our generals did not want to see for long, was this: The PKK was not just a group of isolated militants; they were rooted in a people. Moreover, it was us who alienated that people by our systemic injustice. For decades, our authoritarian state had banned the Kurds’ language, humiliated their culture, and crushed their political efforts. The zenith of oppression was the junta years of 1980-83, when thousands of Kurdish activists were brutally tortured in the infamous Diyarbakir Military Prison. Almost every one of those victims, or their family members, soon rushed to join the PKK, which started its terrorist war in 1984.

In the 90’s, Turkish politicians began to realize that this was a political problem that can only be solved by political means: by granting the Kurds their natural rights! ´No,´ the generals said. ´We have to crush the terrorists first; otherwise it will be concession to them.´ Then they kept on burning the villages in the southeast in order to ´dry the swamp.´ Little they realized that the swamp was also in the policies, and the mind, of Ankara.

Tanks versus thoughts:

The hawks in Israel and their supporters in America are in the same arrogant self-delusion. Their call for total war is not just inhumane, but also mindless. ...

 

.. ´there is no military solution to what is fundamentally a political conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples.´ But, alas, the fanatics in Israel and America are just too blind to see that.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/opinion/10726845.asp?yazarid=301&gid=260

2.       lessluv
1052 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 12:56 am

To truly put an end to terrorism, we must first determine what causes terrorism, and put an end to its cause.

 

 

 

There will always be fanatics and extremists while there is ´cause´ how could you be sure you could exterminate everyone that that a thought towards the cause (in case they may end up as extremists).....

3.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 01:42 am

 

Quoting lessluv

To truly put an end to terrorism, we must first determine what causes terrorism, and put an end to its cause.

 

 

 

There will always be fanatics and extremists while there is ´cause´ how could you be sure you could exterminate everyone that that a thought towards the cause (in case they may end up as extremists).....

 

 To put it in a nutshell.......the problem is the Israelis have taken over the Palestinians land (with a lot of help from others, most notably the British in the early days) and are continueing to expand, leaving the Palestinians no place to live.

 

 

There is no defined border to Israel. The idea is Eretz Israel is the border of Israel. Of course, those who live in those lands don´t like it.

 

 The Likud party does not accept the idea of a Palestinian state...period.

 

Here, read the Likud Charter for more information.

 

The ´Peace & Security´ chapter of the Likud Party platform “flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” The chapter continues: “The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state.

 

Hamas does not accept the state of Israel either.......so there you have a problem. I think Hamas has revised it´s ideas in the last few years to the acceptance of Israel within certain confines.

 

After years of pograms, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocost and other hideous incidents, the Jewish people wanted a "homeland"....The present day location was chosen due to historic roots...The Promised Land.....the only problem was....there were people living on it.

 

 

4.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 02:17 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

Can you end terrorists by killing them -- and their children?...........................................

 

.. ´there is no military solution to what is fundamentally a political conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples.´ But, alas, the fanatics in Israel and America are just too blind to see that.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/opinion/10726845.asp?yazarid=301&gid=260

 

 Interesting article food for thought. It would be nice if "interested" parties would stop arming them and fanning the flames.

5.       dreamsr4living
63 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 03:04 am

 

Quoting lessluv

To truly put an end to terrorism, we must first determine what causes terrorism, and put an end to its cause.

 

 

 

There will always be fanatics and extremists while there is ´cause´ how could you be sure you could exterminate everyone that that a thought towards the cause (in case they may end up as extremists).....

 

Totally agree! If you kill just the terrorist, someone linked to the terrorist, whether biological or not, they´ll seek justice/revenge so it´s like a chain that will never really end unless you get to the bottom of the cause not the people behind the cause.

Well said lessluv!

6.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 04:18 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

Can you end terrorists by killing them -- and their children?

 

Sometimes an article by one man summarizes the mindset of millions. The piece titled Bam Stirs Fear in Israel, written by Ralph Peters and published in the New York Post on January 1, was like that. .... Mr. Peters was trying to persuade his readers why it was crucial that the Israeli military kept on bombing the Gaza Strip ..

 

Fighting terrorists effectively means going in on the ground, and sooner is better than later, argued Mr. Peters. ´You can´t impress fanatics into surrendering. You have to kill them. Nothing else works.´

...You have to kill fanatics. Nothing else works.

 

Why they become terrorists:

You can replace the word ´fanatics´ here by other ones such as ´extremists´ or ´terrorists.´ These are the terms we hear very often since September 11, 2001. Strangely they are used as if they refer to some bizarre creatures, some sort of sadist beasts, whose very nature compels them to inflict pain on innocent people.

Yet, in fact, there are no natural born terrorists. People become fanatics, extremists or terrorists for some reason.

What is that reason, then, in the case of the fanatics that Mr. Peters is referring to, the militants of Hamas? He and his likeminded would probably tell us that it is their political theology, i.e., Islamism, which makes them fight against Israel....

