A "documentary" on the events of 1915 prepared by the Turkish army incites protest by NGOs and individuals. The nation-wide showing of the propaganda material in schools will instill hatred in a whole generation they warn.


The General Staff of the Turkish Army has prepared a six-part “documentary”, which was sent to all primary schools through the province authorities of the Ministry of Education. The DVDs are to be shown to children “at a convenient time”, and schools are to report back on the effects of the film by 2 March, so a letter sent to schools by the Ministry in January.

Rest of the story...

http://www.bianet.org/english/....m-will-create-racist-children

Still wonder why some of my country men the way they are?

have you seen the movie? How do you know it´s a propaganda material? Maybe it´s telling the truths?

Well, I am glad to see that there are Turks objecting to the idea. Obviously, many Turks see what is wrong with such an idea. But, then, have you seen the video by the way? I am just curious. It is wrong to use such a video in a classroom filled with young kids. Have you watched it though?

Well

I never ever counted some Turks as Turks anyway..

As I said in other posts..

All those racists call themselves real Turks..

It would be an insult to my Turkishness to be at the same level at them..

But I am glad you are enjoying their support..

That is the way it is supposed to be..

btw..You can find that disgustingly primitive video in youtube..

ps..see .. I told you.. you following my posts is quite educational for you.. How would you know these things if I did not post?.

So you have seen it? Can you post the link? let us ourselves decide if it is primitive.

What exactly is your "Turkishness" handsom? Can you define that for us? You keep talking about it. What is it about your so-called Turkishness versus the Turkishness of those who happen to be racists and nationalists. I have never really considered my own so-called Turkishness despite being a Turk.

And, no. Unufortunately, I don´t find your posts educative at all. They are at best amusing if not outright idiotic as I have said in the past.

Well

Look..

Just go and read abit or go and watch that movie before you try to comment and look more ridicilous..will you?

You dont even KNOW what I am talking about HERE..

Accept or not...I am sure you will go and search sari gelin in youtube and will see what a primary childeren are forced to watch....

That is your missing education..

I already told you I disagree with such a video. If I do come across it on youtube I will definetely watch it.

How about answering what you mean by your Turkishness versus the Turkishness of others. What do you mean by it?

Then why on earth you are here in this thread and arguing with me!!

BEING obsessed  with me wont do any good to you ?

My Turkishness verses racist´s Turkishness is not the topic here and It may take more posts and time than you can think..

But I can understand your curiousity about it as you have never had one..

What is propaganda and what is not? As I understand it, it´s the propagation of ideas. If you have an opinion on something and you express your opinion, you are spreading propaganda.

It is part of all our discourse. It´s been going on for thousands of years. It will not go away.

As for nationalism as I understand it, if you are to have a nation at all, you must have nationalists. There is no other way. Some call it being a patriot, others call it nationalism. In the end without some national pride and all that entails, you will not have a nation.

When things become xenophobic there is a problem.

I have found this link. Is that what you are talking about mr nice guy?

Now that you seen it, which parts did you find disgusting? Maybe you would like to share them here. Is it far from truth?

How am I arguing with you? I asked you if you had seen the video simply because I was curious as to whether you could provide the link so that we could watch it, too. I am not obsessed with you either. I also said that I would against the idea of showing such a video at schools. I just asked you to clarify what you mean by your so-called Turkishness, which you seem to avoid. You keep talking and refrring to this weird concept of Turkishness, and I am curious as to what you mean by it. And yes, I have none. I don´t have something called Turkishness. I was born in turkey. It is my mother land. My parents are Turkish. I really enjoy Turkish food. I hate the traffic in Turkey. I hate some of the policies and institutions that are in place in Turkey. Then, I love some other aspects of Turkey that I find nowhere else. Do I have a Turkishness or should I have one? I don´t know. Maybe, if you care to clarify what you mean by the term, I may be able to relate to it. 

loved it

How?

ok ok..my bad..I misunderstood your first post:

Well, I am glad to see that there are Turks objecting to the idea. Obviously, many Turks see what is wrong with such an idea. But, then, have you seen the video by the way? I am just curious. It is wrong to use such a video in a classroom filled with young kids. Have you watched it though?

