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Norwegian newspaper publishes new Muhammad caricatures
(30 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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1.       foka
597 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 03:52 pm

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/1051277/2010/01/08/Noorse-krant-publiceert-opnieuw-Mohammed-karikaturen.dhtml

 

After the failed attack on the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten Friday´s controversial Mohammed caricatures and other drawings of the Prophet reprint. This newspaper wanted to show her readers what it really is, "said editor Hilde Haugsgjerd.
Last week, a suspected Islamist Somalia from the Danish cartoonist in his house attacked. The artist could until the arrival of the police in a room entrench.
 
Indignation
The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September 2005 had twelve caricatures of Muhammad published by various artists. That provoked the Muslim world in a wave of indignation, which degenerated into riots and demonstrations. In Islam, the image of the Prophet Muhammad prohibited.
 
Press freedom
The cartoons also led to a discussion on media and press freedom. "We have always defended the right to publish these drawings, and we also have copies printed when the debate erupted in 2005," said Haugsgjerd.

2.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 05:00 pm

I remembered this video cartoon... i didnt hear anybody killed anybody for this. And i think is very funny:

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Z7_X7Whq0

3.       vineyards
1954 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 06:01 pm

There is a saying in Turkish: "Now that you don´t know how to swim, why the hell did you climb on that tree."  It is surely an equivocal expression and it explains the situation Westergarrd is in.

 

Westergaard and his followers pioneer a defiant movement whose apparent purpose is to exercise freedom of expression by way of depicting Mohammad as a terrorist. They know that the defiant movement they started have already claimed lives. True they may not be held directly responsible for that but any sane person with a constructive attitude would at least accept that issueing those cartoons will not amount to anything other than pouring gas on the fire of ignorance.

 

One would also expect a man like him to be a bit bold now that he is waging a war against the backward half of the world. Now this guy has an armoured chamber in his house. That is quite normal. He feels threatened therefore he has every right to protect himself as much as he can.

His granddaughter happens to be with him in his house the day his house was attacked by an angry idiot. This guy leaves the granddaughter in the living room and he locks himself up in the armoured chamber alone. What a dauntless defender of freedom! At this point, we remember the Turkish saying in the first paragraph. It fits here quite nicely. It also explains a few other things. This guy must be aware of the anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe. He knows how public support is won. After all politicians are using the same method for winning elections.

 

I don´t have the ego to launch myself as the patron of freedoms but if a murderer breaks in my house, he cannot touch my granddaughter before he treads on my corpse and period...

 

Quoting foka

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/1051277/2010/01/08/Noorse-krant-publiceert-opnieuw-Mohammed-karikaturen.dhtml

 

After the failed attack on the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten Friday´s controversial Mohammed caricatures and other drawings of the Prophet reprint. This newspaper wanted to show her readers what it really is, "said editor Hilde Haugsgjerd.
Last week, a suspected Islamist Somalia from the Danish cartoonist in his house attacked. The artist could until the arrival of the police in a room entrench.
 
Indignation
The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September 2005 had twelve caricatures of Muhammad published by various artists. That provoked the Muslim world in a wave of indignation, which degenerated into riots and demonstrations. In Islam, the image of the Prophet Muhammad prohibited.
 
Press freedom
The cartoons also led to a discussion on media and press freedom. "We have always defended the right to publish these drawings, and we also have copies printed when the debate erupted in 2005," said Haugsgjerd.

 

 



Edited (1/8/2010) by vineyards

4.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 06:48 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

I remembered this video cartoon... i didnt hear anybody killed anybody for this. And i think is very funny:

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Z7_X7Whq0

 

...haven´t seen smth as stupid as this video for pretty long time... {#emotions_dlg.wtf}

5.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 07:00 pm

...he took the granddaughter with him in the chamber. That´s what he and other people said in an interview at least. The reaction that I liked after the original cartoon drama, was that of the anti-jewish cartoon contest:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C02%5C17%5Cstory_17-2-2006_pg4_8

And what is mostr striking, is that the whole BIG deal about the cartoons started a LONG time after they were published...

 

On another note...

 

 

WHAT? Making Jezus do YMCA? Who are these guys who did this? Let´s kill them!



