"[...]Turkish society can be broadly divided into three subgroups, which I describe as follows: Atatürk supporters (secularists), Islamic fundamentalists and modern Islamicists[...]."

 http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=170536

Alpha and omega, Charlotte McPherson

Charlotte is talking through her head....There is only one Islam, and what that is -  is clearly defined in Kuran. What does not fit the Koran´s description of Islam, is not islam at all.

Terms like modern Islam or modern islamists  (Islamicists ?)  are  merely figments of Western imagination.

 This is exactly why your religions become so confusing and laughable.  You have Professors of Islamic Studies who disagree with you Alpha!  What is "clearly defined in the Quran"?  As far as I have observed, there is much argument within Islam about translations, interpretations and "true" versions of the Quran.

My I be so bold as to suggest you are "talking through your head"?

I dont see anything confusing or ambiguous about islam, and I agree that there is just one islam just like there is just one christianity. you`re either a muslim or not, there is nothing in between being a muslim or non-muslim.

what does moderate islam mean anyway? does it mean drinking alcohol but not eating pork? these two things are clearly banned in kuran. if you drink alcohol, that doesnt make you a moderate muslim but simply a non-muslim. If you`re a woman and if you think you`re equal to men, you`re neither a muslim or christian, because both kuran and bible clearly state that women are inferior to men.

 these two books were not written by women for sure ...I did not know you are such an expert on the Bible topic,anyway is stating that women should obey men equal with the statement you provided?

Cannot argue about Quran but if you fancy one battle over Bible..why not..

Biblical references promoting female inferiority:

	1 Corinthians 11:3: "...Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and the head of Christ is God. (NIV)". There is some debate among theologians about the translation of the Greek word "kephale" as "head." However that word is universally used in New Testament translations.
	1 Corinthians 11:7-9:"For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." (NIV) This refers to the practice of women wearing hair covering as a sign of inferiority. This is not longer widely observed today.
	1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (NIV) This is a curious passage. It appears to prohibit all talking by women during services. But it contradicts verse 11:5, in which St. Paul states that women can actively pray and prophesy during services. Many theologians have concluded that verses 14:33b to 36 are a later addition, added by an unknown counterfeiter with little talent at forgery. Bible scholar, Hans Conzelmann, comments on these three and a half verses: "Moreover, there are peculiarities of linguistic usage, and of thought. [within them]." 6 If they are removed, then Verse 33a merges well with Verse 37 in a seamless transition. Since they were a later forgery, they do not fulfill the basic requirement to be considered inerrant: they were not in the original manuscript written by Paul.
	Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife...wives should submit to their husbands in everything." (NIV)
	1 Timothy; various passages: Conservative theologians date this "pastoral epistle" as having being written prior to 65 CE, and assign its authorship to Paul. Liberal theologians generally believe that it was written by an unknown author during the first half of the second century, a half-century or longer after St. Paul´s execution. If the latter is true then the epistle´s many passages reflecting female inferiority can be attributed to a gradual reinstatement of patriarchal authority by the early Church. Some of these passages are: 1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..." (NIV) Some Biblical scholars believe that woman and man should be replaced by wife and husband in the above passage. This would mean that the passage would not refer to women teaching men in the church, but rather wives teaching their husbands within the home. 5 1 Timothy 3:2: "Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife..." (NIV) This would seem to imply that all overseers (bishops) must be male. 1 Timothy 3:8: "Deacons likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere..." (NIV)
	Titus 1:6: "An elder must be blameless, a husband of but one wife" (NIV). Women are apparently excluded from the position of elder or bishop.
	Titus 2:4: "...train the younger women...to be subject to their husbands." There is no indication of equal power sharing in marriage.
	1 Peter 3:7: Women are referred to as "the weaker vessel" in comparison to their husbands

Quoting tamikidakika

 

 

Biblical references promoting female inferiority:

	1 Corinthians 11:3: "...Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and the head of Christ is God. (NIV)". There is some debate among theologians about the translation of the Greek word "kephale" as "head." However that word is universally used in New Testament translations.
	1 Corinthians 11:7-9:"For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." (NIV) This refers to the practice of women wearing hair covering as a sign of inferiority. This is not longer widely observed today.
	1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (NIV) This is a curious passage. It appears to prohibit all talking by women during services. But it contradicts verse 11:5, in which St. Paul states that women can actively pray and prophesy during services. Many theologians have concluded that verses 14:33b to 36 are a later addition, added by an unknown counterfeiter with little talent at forgery. Bible scholar, Hans Conzelmann, comments on these three and a half verses: "Moreover, there are peculiarities of linguistic usage, and of thought. [within them]." 6 If they are removed, then Verse 33a merges well with Verse 37 in a seamless transition. Since they were a later forgery, they do not fulfill the basic requirement to be considered inerrant: they were not in the original manuscript written by Paul.
	Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife...wives should submit to their husbands in everything." (NIV)
	1 Timothy; various passages: Conservative theologians date this "pastoral epistle" as having being written prior to 65 CE, and assign its authorship to Paul. Liberal theologians generally believe that it was written by an unknown author during the first half of the second century, a half-century or longer after St. Paul´s execution. If the latter is true then the epistle´s many passages reflecting female inferiority can be attributed to a gradual reinstatement of patriarchal authority by the early Church. Some of these passages are: 1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..." (NIV) Some Biblical scholars believe that woman and man should be replaced by wife and husband in the above passage. This would mean that the passage would not refer to women teaching men in the church, but rather wives teaching their husbands within the home. 5 1 Timothy 3:2: "Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife..." (NIV) This would seem to imply that all overseers (bishops) must be male. 1 Timothy 3:8: "Deacons likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere..." (NIV)
	Titus 1:6: "An elder must be blameless, a husband of but one wife" (NIV). Women are apparently excluded from the position of elder or bishop.
	Titus 2:4: "...train the younger women...to be subject to their husbands." There is no indication of equal power sharing in marriage.
	1 Peter 3:7: Women are referred to as "the weaker vessel" in comparison to their husbands

 you did your homework Tami but anyway .....

Jesus´ radical treatment of women:

Christ overthrew many centuries of Jewish law and custom. He consistently treated women and men as equals. He violated numerous Old Testament regulations, which specified gender inequality. He refused to follow the behavioral rules established by the three main Jewish religious groups of the day: the Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees. "The actions of Jesus of Nazareth towards women were therefore revolutionary." ₁ Some examples are:

	He ignored ritual impurity laws: Mark 5:25-34 describes Jesus´ cure of a woman who suffered from menstrual bleeding for 12 years. In Judean society of the day, it was a major transgression for a man to talk to a woman other than his wife or children.
	He talked to foreign women: John 4:7 to 5:30 describes Jesus´ conversation with a woman of Samaria. She was doubly ritually unclean since she was both a foreigner and a woman. Men were not allowed to talk to women, except within their own families. Jesus also helped a Canaanite woman, another foreigner, in Matthew 15:22-28. Although he described non-Jews as "dogs", he was willing to talk to her, and is recorded as having cured her daughter of demon-possession.
	He taught women students: Jewish tradition at the time was to not allow women to be taught. Rabbi Eliezer wrote in the 1st century CE: "Rather should the words of the Torah be burned than entrusted to a woman...Whoever teaches his daughter the Torah is like one who teaches her obscenity." 5  Jesus overthrew centuries of tradition. In Luke 10:38-42, he taught Mary, sister of Martha.
	He used terminology which treated women as equal to men: Luke 13:16 describes how he cured a woman from an indwelling Satanic spirit. He called her a daughter of Abraham, thus implying that she had equal status with sons of Abraham. "The expression ´son of Abraham´ was commonly used to respectfully refer to a Jew, but ´daughter of Abraham´, was an unknown parallel phrase...It occurs nowhere else in the Bible." 4 It seems to be a designation created by Jesus. Luke 7:35 to 8:50 describes how Jesus´ forgave a woman´s sins. He refers to women and men (i.e. "all" people) as children of wisdom.
	He accepted women in his inner circle: Luke 8:1-3 describes the inner circle of Jesus´ followers: 12 male disciples and an unspecified number female supporters (Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna and "many others.") It would appear that about half of his closest followers were women.
	He appeared first to one or more women after his resurrection: Matthew 28:9-10 describes how Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" were the first followers of Jesus to meet him after his resurrection. (However, this account is contradicted by passages in 1 Corinthians, which state that the first person to see Jesus was Cleopas, Peter or all of the disciples.)
	Women were present at Jesus´ execution: Matthew 27:55-56 and Mark 15:40-41 describe many women who followed Jesus from Galilee and were present at his crucifixion. The men had fled from the scene. (John 19:25-27 contradicts this; the author describes John as being present with the women.)
	He told parallel male/female stories: The author of the Gospel of Luke and of Acts shows many parallel episodes: one relating to a woman, the other to a man. For example: Simeon and Hannah in Luke 2:25-38 Widow of Sarepta and Naaman in Luke 4:25-38 Healing of a man possessed by a demon and the healing of the mother of Peter´s wife, starting in Luke 4:31 The woman who had lived a sinful life and Simon, starting in Luke 7:36 A man and woman sleeping together in Luke 17:34 Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11 Dionysius and Damaris in Acts 17:34 Lydia and the jailer´s conversion in Acts 16:14-34 The book "Women in the Earliest Churches" lists 9 additional parallels. 3 Author Ben Witherington III quotes H. Flender: "Luke expresses by this arrangement that man and woman stand together and side by side before God. They are equal in honor and grace; they are endowed with the same gifts and have the same responsibilities." Some theologians have speculated that the author of the Gospel of Luke might well have been a woman.