I thought you were replying to Si++´s post as he said ´may be the film is telling the truth´

And of course I watched it..

And about Turkishness:

Please see my previous post..

will you?

If only the army minded it´s own business.... (wishful thinking?   )

Mr nice guy has not provided us with the disgusting things in the video yet.

Since the movie is about the Turks (or Muslims) killed by Armenians, I assume he´s referring the acts done by Armenians. Right handsome? Yes that may be harmful for the kids.

...

if what he is talking about is the Sari Gelin documentary, I can assure everyone that there is nothing racist about this movie. we have actually held a screening day for this documentary in my school to which lots of professors and students from all across the world attended. but then again, when you talk about the massacred Turks showing all the relevant documents, you`re being racist.

I must admit, you`re getting even lower day by day, theH.

See, if you keep posting logical and intellectual responses like this to handsom`s posts, two things are going to happen. He will accuse you of being brainwashed and of being a fascist racist. Either way, he will initiate the name-calling, and when you reply, he will complain about how you are not being decent and replying to his post with ideas. Double-standard is his second nature. His first nature is being eternally biased. Then he will bring upo this weird notion of `Turkishness`, and how his Turkishness differs from yours. He will say things like how he is proud not to have `Turkishness` like you do. I have asked him what he means by this Turkishness. But, he avoided the question, and suggested I read his reply. Go figure. I think the guy is just hardcore Turkish period.

Although I disagree with showing such a video in a classroom whether it is racist or not, I also notice the way handsome has, once again, avoided answering valid questions, such as what part of the video he finds `disgusting`or why the video is `racist`or primitive`.

I have high hopes for this thread. I am waiting for the name-calling show to start soon.

Be careful now si++, you are asking for trouble by being logical and intellectual.

You know very well how you will end up if you keep on this track. Logic, intelligence and knowledge are not allowed on this thread.

Remember that the only way you can respond to handsom`s thread is by agreeing with him.

Are you a fascist or what... Damn racist nationalists are all over the place these days ruining one thread after the other.

Mr. nice guy will surely teach you a lesson like he taught me one with his impeccable logic.

Propaganda or education?  If it is propaganda then I too have been a victim of it.  We were shown horrific film footage of jews in concentration camps in my history lesson, aged 10.  The images of hundreds of bodies being thrown into a grave are still in my head now...and certainly did nothing to improve my education, or nightmares, but certainly did not make me hate germans, only nazis.

If it WAS propaganda, it failed.  All it did was screw up the minds of young kids

 That´s terrible.  I don´t ever remember that part of WWII being on the syllabus for children of such a young age.  I´d be surprised if the school didn´t receive complaints.

This is a list of what is taught about WWII in primary schools nowadays.  Mainly from the perspective of effects on people in the UK, how it affected their lives etc.

(Ignore the fact that the list may look like links, I copied and pasted).

AS a primary school pupil I was always  believed that History was factual/truth, yet as one gets older the realisation sets in that, in some or even many instances, it may only be the "facts" from the viewpoint of the historian/author of the history books.

I can see how a very sensitive period of history might be seen as propaganda by some, depending on which side of the fence one is sitting.

 We used to get it here all the time too...(actually we still do)...One that comes to mind is the Cowboys and Indians games kids played....and the Indians were always the bad guys....we learned though. Even the Indian kids wanted to be the Cowboys....then they realized..."....hey, we´re Indians!"

The problem is we go through years of living with the ideas propagated through the propaganda before we re-evaluate things.

handsom and cynic, please, this is ridiculous !

We are grown up here, stop provoking each other and ending up in a childish war of calling names !

Ým sorry but that is how it is!

Stop using annoying words, you ´any of you´ know very well its effect on the other even sometimes it sounds innocent !

You can take it via pm´s and say whatever you like, but keep it here to the topic.

Anything that is not related to the topic will be deleted.

I did not want to be in a slang match from my part..

But when people get obsessed with certain individuals this happens I guess..

I am not the one trawling the threads and wrote identical non-related posts to the topics..

Sort it out with the ones who do it..

 Handsom, now you are taking it to another match of..it wasnt me who started it thing !

Ýf you want to continue discussing this, take it via pm´s to cynic or mods/admins and not post it here

Every unrelated post to the topic will be deleted

This forum is about Politics, and  that is what will going to be discussed here !

