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Þart - sA
(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       CANLI
5084 posts
 12 Mar 2009 Thu 04:51 am

Ý think i understand how to use it and the meaning when its added to verbs, but i find myself a bit confused when it comes to ad and sýfat ´nouns and adjectives´

 

ad/ sýfat + sA + kiþi eki

ad/ sýfat  deðil + se + kiþi eki

 

Eðer þiþmansanýz rejim ve spor yapmalýsýnýz. Ýf you are fat you should make deit and play sport.

Çok yorgun deðilsen arabayla biraz daha gezelim. Let´s practice driving the car a little if you are not very tierd.

 

Ý guess i got those well,

But this, i dont understand what is the DA

Ýs it past , or is it de state ?

 

ad + DA + (y) sA + kiþi eki

ad + DA   deðil / yoksa + sA + kiþi eki

 

Ps: For þart with verbs and more you can find it here

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_7888

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_30240



Edited (3/12/2009) by CANLI

2.       songlessbird
26 posts
 12 Mar 2009 Thu 11:41 am

Both of them past also state.

 

Past :

 

He came . O gel-di.

 

State :

 

Also he came. O da geldi.

Ne sen neDE o. Neither you nor he.

 

State :

 

He´s at house. O ev-de.

He´s sleeping at couch. Koltuk-ta uyuyor.

He´s at work. O iþ-te.

 

3.       CANLI
5084 posts
 12 Mar 2009 Thu 05:39 pm

Thank you,

 

So in here its both past and DA state, or just DA state ?

 

Ayþe´ye telefon et, eðer evdeyse bu akþam onu ziyarete gidelim.

Selen iþte deðilse (yoksa) mutlaka evdedir.

 

 

4.       Melek74
1506 posts
 12 Mar 2009 Thu 06:13 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

Thank you,

 

So in here its both past and DA state, or just DA state ?

 

Ayþe´ye telefon et, eðer evdeyse bu akþam onu ziyarete gidelim.

Selen iþte deðilse (yoksa) mutlaka evdedir.

 

 

 

It´s the noun state, the past is -di, not -da.

5.       CANLI
5084 posts
 12 Mar 2009 Thu 11:12 pm

Yes, thank you, all clear now about it.

 

Ýts 2 cases when we use it with nouns and adjectives,

Regular one, and with DA state one.

 

Ý guess i mixed things up, i was thinking about how to form ´Ã¾art´ sA in past with nouns, like.

 

Ýf i were a doctor, i would have earned more money.

 

Can we use this form ?

6.       si++
3785 posts
 13 Mar 2009 Fri 08:16 am

 

Quoting CANLI

Yes, thank you, all clear now about it.

 

Ýts 2 cases when we use it with nouns and adjectives,

Regular one, and with DA state one.

 

Ý guess i mixed things up, i was thinking about how to form ´Ã¾art´ sA in past with nouns, like.

 

Ýf i were a doctor, i would have earned more money.

 

Can we use this form ?

 

-se/-sa is a suffix for verbs

The one used with nouns (you are asking about) is a mutated form of the one used with old Turkish ermek verb (means to be).

 

Over time er-se has become:

erse > ise > -se (both ise and -se can be used in today´s Turkish)

similarly

erdi > idi > -di

ermiþ> imiþ > -miþ

ergen > iken > -ken

 

So

ise or -se/-sa = if ... am/are/is

güzel ise or güzelse = if it/he/she is beautiful

iyi ise or iyiyse = if it/he/she is good

 

... idi ise or ... idiyse = if ... was/were ...

güzel idi ise or güzeldi ise  or güzeldiyse = if it/he/she was beautiful

iyi idi ise or iyiydi ise or iyiydiyse = if it/he/she was good

 

Now be careful the past form above cannot be used for hipothetical sentences. We insead need to use olmak for that purpose.

 

So

güzel olsa idi or güzel olsaydý = if it/he/she were beautiful

iyi olsa idi or iyi olsaydý = if it/he/she were good

 

So for "If I were a doctor" you need to say:

Doktor olsam or doktor olsa idim or doktor olsaydým

 

 

 

7.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 13 Mar 2009 Fri 10:36 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

But this, i dont understand what is the DA

Ýs it past , or is it de state ?

