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A Striking Poll About Turks!
(253 Messages in 26 pages - View all)
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10.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 06:17 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 This is horrendous reading!  70% have never read a book??? Wow did they not go to school?  And the attittudes, I must say I am quite shocked by this report.

 

The URL does not work, I wanted to find out who they targeted and how many particpated.

 

I wouldn´t mind betting the number of illiterate people in the UK would come as a shock to a lot of people (and - no - I don´t personally have any idea how many there are)  And we are (or were) supposed to have one of the best education systems in the world. 

 

Sorry - this might be a bit offtopic - just pointing out that Turkey would not be the only country were a lot of people haven´t read a book

 

I found something: here  ´An "unacceptably high" number of adults cannot read, write or add up, despite billions of pounds being spent on improving basic skills, MPs have warned´



Edited (2/23/2009) by lady in red [added link]

11.       chiko
135 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 06:23 pm

 

Quoting adana

Interesting read,if it was conducted in my country the polltakers probably would receive the same results as far as reading goes.

I have some questions concerning this survey

1.How representative is the number 6482 for the whole Turkish population?

2.Why in this article I can´t find anything about respondents,their age,sex,social  and economic status?{#lang_emotions_unsure}These data are important to form an opinion.

3.What is the percentage of University goers and school kids in Turkey

Grateful if someone could provide an answer

 

They must be using one of survey methods or many of them together. you can call them to get details  Konda is the best survey company of turkey, belive me they are not traitor and believe me what the Guardian does is not trying to divide Turkey as most turkish would think

12.       Trudy
7887 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 07:29 pm

Interesting post Chiko! Thanks.

 

And still no comments from erm.... the ´real´ Turks? lol lol

13.       mltm
3690 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 08:14 pm

This survey does not reveal a new thing. It´s not very interesting. Everyone who lives in or knows Turkey knows about these.

Turkish population is not homogene, and it´s 70 million.  the number of people who are literate and woman equalist are as well millions which is as many as some of the small countries´ population.

-Some 73% opposed allowing foreigners to own Turkish land or property

Is this xenophobia??? 

 

-while nine out of 10 said they had never taken a holiday abroad.

Could this be simply because they do not have money even for a holiday in their own country?

 

-Just under 70% said they never read books

This one is worrying, but nothing new. We all know already that education is a major problem in Turkey.

 

-72% said they never or rarely bought new hi-tech products as soon they appeared on the market.

Could the reason be again financial???

 

 

-Many also expressed fears that Turkey´s neighbours planned to carve up the country.

Well, just compare where Turkey geographically stands and where Germany stands. It´s not paranoia.

 

-Nearly 70% said wives needed their husband´s permission to work while 57% believed that a female should never leave home wearing a sleeveless top. More than half - 53% - favoured allowing women judges, prosecutors, teachers and other public servants to wear the Islamic headscarf on duty, something Turkey´s secular constitution forbids.

These are worrying results which we already know. I guess in these 6000 people surveyed there were people coming from every background.

 

-While 88% agreed that Turkey should be governed by democracy "under each and every condition", this was undermined by the significant proportion - 48% - who said the military should intervene "when necessary".

So???? This is not worrying. They did not say "sharia".

 

14.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 08:23 pm

I can´t believe any of this

It is all a nasty vicious lie, designed to alienate the evil west from Turkey.  Chiko!  I am surprised you posted this evil nazi propaganda! {#lang_emotions_get_you}

15.       adana
416 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 08:32 pm

 

Quoting chiko

 

 

They must be using one of survey methods or many of them together. you can call them to get details  Konda is the best survey company of turkey, belive me they are not traitor and believe me what the Guardian does is not trying to divide Turkey as most turkish would think

 

 I do not undermine credibility of Konda and straightforward facts provided by this poll.What I undermine is article itself ,a typical example of decline of journalistic standards,for me informative article is giving background for such kind of survey.And this article lacks it seriously.That is why I came up with my questions.

Talking about xenophobia in the light of financial problems and visa requirements for Turks introduced by most of countries changes its understanding provided in the article.

Without data  about interviewed ones and their socio-economic background it turns into trival editorial.



Edited (2/23/2009) by adana [adding sth]
Edited (2/24/2009) by adana [like changes]

16.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 08:39 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

I can´t believe any of this

It is all a nasty vicious lie, designed to alienate the evil west from Turkey.  Chiko!  I am surprised you posted this evil nazi propaganda! {#lang_emotions_get_you}

 

 Go back to your laundry, woman!!{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

17.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 09:10 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

 

 Go back to your laundry, woman!!{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 OK

18.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 10:35 pm

 

-Some 73% opposed allowing foreigners to own Turkish land or property

Is this xenophobia??? 

 

Yes it is..

 

-while nine out of 10 said they had never taken a holiday abroad.

Could this be simply because they do not have money even for a holiday in their own country?

Agreed on this..

 

-Just under 70% said they never read books

This one is worrying, but nothing new. We all know already that education is a major problem in Turkey.