He expressed concern for widows: Jesus repeated the importance of supporting widows throughout his ministry. The Gospel of Luke alone contains 6 references to widows: (Luke 2:36, 4:26, 7:11, 18:1, 20:47 and 21:1)

Divorce: In Jesus´ time, a man could divorce his wife, but the wife had no right to divorce her husband. This practice is supported by seven  references in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) in which a husband can unilaterally give his wife a bill of divorce. There were no references to a woman giving her husband such a bill. In Mark 10:11-12, Jesus overthrows this tradition and states that neither spouse can divorce the other; he treats the wife and husband equally.

Selection of his disciples: There are three conflicting lists of the names of the 12 disciples that Jesus selected. In all cases, the disciples were male. He later selected a total of 70 disciples; the gender makeup of the latter group was not recorded. Some might well have been female. In his defense, he might have chosen only single people because he wanted disciples who were unencumbered with spouses. In first century CE Jewish culture, unmarried women traveling with men would cause so much criticism that the reception of Jesus´ teaching by the public might have been impossible.

Levirate Marriage: In Mark 12:18-27 Jesus answered a question posed by some Sadducees. They described a woman who was widowed and required to marry her brother-in-law. This was called a "Levirate" marriage. Their first-born son will be considered to be the son of the deceased husband. In this case, they imagined that seven brothers-in-law married her in succession without having a son. Jesus could have used the opportunity to preach on the unfairness and sexism implicit in this requirement of Jewish law (from Deuteronomy 25:5-1. After all, the woman was not allowed to refuse to marry any of the brothers, even if she despised some of them. Levirate marriage often involved serial rape. But Jesus is not recorded as having condemned the practice. Again in his defense, he might have criticized Levirate marriage at the time, but his words might not have been considered significant the Gospel writers who thus might not have recorded Jesus´ comments. Alternately, they might have recorded Jesus criticism of Levirate marriage in the original, autograph copy of their Gospels. However, a later copyist might have deleted the passage.

There are two passages where Jesus deviates from his usual practice of treating women equally:

Treatment of Mary Magdalene:

In Matthew 28:1-7, after Jesus´ resurrection, "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary" receive the first apostolic commission of any human - to tell the good news of the  resurrection to the disciples. This is reinforced by Jesus´ appearance before the two women. The two Marys were thus the first apostles.

The The Nazarene Way of Essenic Studies comments:

"Mary Magdalene is mentioned in the Gospels as being among the women of Galilee who followed Jesus and His disciples. She was present at His Crucifixion and Burial, and went to the tomb on Easter Sunday to anoint His body. She was the first to see the Risen Lord, and to announce His Resurrection to the apostles. Accordingly, she is referred to in early Christian writings as ´the apostle to the apostles´." ₈

 There is not just ONE Christianity!!! There are hundreds of different ones, all with different rules.  Just one Islam?  So how come they can never agree on anything then?  Ask a Saudi muslim a question and you will get a completely different answer to a Turkish muslim

 I agree with this completely - but try telling that to our "moderate" Turkish muslims

 Which is why religion is so laughable and so obviously "invented" by men!

Both the Bible and the Quran were written in a time when men WERE superior in status, had slaves, had many wives and concubines..... this is why it is ridiculous to follow both "book" to the very letter. 

 And - risking to insult, sorry I´ll take that chance - people who do and STILL in the 21st century think that women are inferior I call backwards.