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Freedom of Speech
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1.       catwoman
8933 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 07:11 pm

The question of freedoom of speech on this site...

I am quoting a post from the other thread so that we continue this discussion here.

 

Quoting Kiara

It may be called "Freedom of Speech" but regardless, insulting a countries nation values (especially on a site where Turkish people (and others) are trying to help teach their language to people) is not only inappropriate, but it is kinda rude Neutral. We forget that the word "freedom" doesn´t necessarily mean that we say or do whatever we want....because then we take away other people´s freedoms by our actions. We should always be careful with our freedoms so that we don´t infringe on the freedoms of others Big smile.

 

First of all, I think that imposing one set of "national values" on all the Turkish and non-Turkish but interested in Turkey people is called dictatorship. There is a lot of Turkish people whose ideas are different then the mainstream ones, and not respecting those people and their freedom to express their ideas and concerns means that the country is oppressive towards their own citizens.

 

Second of all, we do NOT affiliate this site with ANY political ideas. We simply think that everybody should be able to say freely what their thoughts are.. which brings us to number three..

 

Third of all, you mentioned that sometimes our personal freedom infringes on the freedom of others. That is true. Some opinions are not tolerated by us and most human societies, because they imply harm to some groups of people. For example, we do not tolerate nazism or fascism because they are hateful in their nature. That´s why our rules say that racism, sexism and other forms of hatred are not tolerated on this site.

2.       Trudy
7887 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 07:23 pm

Biggest question is what is insulting? What an insult is for person A might be very well the truth by person B. Is it for those who think that every form of critisism is an insult only acceptable if people say ´Hallelujah, Turkey is great, Turkey is the best?´

 

I do love Turkey - the culture, nature, people, food - I´ve been there 7 times now and I sure will go back more. Still I do see as well situations that are NOT ok and I won´t stop expressing my opinion about that. The same as I love my own country and see the things that are not good here. I will never say to anyone, national or not, they cannot critisize my country because I think that critisism only makes people stronger - one can learn from it!

3.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 08:35 pm

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 insulting our national values can not be accepted.

you have never warned these ppl, that s why u are still responsible.

 

 

Why?  This is a serious question.  Why do you take criticism of your country so badly, yet feel so free to criticise other countries?  Criticism is not "insulting", it is not personal, it is not meant to offend.  It is a healthy thing in, or about, any country.  There is even an expression "healthy criticism"!!!  I am interested to know..is it comparable to a "family" situation, i.e. it is ok for YOU to criticise your brother, but completely unacceptable for someone else to do it?

 

Your comment above smacks of the mentality that results in censorship and banning of sites such as YouTube. 

 

You would prefer people here to only talk of what they love about Turkey and hide their negative feelings on some topics behind big smiles?

 

This is a serious question - would like a serious answer not a defensive bat!



Edited (3/31/2009) by TheAenigma

4.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 08:53 pm

Quoting Kiara

It may be called "Freedom of Speech" but regardless, insulting a country´s national values (especially on a site where Turkish people (and others) are trying to help teach their language to people) is not only inappropriate, but it is kinda rude Neutral. We forget that the word "freedom" doesn´t necessarily mean that we say or do whatever we want....because then we take away other people´s freedoms by our actions. We should always be careful with our freedoms so that we don´t infringe on the freedoms of others Big smile.

 

 

 Kiara I don´t think you have thought through the implications of what you are saying.  The word freedom DOES mean we should be able to say whatever we want.  There is nothing wrong AT ALL in insulting a "country´s values" - it is not personal and is not in any way comparable to insulting someone personally.

 

To remain silent about any country´s values or deeds is to give silent acquiescence.  For example, would you stand by and watch a woman being stoned to death as a government´s punishment and say nothing about it for fear of seeming inpolite?

 

Countries who censor criticism can only have something to hide, in my opinion.



Edited (3/31/2009) by TheAenigma

5.       Trudy
7887 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 09:05 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 Countries who censor criticism can only have something to hide, in my opinion.

 

 So true!!!

6.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 01 Apr 2009 Wed 12:10 am

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 Kiara I don´t think you have thought through the implications of what you are saying.  The word freedom DOES mean we should be able to say whatever we want.  There is nothing wrong AT ALL in insulting a "country´s values" - it is not personal and is not in any way comparable to insulting someone personally.

 

To remain silent about any country´s values or deeds is to give silent acquiescence.  For example, would you stand by and watch a woman being stoned to death as a government´s punishment and say nothing about it for fear of seeming inpolite?

 

Countries who censor criticism can only have something to hide, in my opinion.

 

seconded!

Some people here see no difference between expressing judgement and insults. Let me use Janis´s example in another thread - he says he feels compelled to protect his homeland when somebody criticised his national anthem. He should by all means do so, but his right to defend what he likes shouldn´t mean that people must like the anthem. It´s just a song, some people like it, some don´t. Just like kokoreç.

 

Saying you don´t like honour killings, policy towards Kurds or the YouTube ban is not insulting, is it? If somebody showed up saying (it´s an example not what I think!) "All Turks are stupid, dirty and pathetic" That would be an insult and a lie of course. As long as you´re expressing your opinion and do it basing on your moral/ethical grounds, what´s wrong with that?

7.       adana
416 posts
 01 Apr 2009 Wed 01:07 am

This thread"Freedom of speech"in TCL brought Orwell´s Animal farm quote to my mind

"ALL PIGS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME PIGS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS´

8.       femmeous
2642 posts
 01 Apr 2009 Wed 11:21 am

now, cat and her freedom of speech lol. what a paradox!

9.       femmeous
2642 posts
 01 Apr 2009 Wed 11:23 am

it is not about freedom of speech we should talk about. we all know about it but perceive it different. according to the majority of turks the freedom of speech works only to one direction.

 

it is about turkish paranoia

10.       bydand
751 posts
 01 Apr 2009 Wed 11:39 am

 

Quoting femmeous

it is not about freedom of speech we should talk about. we all know about it but perceive it different. according to the majority of turks the freedom of speech works only to one direction.

 

it is about turkish paranoia

 

 Or western paranoia with turkish paranoia. <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'>

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