Thank You.

It is not another match..

Of course I did not start it..

Look at the threads.. I am posting something ´some individuals´ replying with critisizing me only..

Nothing what so ever with the topic itself!!

Eee..

it happens once, it happens twice..

When it happens for the third time, they get what they deserve..

Either you will see those in the first place and interfere or if you are not, do not complain about me when I reply and   try to portray  it as if two street boys are fighting..

It was not..

Anyway..

Excuse me but why do you keep deleting my posts?

you are posting something , accusing me of doing something and then you are saying ´I am not allowing you to answer my post´..

phew!!

Ok handsom now you had your last word, i guess we can move on with the thread now !

 We were shown those films as well, several times during primary school.

If I close my eyes I can easily recall the images.

There are some nazi groups today denying entirely what happened during the war, and I think that the films are shown to the public so that no one will forget the cruelties however it should not be shown to children.

To this day loads of Danes are still skeptical towards Germans.

Of course the first thing about this incident is the army´s involvement in it..

Turkish Armed forces have financed everything apperantly. 

The second argument will be its content..

Almost ever section of this so called documentary mentions ´Armenians who wrote the darkest pages of history´, ´Religion was always a toll for Armenians to terrorize´,  ´Armenian got their identity with the assasinations´, ´history of Armenians are full of genocides done to Turks´, ´Armenians have  traditions of terrorism and assasinations´ etc etc..

You can not force 15 million childeren to watch this movie..

You should not be!!

This is how fascism enters into education in Turkey. Straight into hearts like a knife..

(Then later on, everybody thinks the way they are thinking is nothing to do with fascism.) 

End of the documentry the conclusion is ´Armenians belongs to an evil race and they should be exterminated straight away´.

Basically we are trying our bests to form a racist, ´enemy of armenians, enemy of the israel, enemy of west´ youth.

And all these are done under the name of patriotism and Turkishness..

If this is not a sheer alltogether racism then what it is?..

That is how you create racist killers from childeren.

That is why the guy who killed Hrant Dink shouted proudly to the cameras ´I have killed an Armenian´.

 As strange as it feels, I agree with some of the things you said. It is rare that we agree. I don´t thin this is something that should be shown to kids in a school environment, especially at an age when they cannot make proper judgements without being influenced. I am not against the army funding it or the video itself existing. However, if parents feel like their children should see this video, they should  be the ones to make that decision. Not the army or the Ministery of Education. Parents can always go out and buy the video, and show it in the privacy of their homes. School  is not the place for this sort of documentary unless they are willing to show other documnetaries representing the opposing views.

What I don´t understand is why are you stirring things up like an Armenian here? Are you Armenian actually? ´cause you are just acting as one here. You defend them just like an Armenian. And you easily get going after a statement against them. I can feel your discomfort on this issue.

I guess this part your post is not related to topic itself..

I am sure Canli will come and delete your post for that reason...

I am adding you into the  ´members who are obsessed with certain individuals´ list.. 

You make me ask it that way. I saw CANLI in the past asking the same question to you. Apperantly she thought the same things about you.

Again, it is nothing to do with the topic..

Ohh..are you saying that Canli herself has been going off the topic? (and I am sheepishly waiting for canli to come and sort this out.. )

I have added your name in that list with a pencil and now I am looking for a pen...

Who cares? I had added you to my list long time ago. You are late.

you both will see when Canli wakes up..

Yeah, let´s wait and see, mr nice guy.

Well that is what she said to me when she was deleting my posts..

If she does not delete yours, she will be in a difficult situation to explain why she deleted what she deleted..

Then she should go and delete her own post as well if that is something to be deleted. In the past she didn´t delete the similar post of herself.

Opps.

She wont like what you are saying up there.. tut tut tut.. 

I am still hoping she will come here and delete all posts which are not related to the topic..

 does she sleep during the day and deletes us during the night?

vamp?

 are you crazy? canli deleting her own post?  thats against egyptian law!

cynic pls keep any personal inputs or remarks ´negative´ toward other member of the forum, i have deleted that post.

Thank you.

still stinking like a rotten fish, I see...

Thread locked because of some members´ inability to discuss the topic without resorting to yet another slanging match.