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Minaret ban ´wins Swiss support´
(61 Messages in 7 pages - View all)
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10.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Dec 2009 Tue 05:23 am

Catwoman, in a previous post I made references to the xenophobic nature of European culture. I believe if this referandum was made in any other European country (maybe except for Britain) the result would be more or less the same.

 

You usually take matters like this: they made a mistake and you also made a mistake therefore you have no right to criticize others. This is not a constructive approach. We must pay utmost care to maintain the focus on the problem at hand.

 

The decision of the Swiss people though predictable is a bid for a blatant violation of basic human rights. It is despicable, unacceptable, seperatist and it is a huge backward step taken by ignorant and narrow minds. Let us protest this without mixing it with other subjects.



Edited (12/1/2009) by vineyards [typo]

11.       catwoman
8933 posts
 01 Dec 2009 Tue 08:57 am

I agree that this law banning denying the Armenian genocide is ridiculous, it kind of shows the hypocricy of Europe - that the freedom of speech rule only applies when it´s convenient.

Having said that, I think that Turkish policy of denial and restricting freedom of speech is what has ultimately led to this backlash.

12.       si++
3785 posts
 01 Dec 2009 Tue 09:12 am

 

Quoting armegon

 

 

 Subject is Switzerland´s law and you changed it to Turkish law 301 to defence these laws. We call it "kıvırtma" in Turkish. We also call it "oryantal". FYI then many countries have that similar ridiculous laws. It is not unique to Turkey. You can begin with checking Polish one for  example. Btw Turkish one has changed, there is no "Türklük" anymore since it is uncertain.

 

I like it. It´s nice to see Europe nations´ evolution. They rolled the ball so we should expect similar laws in other European countries. Last night I saw a Dutch party leader demanding the same kind of poll in Holland. We´ll see.

13.       si++
3785 posts
 01 Dec 2009 Tue 09:16 am

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

True, I don´t have any evidence, yet.. although it would be interesting to look into it. There IS a LAW in Turkey about insulting Turkishness, that is even more ridiculous, you must admit. And I´m pretty sure someone went to jail for denying "armenian genocide" under the Law 301.

 

Again could I ask for an evidence for it? I don´t know any. Please share it with us if you know any.

 

Maybe you refer to Orhan Pamuk case. They filed a case about it against Pamuk, which is a democratical right anyone can file anything. But no one went to jail.

14.       alex de souza
60 posts
 01 Dec 2009 Tue 10:46 am

Let’s admit that if there was such a referandum in Turkey, results would be like 80 % no, 20 % yes. So please do not try to exclude yourselves from the situation. I think the danger is that intolerance to others ( religions,races,ideologies, genders etc.) is rising intensely. Conservative  or nationalist parties accede even in the most modern countries which means in my opinion people are hating eachother more and more each day despite newest means of communication like internet that is supposed to make people know eachother better. 

 



Edited (12/1/2009) by alex de souza

15.       alameda
3499 posts
 01 Dec 2009 Tue 09:54 pm

Yes another diversionary post. The fact of the matter is the vote was taken in Switzerland......NOT Turkey............deal with the issue at hand, not some hypothetical "if"...........and I guess you have not taken note of all the churches already in Turkey?..........but that is another issue.......

 

Quoting alex de souza

Let’s admit that if there was such a referandum in Turkey, results would be like 80 % no, 20 % yes. So please do not try to exclude yourselves from the situation. I think the danger is that intolerance to others ( religions,races,ideologies, genders etc.) is rising intensely. Conservative  or nationalist parties accede even in the most modern countries which means in my opinion people are hating eachother more and more each day despite newest means of communication like internet that is supposed to make people know eachother better. 

 

 

 

16.       vineyards
1954 posts
 02 Dec 2009 Wed 03:43 pm

 

Quoting alameda

Yes another diversionary post. The fact of the matter is the vote was taken in Switzerland......NOT Turkey............deal with the issue at hand, not some hypothetical "if"...........and I guess you have not taken note of all the churches already in Turkey?..........but that is another issue.......

 

 

 

 

I agree with that. The most striking aspect of the country in the eyes of many foreign visitors after having seen Turkey for the first time how hospitable people generally are. Where I live, there are churches and synagogues kept in excellent condition regardless of how big their communities are.

 

Young people take photographs of these buildings, some light candles, some observe prayers although they don´t believe in this religion at all. This attitude can easily be generalized. There are also a few monsters here and there raised with the hatred of the world outside typical of the nationalist sentiment. Their attitude can hardly be generalized...

 

Nevertheless, in Athens majority thinks there is no room in the city even for a single mosque.

In Switzerland, they don´t want to see the minarets. They have no problem accepting petrodollars in their ´private´ bank accounts.

 

During the WWII they felt nothing wrong about robbing the Jewish of their property and money in association with the Nazis. There must indeed be a certain profound attitude towards foreigners. Prime Minister Erdogan refered to the result of the referandum as a new type of antisemitism.



Edited (12/2/2009) by vineyards

17.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 02 Dec 2009 Wed 06:35 pm

Not sure what people want to accomplish by banning minarets!  It´s obsurd and does nothing to ease relations between Western and Islamic culture.  I am finding more and more intolerance as the months and years go by.  We are supposed to be evolving as a spesis....we seem to be regressing rapidly.  I wonder what they will ban next...Church steeples, people wearing crosses, people with dark skin? 

18.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 02 Dec 2009 Wed 11:22 pm

I don´t see the point of the ban either. Why minarets? Are we dealing with architecsism? {#emotions_dlg.scared}

19.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 03 Dec 2009 Thu 12:05 am

 

Quoting vineyards

Catwoman, in a previous post I made references to the xenophobic nature of European culture. I believe if this referandum was made in any other European country (maybe except for Britain) the result would be more or less the same.

 

 

 Uhmmmm....no. Firstly, it´s not "European culture".... xenophobic reactions are human nature... evolution and all that, protect your own, spread the genes, all that. So to attach it to a single culture is unfounded... Secondly, there is no "European culture", it is a area with a lot of different histories and cultures that are sometimes intertwined, but really different. And thirdly, saying that in other European countries the result would be the same is just crazy. You underestimate people, and make you own assumptions based on nothing. The fact that the xenophobes scream the loudests makes it seem like they are the only people in certain countries, but that doesn´t mean they actually ARE the only people.

20.       catwoman
8933 posts
 03 Dec 2009 Thu 12:28 am

 

Quoting si++

 

Maybe you refer to Orhan Pamuk case. They filed a case about it against Pamuk, which is a democratical right anyone can file anything. But no one went to jail.

 

Orhan Pamuk did not go to jail only because of severe international pressure, many before him did. Do you really think that it´s so democratic that people get to be sued for saying "so many people died and you can´t talk about it in Turkey"?

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