Edited (1/8/2010) by barba_mama

6.       Trudy
7887 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 07:25 pm

 

Quoting yakamozzz

 

 

...haven´t seen smth as stupid as this video for pretty long time... {#emotions_dlg.wtf}

 

I agree. 

7.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 07:41 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

I agree.

 

 But begining part is good...isnt it ?

8.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 07:54 pm

I support free speech...but why, WHY....would somebody purposely inflame the muslim world?  Why do people INSIST that insulting someone is a freedom of expression.  On the other hand, this cartoon brought home the very point the cartoonist was trying to make - that there are some people who are so crazily blinded by religion that they would actually kill someone over a cartoon.  It seems to me that everyone has a lot of time on their hands to inflame, insult, get angry, plan an assassination...blah, blah...why not put ALL THIS ENERGY into making the world a better place, instead of the cespool of raw emotion that it has become?

9.       Trudy
7887 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 08:08 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I support free speech...but why, WHY....would somebody purposely inflame the muslim world?  Why do people INSIST that insulting someone is a freedom of expression.  On the other hand, this cartoon brought home the very point the cartoonist was trying to make - that there are some people who are so crazily blinded by religion that they would actually kill someone over a cartoon.  It seems to me that everyone has a lot of time on their hands to inflame, insult, get angry, plan an assassination...blah, blah...why not put ALL THIS ENERGY into making the world a better place, instead of the cespool of raw emotion that it has become?

 

+ 100000000!

10.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 10:23 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I support free speech...but why, WHY....would somebody purposely inflame the muslim world?  Why do people INSIST that insulting someone is a freedom of expression.  

 

But it is freedom of expression.. and I think it´s not the point to "purposely inflame the muslim world", but to mock what some people actually think are irrational beliefs.  I think that the problem is that religion gets a free ride on "respect", even though it often times proves that it doesn´t deserve respect. Any other ideology is criticized and bashed without any problems, religion is just another belief/philosophical system that should not be immune to criticism and mockery. It´s blinded people who think that there are some evil people out tehre whose only goal in life is to "provoke them" (which always makes me laugh when I hear this, it´s like these people admit that they have no control of their behavior.. {#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}).

11.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 10:43 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

But it is freedom of expression.. and I think it´s not the point to "purposely inflame the muslim world", but to mock what some people actually think are irrational beliefs.  I think that the problem is that religion gets a free ride on "respect", even though it often times proves that it doesn´t deserve respect. Any other ideology is criticized and bashed without any problems, religion is just another belief/philosophical system that should not be immune to criticism and mockery. It´s blinded people who think that there are some evil people out tehre whose only goal in life is to "provoke them" (which always makes me laugh when I hear this, it´s like these people admit that they have no control of their behavior.. {#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}).

 

Good response {#emotions_dlg.yes}

 

12.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 10:56 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I support free speech...but why, WHY....would somebody purposely inflame the muslim world?  Why do people INSIST that insulting someone is a freedom of expression.  On the other hand, this cartoon brought home the very point the cartoonist was trying to make - that there are some people who are so crazily blinded by religion that they would actually kill someone over a cartoon.  It seems to me that everyone has a lot of time on their hands to inflame, insult, get angry, plan an assassination...blah, blah...why not put ALL THIS ENERGY into making the world a better place, instead of the cespool of raw emotion that it has become?

 

Well said Elisabeth......{#emotions_dlg.flowers} 

Why....maybe to boost their sense of importance....maybe because they want attention?  Maybe they are stupid and insensitive?

13.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 10:58 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I support free speech...but why, WHY....would somebody purposely inflame the muslim world?  Why do people INSIST that insulting someone is a freedom of expression.  

 

But it is freedom of expression.. and I think it´s not the point to "purposely inflame the muslim world", but to mock what some people actually think are irrational beliefs.  I think that the problem is that religion gets a free ride on "respect", even though it often times proves that it doesn´t deserve respect. Any other ideology is criticized and bashed without any problems, religion is just another belief/philosophical system that should not be immune to criticism and mockery. It´s blinded people who think that there are some evil people out tehre whose only goal in life is to "provoke them" (which always makes me laugh when I hear this, it´s like these people admit that they have no control of their behavior.. {#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}).

