Yesterday there was a program on Belgium television about the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam. I sadly haven´t seen it, I was too late. But I found that declaration with all 25 articles and I have some questions. Maybe someone can explain them? Canli?

The most important question for me is: if all human rights are subject to the Islamic Shariah, what is then left of human rights? What is such a declaration worth if not democracy but religion (i.e. clerics!!) tell how to act, to think.

For me it´s the same as a hardcore Christian party (we have one like that in my country - very small happily, only 2 seats out of 150 in Parliament, so no power), who says that the control of the state must be done according to the Bible and that a theocracy is the best form of government.

So don´t get me wrong, I´m not - repeating NOT - accusing anyone of anything, but while I do know how people think (here) about such a Christian party and their ideology, I do not know how people look at the Islamic version of it.

Do you think it is possible to maintain all human rights, including equality for everyone (man, woman, straight, gay, old, young etc), to develop a true and honest society with education possibilities, healthcare, elderly people care, freedom of speech, freedom of voting, unions, freedom of choice and more when religion predicts how to act?

I would love to hear some opnions. Enlighten me please.

My personal opinion on the matter is that, although a country can "base" its laws on some religious concepts like "Thou shall not kill" or "Thou shall not steal" ect.....the mixing of religion and government should never, never, never happen.  

Trudy, there is not a simple answer to your question(s). We should start by remembering that there is not just one type of person. If elaborate on this, we could conculde there is not just one type of society either.

What makes this world a colorful place to live in is the fact that there are indeed myriad of colors some of which don´t appeal to us and some just the other way around.

There is a certain mistake which is quite easy to make: trying to find the ultimate answer to the question although it surely does not exist. We must understand that there are people in this world who willingly have chosen to believe in either God or Allah no matter how irrational this may seem to be. Just like we mustn´t criticize those who feel they are a part of the nude camp community we musn´t criticize those who are more religious than us.

As long as we can let everyone share their lives freely, there is nothing to be afraid of. I therefore have no problems with Buddhists, Muslims, Pagans or you name who as long as they do not decide on the limits of my own freedom.

And that´s exactly my point (and problem): if laws are based on relious beliefs (no matter what) they WILL decide on the limits of my freedom. I´m not religious so when I´m forced to live under that kind of ´human rights´, then I do not have freedom at all.

I have never heard of such a declaration before, but it sounds like a joke anyway.

what these primitive minds can`t understand is that religion is not a worldly matter and it can`t be applied to worldly matters like politics and laws. If you want to believe in fake prophets and their fake books, it`s your choice. you can also worship cows or satan, but I have every right not to worship a cow.

Adopting human rights into religion is a contradiction in itself. you can`t be both a religious person and and defender of gender equality or human rights at the same time.  If you are a christian/jewish/muslim and female, you`re inferior to men and you accept it because it`s clearly written in the book you believe in. You can`t change it, you can`t manipulate it , there is not something called moderate christianity or moderate islam.

what do you think about the Irish law banning blasphemy? According to this law, no one in Ireland can criticize the christian god, but we see little to no criticizm about this. Is it less of a violation of freedom of speech when a christian country does it?

 Difficulties with reading, canim? I said to me all religions are the same. It´s you making a difference. Feeling attacked?

 That you haven´t heard of it, doesn´t make it untrue!

Inserting links doesn´t work for me ( I guess all capacity for that has been used by someone else...), so here is the url:

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/cairodeclaration.html 

attacked by what? I asked why the law banning blasphemy in Ireland doesn`t get any criticism from the christian world. you have difficulties with understanding what you read?

did I say it`s untrue? I just said I have never heard of it before, and it sounds like a joke. how did you get the idea that I called it untrue?

 A little edgy, canim? Take a deep breath and relax!

I`m quite relaxed. can i spam you sometime?

 Sry Trudy for being late, im not around much, you mean 1990 deceleration?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam ?

 Yep.

 Trudy, I´m afraid the freedom you desire is an illusion.  Everything is subject to "rules".  What would an egg be with out the (boundry) of the shell ? 

 Breakfast

 A chicken

 A frittata

 A baby

 A snake...............

  (Do you have more?)

 Fried

 Spider

The law is actually against criticising ANY religious beliefs/gods, not only the Christian one, probably that´s why the criticism is scarce As far as I know atheists complained about it

There you go

"Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern proposes to insert a new section into the Defamation Bill, stating: “A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000.”

“Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter “that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.”

Where a person is convicted of an offence under this section, the court may issue a warrant authorising the Garda Síochána to enter, if necessary using reasonable force, a premises.

Sorry again for being late, actually we are in Þaban now and very much close to Ramazan with normaly many things to do at that time of the year so things become abit hectic and time more tight...

