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Þart - sA
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1. |
12 Mar 2009 Thu 04:51 am |
à think i understand how to use it and the meaning when its added to verbs, but i find myself a bit confused when it comes to ad and sýfat ´nouns and adjectives´
ad/ sýfat + sA + kiþi eki
ad/ sýfat deðil + se + kiþi eki
Eðer þiþmansanýz rejim ve spor yapmalýsýnýz. Ãf you are fat you should make deit and play sport.
Çok yorgun deðilsen arabayla biraz daha gezelim. Let´s practice driving the car a little if you are not very tierd.
à guess i got those well,
But this, i dont understand what is the DA
Ãs it past , or is it de state ?
ad + DA + (y) sA + kiþi eki
ad + DA deðil / yoksa + sA + kiþi eki
Ps: For þart with verbs and more you can find it here
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_7888
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_30240
Edited (3/12/2009) by CANLI
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2. |
12 Mar 2009 Thu 11:41 am |
Both of them past also state.
Past :
He came . O gel-di.
State :
Also he came. O da geldi.
Ne sen neDE o. Neither you nor he.
State :
He´s at house. O ev-de.
He´s sleeping at couch. Koltuk-ta uyuyor.
He´s at work. O iþ-te.
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3. |
12 Mar 2009 Thu 05:39 pm |
Thank you,
So in here its both past and DA state, or just DA state ?
Ayþe´ye telefon et, eðer evdeyse bu akþam onu ziyarete gidelim.
Selen iþte deðilse (yoksa) mutlaka evdedir.
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4. |
12 Mar 2009 Thu 06:13 pm |
Thank you,
So in here its both past and DA state, or just DA state ?
Ayþe´ye telefon et, eðer evdeyse bu akþam onu ziyarete gidelim.
Selen iþte deðilse (yoksa) mutlaka evdedir.
It´s the noun state, the past is -di, not -da.
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5. |
12 Mar 2009 Thu 11:12 pm |
Yes, thank you, all clear now about it.
Ãts 2 cases when we use it with nouns and adjectives,
Regular one, and with DA state one.
à guess i mixed things up, i was thinking about how to form ´Ã¾art´ sA in past with nouns, like.
Ãf i were a doctor, i would have earned more money.
Can we use this form ?
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6. |
13 Mar 2009 Fri 08:16 am |
Yes, thank you, all clear now about it.
Ãts 2 cases when we use it with nouns and adjectives,
Regular one, and with DA state one.
à guess i mixed things up, i was thinking about how to form ´Ã¾art´ sA in past with nouns, like.
Ãf i were a doctor, i would have earned more money.
Can we use this form ?
-se/-sa is a suffix for verbs
The one used with nouns (you are asking about) is a mutated form of the one used with old Turkish ermek verb (means to be).
Over time er-se has become:
erse > ise > -se (both ise and -se can be used in today´s Turkish)
similarly
erdi > idi > -di
ermiþ> imiþ > -miþ
ergen > iken > -ken
So
ise or -se/-sa = if ... am/are/is
güzel ise or güzelse = if it/he/she is beautiful
iyi ise or iyiyse = if it/he/she is good
... idi ise or ... idiyse = if ... was/were ...
güzel idi ise or güzeldi ise or güzeldiyse = if it/he/she was beautiful
iyi idi ise or iyiydi ise or iyiydiyse = if it/he/she was good
Now be careful the past form above cannot be used for hipothetical sentences. We insead need to use olmak for that purpose.
So
güzel olsa idi or güzel olsaydý = if it/he/she were beautiful
iyi olsa idi or iyi olsaydý = if it/he/she were good
So for "If I were a doctor" you need to say:
Doktor olsam or doktor olsa idim or doktor olsaydým
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7. |
13 Mar 2009 Fri 10:36 pm |
But this, i dont understand what is the DA
Ãs it past , or is it de state ?
ad + DA + (y) sA + kiþi eki
ad + DA deðil / yoksa + sA + kiþi eki
past is not -da past is -dý/di
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8. |
13 Mar 2009 Fri 11:25 pm |
Thank you si
Then we use olmak in that case
But dont we use past with nouns ?
Ad/ sýfat + DI ?
Ãn that case how do we use þart ?
past is not -da past is -dý/di
Yes caliptrix, i know
Seems i got very confused because i was late and have much to study with little time in a head of me and felt the whole world on my shoulders so thought or saw it ad past form...donna know how
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9. |
13 Mar 2009 Fri 11:51 pm |
Thank you si
Then we use olmak in that case
But dont we use past with nouns ?
Ad/ sýfat + DI ?
Ãn that case how do we use þart ?
I think sometimes we can use "[ad] idiyse" but I don´t think that is the step you are supposed to learn right now. Forgive me if I look priggish, but I think sometimes you ask things you will never need to use
A very rare usage (It was very difficult to find this example to me)
Eðer gelen kiþi sen idiysen, Ahmet gelmedi demektir.
If the person who came was you, that means Ahmet didn´t come
"sen idiysen" or "sendiysen" you may change the word "sen" by a name
Eðer gelen kiþi Ahmet idiyse, Mehmet gelmedi demektir.
Eðer getirdikleri eþya masa idiyse, sandalyeler götürülmemiþ demektir.
If the thing they brought here was the table, then it means chairs weren´t brought
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10. |
14 Mar 2009 Sat 12:01 am |
I think sometimes we can use "[ad] idiyse" but I don´t think that is the step you are supposed to learn right now. Forgive me if I look priggish, but I think sometimes you ask things you will never need to use
Glad that we dont have to use it
When you study you find other question bombing into your head
So when i was studying Þart i saw that
We can add zaman to Þart when we use it with verbs
And when i came to nouns, i thought if we can use it in past too or not ?
Thats it
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11. |
23 Mar 2009 Mon 01:44 am |
ad/ sýfat + sA + kiþi eki
ad/ sýfat deðil + se + kiþi eki
Thats is what my book said about the Þart form with nouns and adjectives
But my teacher said, when there is any zaman eki ´DI, mIþ, AcAk, sA ´ added to noun or adjective, there should be (y) buffer after the vowel, and that goes too in Þart case
Meaning it should be,
ad/ sýfat + (y) sA + kiþi eki
Ãyiyse for example and not iyise
So, is this what th correct form should be then?!
ad/ sýfat + (y) sA + kiþi eki
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12. |
23 Mar 2009 Mon 01:57 am |
if the last letter is a vowel, it becomes -yse/-ysa
adjective;
iyi ; last letter is "i" ; "i" is a vowel; then it becomes -yse; iyiyse
güzel; last letter is "l"; "l" is NOT a vowel; then it is -se; güzelse
noun;
araba; the last letter is "a"; it is a vowel, then it becomes -ysa: arabaysa
ev; the last letter is "v", it is not a vowel, then is it -se; evse
try to make the same thing with the adjectives;
sarý, kýrmýzý, mavi, yeþil
büyük, küçük, uzun, kýsa, az, çok
and nouns;
bilgisayar, sandalye, uçak, aðaç, fýrýn, tepsi
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13. |
03 Apr 2009 Fri 01:27 pm |
I keep laughing everytime I see a word "imported" from Arabic, "þart" in Arabic means "in condition that" !!
and most of all, the sign = in turkish is "eþit", that word ain´t in Arabic, but It´s in our freakin´ Moroccan "Accent" (which is our familiar arabic language), which means "what´s left is :". although I know that Ottomans have never get to Morocco. that must be weird !!
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