 

The point to my post was not to defend one side or the other but to simply point out that if people put as much energy into doing good as they did in pointing out who is right and who is wrong, insulting eachother or provoking people ect....I think the world might be a better place.  Everyone deserves respect....not just religious people or athiest or agnostics.  Just having a hard time understanding why people can´t just be nice to eachother.  I know that depicting Mohammed would insult muslim people, so I would never dream of doing it....Do I have a right to?  Sure, but it is more important to me to protect the feelings of fellow humans that to exercise my right to free speech. 



Edited (1/8/2010) by Elisabeth

14.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 11:07 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

 

The point to my post was not to defend one side or the other but to simply point out that if people put as much energy into doing good as they did in pointing out who is right and who is wrong, insulting eachother or provoking people ect....I think the world might be a better place.  Everyone deserves respect....not just religious people or athiest or agnostics.  Just having a hard time understanding why people can´t just be nice to eachother.  I know that depicting Mohammed would insult muslim people, so I would never dream of doing it....Do I have a right to?  Sure, but it is more important to me to protect the feelings of fellow humans that to exercise my right to free speech. 

 

Bravo Elisabeth....very well put.  {#emotions_dlg.flowers}

15.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 01:28 am

I think there is not a single poster in this thread I don´t agree with

 

On the one hand, I am against playing the religion card just to cause riots, on the other, I believe religions should be subject to criticism just like any other moral or ethical codes.

 

The question here is whether the Dannish cartoons were posted to insult or to point out what Catwoman wrote - that there are people who abuse religion in order to justify bloodshed. I think it was the latter and the reaction that followed was way out of proportion. 

 

Just like BM posted, there are hundreds if not thousands of cartoons or photos making fun of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and cults. Why should Islam be the only one punishing it by death?

16.       oeince
582 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 02:05 am

If a civilisation owes its development to decreasing extra ordinary power the church, having fun with religious institutions and figures would be sth. casual for the new generations of this civilisation.

 

However, in order there is not that kind of an event in Islam history, religious figures and its organisations are still very important to Muslim people. That is why any Muslims don´t be unrespectful to Jesus also.

 

Mutual respect begins with not to insult the values of the other one even if its not sth. not valuable for you. That is why, Non Islamic people shall stop insulting Hz. Muhammed. Otherwise World´s public opinion will believe that these caricatures are published to provake Muslims.

 

 



Edited (1/9/2010) by oeince [missing word]

17.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 03:33 am

 

Quoting alameda

 

Why....maybe to boost their sense of importance....maybe because they want attention?  Maybe they are stupid and insensitive?

 

Hahah, are you trying to provoke some people, Alameda? I hope you are aware of how insensitive your judgmental words are!! Are you doing this to get attention? lol

18.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 03:38 am

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

The point to my post was not to defend one side or the other but to simply point out that if people put as much energy into doing good as they did in pointing out who is right and who is wrong, insulting eachother or provoking people ect....I think the world might be a better place.  Everyone deserves respect....not just religious people or athiest or agnostics.  Just having a hard time understanding why people can´t just be nice to eachother.  I know that depicting Mohammed would insult muslim people, so I would never dream of doing it....Do I have a right to?  Sure, but it is more important to me to protect the feelings of fellow humans that to exercise my right to free speech. 

 

But it is not people that are mocked.. it´s the religion.. I know that some/most religious people equal themselves with their beliefs.. but let´s face it, if their religions weren´t causing as much harm as they do, nobody would care to mock it (or put as much energy into it). But these religions do harm some other people.. so people must care to say something to it (and it´s actually a pretty brave thing to mock some of these beliefs that shall not be named!!).



Edited (1/9/2010) by catwoman

19.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 04:10 am

 

Quoting oeince

If a civilisation owes its development to decreasing extra ordinary power the church, having fun with religious institutions and figures would be sth. casual for the new generations of this civilisation.

 

The only reason why the Church does not have as much power as it had in the past, and that people do not brainlessly go and kill others in the name of the Church any more, is that the taboo of criticizing Christianity has been lifted to a large degree, and people have been allowed to think for themselves. If that hadn´t happened, people (women) still would be burnt for witchcraft today.

Islam has to undergo a similar process, otherwise women will be legally stoned/flocked/circumsized/"married off" at ages of 12/"infidels" will be vowed death/tribalism will persist... and basically many peole will keep doing bad things without applying their inborn human morality/intelligence that would otherwise tell them to stop.



