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‘In Search of Islamic Feminism’ by Elizabeth Warnock Fernea
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[1] 2
1.       Trudy
7887 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 09:51 am

‘In Search of Islamic Feminism’ by Elizabeth Warnock Fernea
An activist holds up a placard with a slogan that reads “This shame isn’t mine” as she protests against honor killings in Turkey during a rally in Ýstanbul in 2004.
To the average person in the West, the concept of Islamic feminism seems a contradiction in terms. The preconception many of my visitors have is that Turkish women are either going to be fully covered in a burka, or wearing an outfit similar to Disney’s Princess Jasmine in Aladdin -- either completely secluded as the possession of a man, or satisfying an oriental fantasy.

 

Each of these is a far cry from feminism. But if we think a bit deeper we may remember television reports of women under the Taliban organizing secret home schools to teach girls to read and write, and recall the names and faces of female leaders in the Islamic world.

......

Often my Western visitors ask me if Turkish women are oppressed. Their preconceptions are challenged when they see women wearing Western clothes, and often they are challenged to rethink their ideas. I hear from my guests that they thought that women in all Islamic countries were oppressed and undervalued. They are pleasantly surprised when they visit Turkey.

 

Read more: http://www.sundayszaman.com/sunday/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165642

 

***********

Especially the last quoted paragraph got my attention: as if being oppressed or not is only depending on Western or non-Western clothing! Yes, I know that in different countries there are different ´types´ of Islam but to say that because of the clothing women in Turkey are not oppressed.... Tell that to all the girls who can´t go to school because there is no school nearby or whose parents doesn´t allow her to, tell that to the girls ´waiting´ to be married off - often for quite an amount of money, tell that to the girls who are threatened with ´honor´-revenge, for whom is no shelter after they run away from home because the government did not want to subsidize that shelter anymore, etcetera, etcera.

 

And no, don´t tell me it are only Kurds who do this, don´t tell me it is all them to blame. I know it isn´t, I have several Turkish friends (in and outside Turkey), from all over the country. Nice people but when talking about daughters they find it just very normal that the patents ´own´ their daughter! A mature country, a mature government takes responsibility for all its citizens and if there are groups/persons endangered the government should take action, should protect them. To me stopping honor killing is much, much more important to spend governmental money on than on a new highway or railroad! The latter are prestige objects, the former often cases of life or death.

2.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 02:42 pm

Trudy. I totally agree ... for example read my review about Ayþe Onal´s Honour Killings.

 

But read the 2 paragraphs I wrote together: they are talking about dress. People who haven´t been to Turkey think either the women will be like afghans under the Taliban OR the other end of the spectrum: sex objects as belly dancers. Normal dress challenges their preconceptions.

 

That is the whole point of Elizabeth Warnock Fernea´s book: "No preconceptions, please, let the muslim women explain in their own words what they think and want". She actually comes to the conclusion, after doing very detailed research, that many muslim women that we would view as feminists do not want to be called that, because to them feminism has negative connotations from what they see of the west.

 

I think you would enjoy reading this book ....

3.       Melek74
1506 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 03:34 pm

Thank you Trudy for this post, I´m going to look for the book, it definitely sounds very interesting.

 

What you wrote about people being surprised when visiting Turkey reminded me about another book I´ve read, "The Tales from the Expat Harem"which is a collection of writings about life in Turkey from the perspective of foreign women who settled there.

4.       Trudy
7887 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 03:42 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

Thank you Trudy for this post, I´m going to look for the book, it definitely sounds very interesting.

 

What you wrote about people being surprised when visiting Turkey reminded me about another book I´ve read, "The Tales from the Expat Harem"which is a collection of writings about life in Turkey from the perspective of foreign women who settled there.

 

Great book isn´t it? There is also a website about it (I cannot find the link anymore) with more stories amongst a very nice one about visiting a hammam.

5.       Trudy
7887 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 03:44 pm

 

Quoting MarioninTurkey

Trudy. I totally agree ... for example read my review about Ayþe Onal´s Honour Killings.

 

But read the 2 paragraphs I wrote together: they are talking about dress. People who haven´t been to Turkey think either the women will be like afghans under the Taliban OR the other end of the spectrum: sex objects as belly dancers. Normal dress challenges their preconceptions.

 

That is the whole point of Elizabeth Warnock Fernea´s book: "No preconceptions, please, let the muslim women explain in their own words what they think and want". She actually comes to the conclusion, after doing very detailed research, that many muslim women that we would view as feminists do not want to be called that, because to them feminism has negative connotations from what they see of the west.

 

I think you would enjoy reading this book ....

 

 I put it on my list of books I like to read/buy once, Marion.

6.       alameda
3499 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 05:44 pm

Sounds interesting....thank you for shareing it.

 

I found this interesting artcle about Elizabeth Fernea at Al-Ahram Weekly

 

 

7.       femmeous
2642 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 06:00 pm

 a very brave post, trudy. thank you.

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

Each of these is a far cry from feminism. But if we think a bit deeper we may remember television reports of women under the Taliban organizing secret home schools to teach girls to read and write, and recall the names and faces of female leaders in the Islamic world.

......