 

ad + DA + (y) sA + kiþi eki

ad + DA   deðil / yoksa + sA + kiþi eki

 

past is not -da past is -dý/di

 

 

8.       CANLI
5084 posts
 13 Mar 2009 Fri 11:25 pm

 Thank you si

Then we use olmak in that case

But dont we use past with nouns ?

 

Ad/ sýfat + DI ?

Ýn that case how do we use þart ?

 

Quoting caliptrix

 

 

past is not -da past is -dý/di

 

 

 

Yes caliptrix, i know

Seems i got very confused because i was late and have much to study with little time in a head of me and felt the whole world on my shoulders so thought or saw it ad past form...donna know how {#lang_emotions_shy}

 

9.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 13 Mar 2009 Fri 11:51 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 Thank you si

Then we use olmak in that case

But dont we use past with nouns ?

 

Ad/ sýfat + DI ?

 

Ýn that case how do we use þart ?

 

I think sometimes we can use "[ad] idiyse" but I don´t think that is the step you are supposed to learn right now. Forgive me if I look priggish, but I think sometimes you ask things you will never need to use

 

A very rare usage (It was very difficult to find this example to me)

Eðer gelen kiþi sen idiysen, Ahmet gelmedi demektir.

If the person who came was you, that means Ahmet didn´t come

 

"sen idiysen" or "sendiysen" you may change the word "sen" by a name

Eðer gelen kiþi Ahmet idiyse, Mehmet gelmedi demektir.

 

Eðer getirdikleri eþya masa idiyse, sandalyeler götürülmemiþ demektir.

If the thing they brought here was the table, then it means chairs weren´t brought

10.       CANLI
5084 posts
 14 Mar 2009 Sat 12:01 am

 

Quoting caliptrix

 

 

I think sometimes we can use "[ad] idiyse" but I don´t think that is the step you are supposed to learn right now. Forgive me if I look priggish, but I think sometimes you ask things you will never need to use

 

 

 Glad that we dont have to use it lol

When you study you find other question bombing into your head

So when i was studying Ãžart i saw that

We can add zaman to Þart when we use it with verbs

And when i came to nouns, i thought if we can use it in past too or not ?

Thats it

 

11.       CANLI
5084 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 01:44 am

 

Quoting CANLI

ad/ sýfat + sA + kiþi eki

ad/ sýfat  deðil + se + kiþi eki

 

 Thats is what my book said about the Þart form with nouns and adjectives

But my teacher said, when there is any zaman eki ´DI, mIþ, AcAk, sA ´ added to noun or adjective, there should be (y) buffer after the vowel, and that goes too in Þart case

 

Meaning it should be,

ad/ sýfat + (y)  sA + kiþi eki

Ýyiyse for example and not iyise

 

So, is this what th correct form should be then?!

ad/ sýfat + (y)  sA + kiþi eki

12.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 01:57 am

if the last letter is a vowel, it becomes -yse/-ysa

 

adjective;

iyi ; last letter is "i" ; "i" is a vowel; then it becomes -yse; iyiyse

güzel; last letter is "l"; "l" is NOT a vowel; then it is -se; güzelse

noun;

araba; the last letter is "a"; it is a vowel, then it becomes -ysa: arabaysa

ev; the last letter is "v", it is not a vowel, then is it -se; evse

 

try to make the same thing with the adjectives;

sarý, kýrmýzý, mavi, yeþil

büyük, küçük, uzun, kýsa, az, çok

 

and nouns;

bilgisayar, sandalye, uçak, aðaç, fýrýn, tepsi

13.       damas17
10 posts
 03 Apr 2009 Fri 01:27 pm

I keep laughing everytime I see a word "imported" from Arabic, "þart" in Arabic means "in condition that" !!

and most of all, the sign = in turkish is "eþit", that word ain´t in Arabic, but It´s in our freakin´ Moroccan "Accent" (which is our familiar arabic language), which means "what´s left is :". although I know that Ottomans have never get to Morocco. that must be weird !! Laugh atLaugh atLaugh atLaugh at

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