What you’ve asked is not a question that i can answer while just passing by TLC to check things , to answer such question it would take time to try to explain things our way/point of view ‘ and it did’ specially that im just a normal simple Muslimah not very educated one in Ýslam and not imam too, but i guess that is what you are asking ... what would a normal person think

So im just representing a regular muslim point of view i believe.

As for the declaration as itself...for us as muslims, its not saying anything new, its just stating what we already know in 1,2,3 way

Maybe it was a way to put things into papers for countries to sign or something and maybe to offer others good understanding about what we believe !   

From here i should start by small introduction about our faith that will make it ‘i hope’ more easier for you to understand how we see things.

First, we believe that God a holly divine ....creator, cant be described by the avarage words nor knowledge that we have, HE has no alike so that we can describe, not a man nor a woman.. creator of the all forms that we know and we dont even know too, so by that logic HE is more greater than what ever things HE creat, greater than human so HE cant be one, greater than the sun/ the moon so HE cant be one either...just greater than what ever HE creat, so HE cant be any form less or equal to HÝS creation!

We as human are the highest creation of HÝS creatures, thats why we carry the responsibility of the living... we are akýllý

Since the time ALLAH created Adam..HE was supporting us ‘humans’ giving us the rules that we follow according to our understanding and development too

As a creator its normal and also logical that HE set the rules for us.

Even we as humans do this too in our countries by the goverments which rules those countries, we set the rules .

And  we as individuals follow those rules when we live in a country we follow its rules represented in the law, we dont change the constitution of the country according to what everyone of us like, we as a whole  just follow them  and those rules, law were set by human not God who actually created us and the earth we living on too !

Anyway, that was a side point...

Second, Ýslam is not just a religion in the form of faith... its both faith and constitution of life.

Meaning, Ýn Ýslam we dont just learn that no God but ALLAH and Muhammed SAV is HÝS last messenger.

Ýts not just about praying, zekat, fast, hac and how to form them, its not just about what are the sins that we shouldnt do and what are the goods that we should do...

Ýts also a law, way of life, constitution of the Muslims...for example if we do sin ‘X’ the punishment would be ‘X’ and in order to apply that punishment there are some evidence must be available for the judge or else judge cant apply that punishment and if this happen or that happened it would be ‘y’ not ‘X’ ....etc

So you see every Muslim know that, because as you know our resource of Ýslam are just 2 Qur’an and Sunna ‘Hadith’

Those rules or constitution are in Quran so no muslim would disagree on that...we all know that, we all believe in that

So we already have our rules, our conistitution that we should follow and we know we should follow even at same time not many of us may follow.

As human rights are granted to you by your constitution, also human rights are granted to us by our constitution ‘Quran and Sunna’

Ýts not seperated, its something with in it...in Ýslam everythings are organized, written, same as in any civil constitution you know

Ýts deal with our daily life issues also same as in any law set by human and you accept...its not messing anything.

Because as i explained its not just a faith but also constitution.

So from here, i have explained 2 points of our believe

1.    God have no alike...not man, not woman or whatever.

2.    Muslims have believe that Quran and Sunna are our constitution .

When we believe in something  we dont pick, you dont take what you like and abandon what you dont like...if you do that you would destroy the whole idea from that faith

The core !

You just cant reform what God sent ‘Ýf you believe HE is God and if you truly believe HE sent that’by other that you like except if God HÝMSELF reform it and find a way to tell you about it...and as no angels walk in the streets i would find it hard to be done !

Meaning, Ýf you believe in God and that your religion is sent by HÝM how come you would refuse to follow what this God ordered you ?!

HE is not a friend of yours so you agree or disagree with, HE is God, The creator, if you believe this, then you should follow what HE order, if you disagree, and you dont follow, then you dont believe HE is God and the creator there is no other way around i believe.

Not logic that you would think you know better than God, would it ?!

Ýn that case, if you think you should reform what God said because they are not suitable or something, then i would respect it more and find it more honest and also logical if the you ‘in general term’ say no this faith not suitabe to me, i dont believe in that all together, i have my own believes or whatever .

So as muslims, that is what we believe, we dont disagree and says ‘’ohh yeah because this or that were sent by man or something ’’ because as i explained earlier we dont believe HE sobhanoh is a man.

We have our own rules, and we understand why ALLAH ordered it that way ‘ for those who ask and want to know’

But some of us as individuals apply them and some dont...but even in that case if you discuss with any muslim and said you know you should do this or that...he would say yes, and even if he didnt know, you would be able to open Quran karim and show it to him and he wont be able to say anything about it...except ..ok i know now but i wont apply ‘if he doesnt want to apply’ and in that case its something between him and ALLAH

And as for the system...well, its another story !

PS: Ý use the word ‘believe ‘ but what i mean about it its something deeper than believe as i said we call it Yakin or Akida..but i cant find the equivalent to it in English