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You have to kill terrorists. Nothing else works.. (really?)
(181 Messages in 19 pages - View all)
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110.       Merih
933 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 06:44 am

 

Quoting femmeous

 such an irrevelant thing to say. shame on you.

 

 How can you say shame on you?  You so called Europeans were the ones who kicked Jews out of your land... First the Spanish 500 years ago - then Ottoman Empire opened their arms to them, gave them land in the Aegean region while the rest of the European countries didn´t bother at all.. then after the second world war... the same thing.. kick them out and give a land to them somewhere away...

 

Now you claim to be their best friends...

 

 

 

111.       armegon
1872 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 10:01 am

Quran never clearly says she was virgin when she was pregnant, thats just interpretation. I wonder if there wasnt any concept of virgin birth in christian theology, did people interpret Quran like this? They are programmed to see virgin-birth in those verses. The concept of virgin birth can also be found in pagan beliefs like Isis and Mithra movements, which Romans once were pagans thus influenced christianity like the concept of trinity, son of God and mother of God IMO. According to Quran, all humans are from dust, then from zygote which is union of male and female gametes and since Jesus was mentioned as human in Quran, he should have father. But i respect the muslims who give Jesus a special status rather than prophet like Christians{#lang_emotions_wink}

112.       armegon
1872 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 10:02 am

 

Quoting tamikidakika

That`s what Im wondering. how did she get pregnant?{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 Is it such important ?  Do people need to know the fathers of all prophets? Why people do not search their fathers ?

113.       lessluv
1052 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 11:24 am

Quoting tamikidakika

That`s what Im wondering. how did she get pregnant?{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

{#lang_emotions_rolleyes}can we assign someone to do the ´birds and bees´ talk for tami {#lang_emotions_shy}

114.       Merih
933 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 12:23 pm

 

Quoting armegon

Quran never clearly says she was virgin when she was pregnant, thats just interpretation. I wonder if there wasnt any concept of virgin birth in christian theology, did people interpret Quran like this? They are programmed to see virgin-birth in those verses. The concept of virgin birth can also be found in pagan beliefs like Isis and Mithra movements, which Romans once were pagans thus influenced christianity like the concept of trinity, son of God and mother of God IMO. According to Quran, all humans are from dust, then from zygote which is union of male and female gametes and since Jesus was mentioned as human in Quran, he should have father. But i respect the muslims who give Jesus a special status rather than prophet like Christians{#lang_emotions_wink}

 

 Well, Armegon, as a matter of fact Quran clearly tells of this miracle.

115.       Merih
933 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 12:26 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 Well, Armegon, as a matter of fact Quran clearly tells of this miracle.

 

 Surah Mariam, 19, 20, 21 ayat

116.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 01:36 pm

I´ve just googled it and found that it was in Efes that Mary was recognisedas the mother of God. Like many things Christians believe until nowadays, it was a conscious decision of bishops (same as the concept of Holy Trinity). I´ve read somewhere that the idea of Mary being a virgin in the modern sense of the word results from failing to notice that in the past young unmarried women were called virgins and it had nothing to do with sexual activity.

Tami wonders about Joseph, the way I see it, he knocked Mary up, then either married her or was with her and I´m sure they had more children that Bible or Quran do not speak of. Somehow I find it impossible to believe that a healthy young guy would live with a young woman and raise her son without doing IT. But that´s common sense applied to events in the dim past. I doubt it´s ever going to be properly researched. Especially now that religions bring in so much profit. Yet I find it quite fascinating how a simple guy from the middle of nowhere managed to be recognised as a prophet and is adored by many until this day

117.       armegon
1872 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 01:44 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 Surah Mariam, 19, 20, 21 ayat

 

Where it says clearly that she was virgin when she got pregnant in below verses?

 

19:19 He said, "I am only a Messenger of your Lord who says ‘I shall bestow upon you the gift of a son endowed with a spotless character.’”

19:20 She said, "How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me? For, never have I been a loose woman!” (3:46, 19:28).

19:21 The angel answered, “Thus it is; but your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, so that We make him a symbol for people and a grace from Us. (A symbol of belief and disbelief, with the grace of Revelation). And it is a thing decreed.” (3:46-47).

Actually we dont know the age when this is told, she could have been 15-20. She was growing up in a mostly celibacy temple, only some of them were chosen to keep the lineage continue. These marriages were kept secret, and thus unknown for Mary also. She grew up as a nun and expected to stay like this all her life. This is why she is told to bow down for Allah and His laws(3:43), as celibacy was never ordained by Allah(57:27).

Below is another interpretation according to Quran to those verses you mentioned:

Quote:

19:22-23 Mary is shown grieving, then talking to her husband. Although married, they made a violation of the normal sanctuary rules, as she became pregnant in the non-holy months, so she fled the temple for a while and labor pains all add to her grief which she is expressing. This is why her family acted so offended in 19:27, and said she had done wrong by breaking the custom as she was part of a Royal Family. This is why they remind her of her lineage. In 19:28 she is said to have done bagiyaa, which means to go beyond the bounds of custom. All royal couples were expected to only procreate in specific months, so that their offspring would be born in Jewish Holy months. Sex outside of these months were seen as a grave offence. In 19:25 we are told Jesus was born when the dates are ripe. In Palestine this means between late September and early October. This period falls outside of the Jewish Holy Months as found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls are writings of the Nazarene Temple where Mary lived and Jesus was part of. The Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden before the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, and were found in 1945. These Scrolls are untampered and did not go through a long chain of oral tradition or rewritings. So they give a complete and authentic report of the Nazerene customs and beliefs. Now a few more important concepts given in the Qur’an that strongly negate the fallacy of the “virgin birth” of Jesus: Allah does all things according to His Laws (3:40,19:9)

You will never find Allah’s Laws changing or deviating (

6:34, 6:116, 10:64, 17:77, 18:27, 33:38, 33:62, 35:43, 40:85, 48:23) The example of Jesus, as far as God is concerned, is the same as that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be!", and he was (3:59)

God won’t have an offspring since He never had a mate (

6:101). Verse 19:22 narrates of Mary moving far off from her village. Since Mary had broken the normal rules of the shrine, she and her family kept the pregnancy confidential.

........

 

 

 

 

118.       Melek74
1506 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 02:54 pm

Given that the (scientific) jury is still out on whether Jesus even existed debating his mother´s hymen status is meaninful in literary context only. It´s like debating whether Hamlet was really psychotic or just pretending. What difference does it make in the long run, it´s fiction anyway.

119.       Merih
933 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 02:56 pm

 

Quoting armegon

 

 

 

 

 

 In versus 20, she says "how can I have a son while no man has ever touched me?"... it shows that she was a virgin.. regarding the interpretation, sorry but no relation to what it says... 

 

Anyway, it all depends on the person to believe.

 

 

120.       alameda
3499 posts
 14 Jan 2009 Wed 03:43 pm

 


 

"Anyway, it all depends on the person to believe."   Quoting Merih

 

to believe, have faith, is like having another sense....like sight.....hearing....if you don´t have it it´s  inconcievable.

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