Agreed on this too..Even daily news paper circulation is quite low..Somehow everybody relied on crap tv news and coffee house chats about the politics

 

 

-72% said they never or rarely bought new hi-tech products as soon they appeared on the market.

Could the reason be again financial???

I am not sure on that..They follow the technology very well regardless their financial situation when it comes to mobile phones..

 

 

-Many also expressed fears that Turkey´s neighbours planned to carve up the country.

Well, just compare where Turkey geographically stands and where Germany stands. It´s not paranoia.

It is a paranoia. Because of our geographical position, do we need spend our lives with that pumped up fear? There is a  deliberate fuelling by the nationalists. 

 

-Nearly 70% said wives needed their husband´s permission to work while 57% believed that a female should never leave home wearing a sleeveless top. More than half - 53% - favoured allowing women judges, prosecutors, teachers and other public servants to wear the Islamic headscarf on duty, something Turkey´s secular constitution forbids.

These are worrying results which we already know. I guess in these 6000 people surveyed there were people coming from every background.

Results to cry for..

 

-While 88% agreed that Turkey should be governed by democracy "under each and every condition", this was undermined by the significant proportion - 48% - who said the military should intervene "when necessary".

So???? This is not worrying. They did not say "sharia".

That is deeply worrying..

19.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 23 Feb 2009 Mon 11:54 pm

 

Turks are xenophobic, socially conservative people who rarely read books, relegate women to second-class status and harbour ambivalent views about democracy, contentious new research has revealed.

A fine example of bogus journalism. The article offers no information as to the demographic breakdown of the participants, the list of the questions, how the wording was done, and how & where, as well as according to what criteria, the participants were selected. Nevertheless, the repsonses of the 6000 something people were immediately distorted & interpreted as Turks having conservative & xenophobic attitudes. Turks are so conservative that any night club in any of the 3 major cities, Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara, where a significant portion of the whole population resides, would be filled with girls dressed in the most provocative manner in mini skirts, see-thoughs, visible thongs etc causing instant woodies among the opposite gender. It is so conservative that the public beaches, as well as the resort areas, tolerate both micro-bikinis and topless sun-bathers. So conservative that nipple-see-throughs & accidental upskirt incidences are a part of the daily repertoire for most of the female tv show hosts. So xenophobic that tourists are welcomed and treated warmly by Turks. So conservative that, it is the only Muslim country in the world, where 99 percent are Muslims, and yet they consume quite a bit alcohol. So conservative that, while I have to get my liquor from a state-liquor store in Canada, as well as in many US states, an 8 year-ol can run to the local convenience store to buy a six-pack of beer or a bottle of whiskey for his father without any hassle. So conservative, by Islamic standards, that Turkey produces, consumes & exports its own beer, wine, raki and vodka. So conservative that you can buy & eat pork products freely. So heretic that you can actually buy liquor almost 24 hours of the day in the 3 major cities. In Canada, for example, the state-liquor store does not open until 12 am on Sundays in honour of acknowledging the obligation of going to church on Sundays. Then, after five hours, the store closes at five in the afternoon, and one cannot get alchohol anywhere else but at a bar or a restaurant. Supermarkets do not sell alchohol in many provinces and states, as well.

 

Some 73% opposed allowing foreigners to own Turkish land or property, while nine out of 10 said they had never taken a holiday abroad. Just under 70% said they never read books, and 72% said they never or rarely bought new hi-tech products as soon they appeared on the market. Many also expressed fears that Turkey´s neighbours planned to carve up the country.

How exactly is the opinion of 73% being against foreigners owning land & property in Turkey interpreted as xenophobia anyway?  This is like asking women if they think their breasts are too small, and interpreting the answers as 73% of women want breast implants. After all, although Turks are apparently xenophobic & against foreigners owning land in Turkey, quite a few of them must be content with selling property to foreigners, as Antalya is filled with Russian land & property owners, Bodrum with Brits, Germans & Italians, and Istanbul with many other property-owning foreigr devils. Abramovich recently purchased a huge coastline - a flat out sea-front strip - in Antalya. Israelis have been buying huge tracts of land in southeast Turkey for God knows how long. The Bodrum area is filled with property owning foreigners, who actually happen to be living there throughout the year, rather than just in the summers (so much for xenophobia by the way.) A lot of the old, stone buildings in the most trendy & historic parts of Istanbul are quite often bought & renovated by foreigners, who seem to be living there unaware of this xenophobia. Someone is selling these properties, right? I mean, it is not as if these foreign Tasmanian devils are just confiscating them...

 

It is also not surprising that 9 out of 10 had never been abroad on vacation. Taking into consideration that 9 out of 10 visa applications that Turks submit to visit the European countries are arbitrarily rejected by the non-xenophobic Europeans, no wonder these Turks didn´t have a chance to travel abroad yet.