 

But wait a minute, for God’s sake. In the past forty years, Palestine had generated all sorts of extremists, not just Islamists ones. In fact, for long, the tip of the Palestinian sphere had been sharpened by ideas other than Islam, such nationalism or Marxism. (That’s why Israel supported Hamas in the late 80’s, as an alternative to the then more militant Fatah.) One of the most radical terrorists which fought Israel was actually George Habash, a Palestinian Christian.

The truth is actually all-obvious: It is neither their nature nor their ideology which is creating all these ´fanatics´ in Palestine. The root of the problem is the occupation, oppression and humiliation that they have suffered for generations. Ideologies matter, but only as a catalyst. The main engine of radicalization is what Israel has done, and continues to do, to their people.

That’s why the calls for ´killing all the fanatics´ are simply insane. The more they are killed, the more they will hate Israel and hit back. The more they are destroyed, the more they will wow to destroy Israel, and use all means necessary. This cycle of violence has no end.

 

The experience with Turkish militarism:

 

I am very accustomed to this single-minded militarism, because I have seen it in my own country. In Turkey, since the early 80’s, we have a terrorist organization called the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party). For long, our generals, who handled this problem, told us that these are bloodthirsty outlaws deserving to be crushed by our mighty military. ´We will kill all those treacherous terrorists one by one,´ once said one of our four-star generals, ´until all of them are finished.´ However, although our army has killed at least 20 thousand of them, they never were finished. Every killed PKK militant was soon replaced by his brother or nephew who had sworn to take his revenge.

The problem, which our generals did not want to see for long, was this: The PKK was not just a group of isolated militants; they were rooted in a people. Moreover, it was us who alienated that people by our systemic injustice. For decades, our authoritarian state had banned the Kurds’ language, humiliated their culture, and crushed their political efforts. The zenith of oppression was the junta years of 1980-83, when thousands of Kurdish activists were brutally tortured in the infamous Diyarbakir Military Prison. Almost every one of those victims, or their family members, soon rushed to join the PKK, which started its terrorist war in 1984.

In the 90’s, Turkish politicians began to realize that this was a political problem that can only be solved by political means: by granting the Kurds their natural rights! ´No,´ the generals said. ´We have to crush the terrorists first; otherwise it will be concession to them.´ Then they kept on burning the villages in the southeast in order to ´dry the swamp.´ Little they realized that the swamp was also in the policies, and the mind, of Ankara.

Tanks versus thoughts:

The hawks in Israel and their supporters in America are in the same arrogant self-delusion. Their call for total war is not just inhumane, but also mindless. ...

 

.. ´there is no military solution to what is fundamentally a political conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples.´ But, alas, the fanatics in Israel and America are just too blind to see that.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/opinion/10726845.asp?yazarid=301&gid=260

 

 

Thank you for this sensible article. All reasonable people see the similarity between Hamas and PkK.

7.       armegon
1872 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 06:33 am

I think its the new trend to equalize pkk and hamas . Such an absurd and foolish mentality can imagine this. Firstle how can one compare palestenians with kurds really? Kurds have rights in Turkey and citizens of Turkey as well as Iran, Iraq, Syria. They represented in Turkish parliament. There are also ethnically Turks citizens of Iran, Iraq. Anyway, on the other side Palestenians have different status, they have authority on their lands recognized by other countries, but they are under blockage and occupation of Israel, they are caged by Israel, even in cease-fire period they were subjected to electricity and water shortage, they were not able to find medicine for their patients. Now they are subjected to one of the routine Israel massacres.

 

And when one try to compare pkk and hamas, its easy to see difference clearly, firstly pkk is a terrorist organization established by Turkish citizens in TURKEY and its target is Turkey´s unity hence pkk is a terrorist organization by firstly the laws of Turkey whereas hamas is not a terrorist organization established inside of Israel or by the citizens of Israel. According to lawsof nations and also laws of Israel, Hamas is an organization established in foreign lands called Palestine. Hamas did also join and won the elections in Palestine by the help of Israel unlike pkk. Actually it seems not possible for pkk.

 

For instance if pkk were to join and won the elections in Iraq and then Turkey was trying to occupy their lands, this time maybe comparable. Hamas has also terrorist acts(its not comparable with Israel), but it seems their acts was legalized by the elections, on the contrary pkk has no legal actions, its well known terrorist organization in the world recognized by many countries...

8.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 04:08 pm

 

Quoting armegon

I think its the new trend to equalize pkk and hamas .

 

Nobody said they are "equal", just "similar", in the sense that their roots is oppression.

9.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 04:41 pm

Thanks for the article H. 

 

It is easy to dehumanize the situation and only talk about who has done what to whom and who deserves what.  When you consider the root causes of terrorism, or extremist behavior, it becomes clear that people have lost the ability to put themselves in anothers shoes.    

10.       armegon
1872 posts
 09 Jan 2009 Fri 05:19 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

Nobody said they are "equal", just "similar", in the sense that their roots is oppression.

 

 But they are not similar in that sense what you meant . Actually they are not comparable as i mentioned...

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