Edited (1/9/2010) by catwoman
Edited (1/9/2010) by catwoman

20.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 04:14 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I think there is not a single poster in this thread I don´t agree with

 

On the one hand, I am against playing the religion card just to cause riots, on the other, I believe religions should be subject to criticism just like any other moral or ethical codes.

 

The question here is whether the Dannish cartoons were posted to insult or to point out what Catwoman wrote - that there are people who abuse religion in order to justify bloodshed. I think it was the latter and the reaction that followed was way out of proportion. 

 

Just like BM posted, there are hundreds if not thousands of cartoons or photos making fun of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and cults. Why should Islam be the only one punishing it by death?

 

Canim, you don´t realize that you basically have only agreed with me, not with "all posters" here!! hahaha

21.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 12:35 pm

 

Quoting oeince

 

However, in order there is not that kind of an event in Islam history, religious figures and its organisations are still very important to Muslim people. That is why any Muslims don´t be unrespectful to Jesus also.

 

Mutual respect begins with not to insult the values of the other one even if its not sth. not valuable for you. That is why, Non Islamic people shall stop insulting Hz. Muhammed. Otherwise World´s public opinion will believe that these caricatures are published to provake Muslims.

 

 

 

I don´t agree with this. Muslims don´t insult Jesus because Jesus is also a Muslim prophet. Insulting him would be the same as insulting Mohammed. But somehow people tend to forget that Islam has more then one prophet.

 

The issue of the cartoons is not about respect for Islam, but about disrespect for the people who abuse a religion for violence.

 

And in the end, everybody has the right for his or her opinion about a prophet. Because a lot has been written about Mohammed´s life, it is easier to form an opinion about him then about other prophets. And some things that have, by word of mouth mostly, happened in his life are things that other people don´t agree with. Some of the cartoons were about this too, but the cartoons that got the most heavy responses were actually about abusive so-called muslims.

 

22.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 02:08 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

Canim, you don´t realize that you basically have only agreed with me, not with "all posters" here!! hahaha

 

awww well..not only with you I agreed with Lis´s point that people should focus on doing good things instead of insulting other people´s religions, I said I didn´t like playing the religion card. And I also agree with BM that Muslims react as if Mohammet was the only prophet criticised. And now I agree with BM even more. What´s happening to me? Am I going to be this year´s TC´s nod person? {#emotions_dlg.eeek}

23.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 06:55 pm

I just can´t think of one good thing that came out of this gentleman publishing this cartoon.  He proved that there are religious zealots out there.  We didn´t know that already?  

 

Why would somebody who has a talent waste it on such rubbish?  These cartoons caused riots and scores of people to get hurt.  I am just asking, what good came out of this?  We, as Westerners have so much freedom, we are so lucky and fortunate to be able to express ourselves.  Why do we waste it on upsetting people, pornography, and other hateful acts?  Why do we use our freedom as an excuse to do and say whatever we want?  Perhaps we are NO BETTER than those who use religion to do and say whatever they want?  

24.       catwoman
8933 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 10:36 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

I just can´t think of one good thing that came out of this gentleman publishing this cartoon.  He proved that there are religious zealots out there.  We didn´t know that already?  

 

Why would somebody who has a talent waste it on such rubbish?  These cartoons caused riots and scores of people to get hurt.  I am just asking, what good came out of this?  We, as Westerners have so much freedom, we are so lucky and fortunate to be able to express ourselves.  Why do we waste it on upsetting people, pornography, and other hateful acts?  Why do we use our freedom as an excuse to do and say whatever we want?  Perhaps we are NO BETTER than those who use religion to do and say whatever they want?  

 

Well, it also showed VERY clearly that religion is not necessarily that peace-loving, force for good in the world, but it can also be a murderous ideology! That surely should make people rethink how much automatic respect religion should get.. (not much really!!) And it should also change people´s minds about whether religions should be criticized and questioned... or just let them be what they are. 

You are right that mockery might be a particularly painful form of criticism to hear, that not everyone might want to engage in, but people should still not have to fear for their lives for doing it in a free society.

25.       oeince
582 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 11:32 pm

We agree about the need of the change. And I think that change shall be on human behaviours and minds. Muslims, Christians, Jewishes, Budists, Atheists etc. almost all people in the world losed humanitarian values a lot nowadays. That situation has rooted reasons which are subject to another main topic; Why human lost his/her values?