 

Regarding the comment about not or never buying new high-tech products as soon as the products hit the market, I guess only a prime degree moron could show the capacity to interpret this as a clear sign of being conservative. Are North Americans more liberal for buying every single gadget that is shoved down their throats at BestBuy on their credit cards only to find out 3 months later that there is now ´a better & more high-tech model´ available at the stores?

 

Nearly 70% said wives needed their husband´s permission to work while 57% believed that a female should never leave home wearing a sleeveless top. More than half - 53% - favoured allowing women judges, prosecutors, teachers and other public servants to wear the Islamic headscarf on duty, something Turkey´s secular constitution forbids.

Well, well... I guess this 70% must have been out on vacation when Turkey elected a female prime minister, Tansu Ciller, or when women gained the right to vote in elections before countries like Switzerland passed a similar legislation. Women in Turkey are considered so second-class that they could vote as early as 1930. France, on the other hand, provided that priviligae to their women in 1944; Greece in 1952; Liechtenstein in 1984; Monaco in 1962; San Marino in 1959; and Switzerland in 1971. Some of these countries are also yet to have a female prime minister or leader elected by the way. Go figure!

 

"The data shows that women aren´t free in their private lives," Erdem said."The data shows that women aren´t free in their private lives," Erdem said.

I wonder if he has bothered to ask the female participants directly rather than drawing indirect conclusions from questions related to asking for permission to work. After all, he could have a question asking women if they feel free in their private lives. I highly doubt if this question was part of the poll.

 

On a more positive, or rather amusing note though, just to cheer you fellows up a bit from all these bad things that you have been reading about polls proving that Turks are conservative xenophobes bent on oppressing their womenfolk, I watched a different kind of poll on one of the North American channels the other day. It was conducted as part of a Canadian comedy show. People in random US cities were asked to provide the exact date of the 911 attacks. Obviously, the show producers were expecting that most participants would make the connection between the date of the event and the name 911 in the sense that 9 referred to September, and 11 was the 11th day of that month. While fake laughter bombs were constantly played in the background, I think a good 70 percent of the participants couldn´t come up with the date.

 

How do you guys think this poll should be interpreted? 

 

 

Quoting chiko

Turks reveal xenophobic, conservative attitudes in poll

Turks are xenophobic, socially conservative people who rarely read books, relegate women to second-class status and harbour ambivalent views about democracy, contentious new research has revealed.

The unflattering picture has emerged from a survey by one of Turkey´s most respected polling organisations, Konda, which interviewed 6,482 people.

Some 73% opposed allowing foreigners to own Turkish land or property, while nine out of 10 said they had never taken a holiday abroad. Just under 70% said they never read books, and 72% said they never or rarely bought new hi-tech products as soon they appeared on the market. Many also expressed fears that Turkey´s neighbours planned to carve up the country.

Nearly 70% said wives needed their husband´s permission to work while 57% believed that a female should never leave home wearing a sleeveless top. More than half - 53% - favoured allowing women judges, prosecutors, teachers and other public servants to wear the Islamic headscarf on duty, something Turkey´s secular constitution forbids.

While 88% agreed that Turkey should be governed by democracy "under each and every condition", this was undermined by the significant proportion - 48% - who said the military should intervene "when necessary". The powerful armed forces have toppled four elected governments in coups in the past 50 years.

The survey, entitled Who Are We?, was conducted on behalf of Hurriyet, one of Turkey´s biggest selling newspapers, renowned for its secularist outlook.

Tarhan Erdem, senior analyst with Konda, said the research was aimed at understanding ongoing social transformation and seeing whether Turkey was the country many of its people thought they knew. The high support for military intervention showed Turks had reservations about democracy, he said, while attitudes towards women exposed a lack of gender equality. "The data shows that women aren´t free in their private lives," Erdem said.

Ahmet Insel, a columnist with Radikal newspaper, said opposition to foreign travel and property ownership stemmed from a preoccupation with the 1919-1923 war of independence that established modern Turkey.

"We think the war of independence is still under way, so it´s no surprise we are xenophobic. We´re still fighting foreigners," he said.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/23/turks--conservative-poll

 

 

 

 



Edited (2/24/2009) by cynicmystic

20.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 24 Feb 2009 Tue 12:59 am

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 

How do you guys think this poll should be interpreted?

 

 

I dont think anybody has questions about the poll´s finding here.

And I am not sure any of the Turks in TC or even in Turkey will challenge the results.

I am not an expert on how polls should be conducted but Konda is one of the most trustworthy research companies in Turkey.

I think the values from the poll should not be questioned as if it is a result of bogus journalism.

Mltm´s answers were the best and honest answers for example..

She is not questioning if 48% is right down there for instance. She is questioning if it is worrying or not.

significant proportion - 48% - who said the military should intervene "when necessary".
So???? This is not worrying.

 

ps..I am laughing by myself here right now..

I am hoping that some of Turks will join and they will start posting long articles and maps about great Israel and  a secret zionist plans to buy lands in south east of Turkey. And you will see with your own eyes how xenophobic some are..

 


 



Edited (2/24/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (2/24/2009) by thehandsom

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