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N. Korea sentenses 2 U.S. reporters to 12 years of labor
(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       teaschip
3870 posts
 08 Jun 2009 Mon 07:16 pm

The U.S. has received lots of negative feedback for how we handle illegal immigrants.  We typically handle it by giving them a free ride back to their country.  For some, it´s even their first plane ride.  But yet where is the outcry when 2 reporters are sentensed for 12 years of labor?  Our country gets ridiculed on how we handle immigrations, however the world seems silent when it´s another country.

 

What if I parked my boat on the beach in France or how about Italy?  Would they welcome me with open arms?  I don´t think so.  How would they handle it?  So when I reflect on the repercutions illegals face entering the U.S.  I would hardly say a free trip ride back home is anything but cruel..

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_nkorea_journalists_held

2.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jun 2009 Mon 07:54 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

The U.S. has received lots of negative feedback for how we handle illegal immigrants.  We typically handle it by giving them a free ride back to their country.  For some, it´s even their first plane ride.  But yet where is the outcry when 2 reporters are sentensed for 12 years of labor?  Our country gets ridiculed on how we handle immigrations, however the world seems silent when it´s another country.

 

What if I parked my boat on the beach in France or how about Italy?  Would they welcome me with open arms?  I don´t think so.  How would they handle it?  So when I reflect on the repercutions illegals face entering the U.S.  I would hardly say a free trip ride back home is anything but cruel..

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_nkorea_journalists_held

 

 Actually most do not get a free trip back home.  They might get a "free plane ride" after spending years in jail.  Some who are in immigration detention centers are not even illegal.

 

From Amnesty International

"Mr. W., a US citizen, was placed in immigration detention in Florence, Arizona. According to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, he was born in Minnesota and had never left the United States in his life. Because he was detained, he did not have access to his birth certificate, and was working in the prison kitchen for a dollar a day to earn the thirty dollars it would cost to order a copy of his birth certificate. Mr. W. was finally released after being detained for over a month."

 

 

"Mr. B, a 57-year-old lawful permanent resident of the United States for more than forty years with US citizen children and grandchildren, spent four years in mandatory detention while fighting deportation. In August 2003, he pled guilty to two misdemeanors and received probation. As part of his probation, he was required to check in with a probation officer, and he did so regularly. Before Thanksgiving in 2003 his probation officer asked him to come in and when he did so, ICE officers arrested Mr. B based on the misdemeanor convictions and sought to deport him, claiming that his convictions constituted aggravated felonies under immigration law. "I was in complete shock and kept asking my probation officer why I was being taken away. I had never heard of ICE." Mr. B told Amnesty International. His wife returned home from work that day to a voicemail that said she should pick her husband´s car up. She told Amnesty International "My husband didn´t call me for two or three days. I didn´t know what was happening. No one would tell me." Although an immigration judge ruled that his convictions were not aggravated felonies, he remained in detention while his case went through several government appeals. In November 2007, the federal court of appeals found that Mr. B was not an aggravated felon and ordered his immediate release. Although he was no longer subject to deportation, ICE refused to release Mr. B unless he paid bond. Mr. B told Amnesty International "My tears came down my eyes because I learned that I would not be released unless I paid $10,000. I didn´t know why." Mr. B´s wife raised this money from family and friends; after his release, however, ICE did not return the bond money for over five months. When Mr. B finally received it, his family had to use the money to pay bills. He is still trying to pay back his friends and family, and his daughter has moved back into the home to help him and his wife financially


- Amnesty International interview with Mr. B and his wife (identities withheld), January 2009"

3.       teaschip
3870 posts
 08 Jun 2009 Mon 09:06 pm

Actually, Alamada you are wrong..although many do spend  time in our jail system waiting to return to their country, I would hardly compare it to N.Korea sentensing of 12 years of labor.  If the world wants to view harsh punishment to illegals they need to look at N. Korea and other countries who have much harder sentensing.  But then again, maybe we should adopt these tactics like N. Korea has and this would slow down illegals entering our country.

4.       teaschip
3870 posts
 08 Jun 2009 Mon 09:07 pm

Let me guess those in detention centers are also innocent..They never committed a crime.<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

5.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jun 2009 Mon 09:36 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

Actually, Alamada you are wrong..although many do spend  time in our jail system waiting to return to their country, I would hardly compare it to N.Korea sentensing of 12 years of labor.  If the world wants to view harsh punishment to illegals they need to look at N. Korea and other countries who have much harder sentensing.  But then again, maybe we should adopt these tactics like N. Korea has and this would slow down illegals entering our country.

 

 Teaschimp.....I am not condoning what N Korea has done, but when you compare our treatment of "illegals" ...many of whom are not even "illegal", as people who get free tickets home, I have to correct your statement.