Often my Western visitors ask me if Turkish women are oppressed. Their preconceptions are challenged when they see women wearing Western clothes, and often they are challenged to rethink their ideas. I hear from my guests that they thought that women in all Islamic countries were oppressed and undervalued. They are pleasantly surprised when they visit Turkey.

 

Read more: http://www.sundayszaman.com/sunday/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165642

 

***********

Especially the last quoted paragraph got my attention: as if being oppressed or not is only depending on Western or non-Western clothing! Yes, I know that in different countries there are different ´types´ of Islam but to say that because of the clothing women in Turkey are not oppressed.... Tell that to all the girls who can´t go to school because there is no school nearby or whose parents doesn´t allow her to, tell that to the girls ´waiting´ to be married off - often for quite an amount of money, tell that to the girls who are threatened with ´honor´-revenge, for whom is no shelter after they run away from home because the government did not want to subsidize that shelter anymore, etcetera, etcera.

 

And no, don´t tell me it are only Kurds who do this, don´t tell me it is all them to blame. I know it isn´t, I have several Turkish friends (in and outside Turkey), from all over the country. Nice people but when talking about daughters they find it just very normal that the patents ´own´ their daughter! A mature country, a mature government takes responsibility for all its citizens and if there are groups/persons endangered the government should take action, should protect them. To me stopping honor killing is much, much more important to spend governmental money on than on a new highway or railroad! The latter are prestige objects, the former often cases of life or death.

 

 

8.       CANLI
5084 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 06:26 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 A mature country, a mature government takes responsibility for all its citizens and if there are groups/persons endangered the government should take action, should protect them. To me stopping honor killing is much, much more important to spend governmental money on than on a new highway or railroad! The latter are prestige objects, the former often cases of life or death.

 

 Ã completely agree with you Trudy.

But its not that easy, government cant do it alone

Here we still have this problem mainly in villages and the areas where the percentage of education is low.

Honor killing is prohibited its a killing and treated same as killing by the low

But in those places or mentality you would find that the whole family agree on such action, support it and try to keep it away from the eyes of law

When they caught, they go to jail or sentence to death according to their role in the murder.

And its not even different from religion to another...both Muslims and Christians from that criteria do it.

So i believe the solution would be to try to change those people mentality

And this would be by education...make the primary education is a must for boys and girls and who doesnt allow his children to school should be arrested.

And in holy places ´mosques, Churches..etc let the Ýmam, priests in Cuma and sunday pray make stress on the sinful of the honor killing so even people who are not educated and above the age can start questions their Traditions.

9.       femmeous
2642 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 07:23 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

But its not that easy, government cant do it alone

i agree. but goverment should initiate actions, make a severe punishment for the culprints, should conduct tv shows, should talk about and NOT sweep under the carpets.

 

Here we still have this problem mainly in villages and the areas where the percentage of education is low.

strange that you put a blame on poor villagers. you always find a scape goat. and you pay no attention to that its your (muslim) govs idea to keep villagers uneducated and primitive. because if they get educated they will stop obeying idiots in the gov.

and one thing i notice is that you make a difference between villagers and yourself, as if you are more civilised. the fact that you condone arranged marriages due to which many women commit suicide stands to your own backwardness.

 

Honor killing is prohibited its a killing and treated same as killing by the low

But in those places or mentality you would find that the whole family agree on such action, support it and try to keep it away from the eyes of law

where it says its prohibited? can you produce any law fragments?

 

When they caught, they go to jail or sentence to death according to their role in the murder.

its very rare, in fact most of them get away.

 

And its not even different from religion to another...both Muslims and Christians from that criteria do it.

ah, you poor, you again generalise? smuggling into one bag? you know it well that mostly it happens in muslim communities. i reckon more than 90%.

 

So i believe the solution would be to try to change those people mentality

lets start from yours, because when you change - they will change

 

And this would be by education...make the primary education is a must for boys and girls and who doesnt allow his children to school should be arrested.

we should arrest your gov.

 

And in holy places ´mosques, Churches..etc let the Ýmam, priests in Cuma and sunday pray make stress on the sinful of the honor killing so even people who are not educated and above the age can start questions their Traditions.

...

 

 

10.       CANLI
5084 posts
 01 Feb 2009 Sun 08:56 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 Seems it is essential to you to argue with me about anything even with no base to start with !

When i say sun rise from the East you argue that too as long as i am the one who said it.

Well, fine argue...but alone !

 

You never been to my country, you never lived there, you absolutely have no idea about what you are talking about but of course as usual that never stop you!

 

Ý stated the problem as it is in my community, i didnt cover it up as you said, no one asked me if we have it or not, and also i offered the solution as i see it .

Ý havent seen that you have said anything positive or productive, as usual your post contains criticism to others you did not come up with any opinion or idea that anyone can read and say...ohh yes that i/we can do !

 

 

Btw, my government isnt an islamic government ´and if it was that is not something that i would feel bad about ´ ,and i sure can get the law fragments about the killing

Honor killing ÝS a killing which is the defined by law as The act of terminating a life´murder´ and treated like one ´surprised?´

So sure i can get that material...but i wont...doesnt worth the time !

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