 

In my opinion religions are the last Castles of humanitarian values. So the world needs to understand the soul of religions rather than trying to reform it.

 

I can not think that a real religious person insults anyone else becouse he/she knows that the world is a temporary station on the way to eternity. Neither extreme rightest attacks in Europe nor cutted heads in Afghanistan are becouse Christianity or Islam. All these are becouse value losing human.

 

BTW Frea, we are on the same idea about Jesus. What i ment in my previous post was totally the same with ur point of view. Jesus is a prophet of Islam also. So none of the Muslim people do not insult him.

 

If only Norwegian newspaper´s executives would focus on "how to increase humanitarian values" rather than provaking Muslims by insulting their holy figures.

 

That would be more effectful approach to fix socil problems of Europe like, ethnocentrism, exploitation, dishonesty and etc.

26.       lemon
1374 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 12:28 am

 

Quoting barba_mama

 

 

I don´t agree with this. Muslims don´t insult Jesus because Jesus is also a Muslim prophet. Insulting him would be the same as insulting Mohammed. But somehow people tend to forget that Islam has more then one prophet.

 

The issue of the cartoons is not about respect for Islam, but about disrespect for the people who abuse a religion for violence.

 

And in the end, everybody has the right for his or her opinion about a prophet. Because a lot has been written about Mohammed´s life, it is easier to form an opinion about him then about other prophets. And some things that have, by word of mouth mostly, happened in his life are things that other people don´t agree with. Some of the cartoons were about this too, but the cartoons that got the most heavy responses were actually about abusive so-called muslims.

 

 

liked it. very logic.

27.       catwoman
8933 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 12:53 am

 

Quoting oeince

We agree about the need of the change. And I think that change shall be on human behaviours and minds. Muslims, Christians, Jewishes, Budists, Atheists etc. almost all people in the world losed humanitarian values a lot nowadays. That situation has rooted reasons which are subject to another main topic; Why human lost his/her values?

 

That is absolutely true, there is no rule that a Muslim is better or worse then a Christian or an atheist, there are good and bad people from all walks of life. But.. we do want and have to criticize their beliefs/ideas.. if we think they contribute to bad things happening. If you don´t criticize first.. nothing will ever change.. my two pennies!

28.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 03:12 am

I have to agree with Catwoman again. the fact that all religions have flaws (or as some may want to put it, people have flaws and are thus incapable of trully understand and/or follow religious teachings) makes it an argument supporting criticism, which satire definitely is.

 

If there´s something in the world you don´t like, why shouldn´t you be free to say it openly? If some people think their religion justifies terrorism, they can´t be surprised at being criticised. If a Prime Minister of a European country wants to sunbathe naked in the company of naked women, the respect for his wife cannot be a reason of not turning this incident into a satirical cartoon.

 

Everything and everyone in this planet and beyond it is prone to criticism. People can do terrible things if they don´t fear the public opinion, let´s take the latest news about child abuse in the Catholic Church. If it was ok to criticise Church before, they would not feel so unpunishable

29.       catwoman
8933 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 04:50 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I have to agree with Catwoman again. the fact that all religions have flaws (or as some may want to put it, people have flaws and are thus incapable of trully understand and/or follow religious teachings) makes it an argument supporting criticism, which satire definitely is.

 

If there´s something in the world you don´t like, why shouldn´t you be free to say it openly? If some people think their religion justifies terrorism, they can´t be surprised at being criticised. If a Prime Minister of a European country wants to sunbathe naked in the company of naked women, the respect for his wife cannot be a reason of not turning this incident into a satirical cartoon.

 

Everything and everyone in this planet and beyond it is prone to criticism. People can do terrible things if they don´t fear the public opinion, let´s take the latest news about child abuse in the Catholic Church. If it was ok to criticise Church before, they would not feel so unpunishable

 

Oh canim, and of course I agree with you too!!

30.       Trudy
7887 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 11:59 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

Everything and everyone in this planet and beyond it is prone to criticism. People can do terrible things if they don´t fear the public opinion, let´s take the latest news about child abuse in the Catholic Church. If it was ok to criticise Church before, they would not feel so unpunishable

 

So true!

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