 

What part of this did you not understand?:

 

"Mr. W., a US citizen, was placed in immigration detention in Florence, Arizona. According to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, he was born in Minnesota and had never left the United States in his life. Because he was detained, he did not have access to his birth certificate, and was working in the prison kitchen for a dollar a day to earn the thirty dollars it would cost to order a copy of his birth certificate. Mr. W. was finally released after being detained for over a month."

 

"Where are your paper"s?........maybe as a blondie...you don´t need them? 

 

I personaly know people who didn´t look "right", who are American citizens, but were incarcerated until they could proove their US citizenship..... The fact of the matter is the US is a multiracial, multicultural society.  I guess you have to have an "acceptable" photo ID at all times.

 

Two wrongs do not make a right.

6.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jun 2009 Mon 09:38 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

Let me guess those in detention centers are also innocent..They never committed a crime.<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

 Some did, some did not.....ever heard the concept "Innocent until prooven guilty".  A fair trial?

 

Here is something to review.....

 

Bill of Rights

 

In particular the

 

Fifth Ammendment



Edited (6/8/2009) by alameda [add]

7.       teaschip
3870 posts
 09 Jun 2009 Tue 05:50 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

 

 Teaschimp.....I am not condoning what N Korea has done, but when you compare our treatment of "illegals" ...many of whom are not even "illegal", as people who get free tickets home, I have to correct your statement.

 

What part of this did you not understand?:

 

"Mr. W., a US citizen, was placed in immigration detention in Florence, Arizona. According to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, he was born in Minnesota and had never left the United States in his life. Because he was detained, he did not have access to his birth certificate, and was working in the prison kitchen for a dollar a day to earn the thirty dollars it would cost to order a copy of his birth certificate. Mr. W. was finally released after being detained for over a month."

 

"Where are your paper"s?........maybe as a blondie...you don´t need them? 

 

I personaly know people who didn´t look "right", who are American citizens, but were incarcerated until they could proove their US citizenship..... The fact of the matter is the US is a multiracial, multicultural society.  I guess you have to have an "acceptable" photo ID at all times.

 

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

 Teaschimp...hahaha  <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)  I prefer Teaschamp actually.

But if you wish to call me a chimp, I am perfectly fine with it.  Chimps are cute...<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast) 

And yes, you are required to show proof of citizenship, identity or visa if you are employed in the U.S., drive a car or detained by the police.  Maybe next time Mr.W will be wise enough to have one of these documents with him.



Edited (6/9/2009) by teaschip

8.       teaschip
3870 posts
 09 Jun 2009 Tue 05:52 pm

Paperwork?  Most U.S. citizens carry their social security card or drivers license on them to proove identity.  This is nothing new in the U.S. to have these forms of identity on you at all times.

 

Bye the way, what does this have to do with my original post about sending illegals back home?

9.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jun 2009 Tue 10:23 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

Paperwork?  Most U.S. citizens carry their social security card or drivers license on them to proove identity.  This is nothing new in the U.S. to have these forms of identity on you at all times.

 

Bye the way, what does this have to do with my original post about sending illegals back home?

 

 Because it does not have a photo, a social security card is not a valid ID for identification purposes.  Everyone does not have drivers licenses because everyone does not drive.  There are some who can not afford to purchase an ID.  Another option is a passport, but then again, some can not afford them.  Who is going to pay for the IDs of all those people?

 

Do you carry your drivers license when you take a walk,  jog, swim....IOW...do you have it on you at all times?  Think about it.  I at times walk to visit my neighbors and don´t bring anything with me but myself and the cloths on my back.  Too often people have been incarcerated or "sent back" to places they have nothing to do with when, for instance, going to pick their children up from school.

 

What it has to do with your post is the error in your post. 

 

"I would hardly say a free trip ride back home is anything but cruel.."

 

You indicated people get a free trip back home.  I contend it´s not exactly a "free trip".  It´s  unfortunate, but too many profit from the "illegals" in many ways, those who exploit their labor and those who incarcerate them in for profit.  

 

Here you can look up the photo on people´s drivers license...give it a try

10.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 10 Jun 2009 Wed 12:37 am

I´m neither American nor Korean, moreover, I come from a country illegal immigrants are a marginal phenomenon as most of them are trying to get to Germany and beyond, Poland being a short stop on the way; yet I believe both of you have a point. I´m sure the US system of handling illegal immigrants is far from perfect, incidents like those Alameda quoted do happen, but I bet they constitute a tiny percentage of all illegal immigrant cases.

 

I wonder if any country has a flawless system.

 

As for IDs, I remember during communism every citizen had to carry an ID with him/her. Are they really that expensive in the US? In Poland they cost peanuts

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