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The Bible in the context sexuality
(49 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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30.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 11:22 am

 

Quoting armegon

{#emotions_dlg.lol} I know the parable dear, but in parable God orders, right? I just tried to help you to understand but it seems i failed...  

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

Actually it´s not an order per se. It´s a parable about one ancient guy not having come  inside his brother´s wife and being punished for that. If that´s the way army officials give orders then I´m surprised army has that much power in Turkey lol

 

 

Its not a parable, its a true story. Do not repeat after DD.

31.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 12:53 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

Your interpretation is not yours it is Catholic.

 

As you, yourself dont read Bible it doesnt mean that it is invalid.

 

Customs, traditions, cultures, religions change but God and His Words never.

 

And, yes, God hates homosexualism, prostitution and our modern day immoral culture.

 

Maybe it is Catholic lol I wouldn´t know really as I don´t remember talking about Onan in religion classes. And I have never read the Bible either, just fragments during literature classes in secondary school lol

 

But reading this fragment you quoted,

 

" 8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother´s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother´s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD´s sight; so he put him to death also."

 

it´s really hard to understand it differently than how i read it. Still, I´m not trying to convince you. If you find something that is not there - enjoy your interpretation I know I lack the finger of God (even the middle one lol) so maybe reading the same paragraph we get two different messages. Your seems illogical to me, but that´s just my opinion. You are entitled to believe I shall burn in hell. Suits me just fine {#emotions_dlg.super_cool}

32.       gezegen
269 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 12:58 pm

Okay, in the light of Onan story, sex is supposed to end up with male ejaculaton into the female. But what about when no sexual intercourse and/or ejaculation is involved in sex- like in the cases of only caressing, kissing, etc.?  And then there is foreplay! {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} Are these considered as sinns between non-married partners?



Edited (6/14/2010) by gezegen [foreplay!]

33.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 03:24 pm

 

Quoting gezegen

Okay, in the light of Onan story, sex is supposed to end up with male ejaculaton into the female. But what about when no sexual intercourse and/or ejaculation is involved in sex- like in the cases of only caressing, kissing, etc.?  And then there is foreplay! {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} Are these considered as sinns between non-married partners?

 

The Onan´s story actually is not about sex. God is not telling Onan how to have sex. Nowhere in the Bible you will find instructions how to have sex. Onan´s story is a disobiedience to God. People read and see sex. I read and see disobidience.

God has killed many men and women in many other situations for the disobiedience, and the death was immideate.

The Law was to continue your brother´s line.

If you actually read the whole story (instead of being such a big ignorant) the story ends up with her having babies from her father in law Judah. And the story ends there. The woman wanted a child and she achieved it.

34.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 03:33 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

Maybe it is Catholic lol I wouldn´t know really as I don´t remember talking about Onan in religion classes. And I have never read the Bible either, just fragments during literature classes in secondary school lol

 

But reading this fragment you quoted,

 

" 8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother´s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother´s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD´s sight; so he put him to death also."

 

it´s really hard to understand it differently than how i read it. Still, I´m not trying to convince you. If you find something that is not there - enjoy your interpretation I know I lack the finger of God (even the middle one lol) so maybe reading the same paragraph we get two different messages. Your seems illogical to me, but that´s just my opinion. You are entitled to believe I shall burn in hell. Suits me just fine {#emotions_dlg.super_cool}

 

DD, you have no a valid point here. You brought that interpretation from a catholic website. I know you are not a Catholic, but when you speak of Bible you speak from the Catholic perspective, because thats all you ve known growing up.A biblical christianity is alien to you.

 

Yesterday I gave you a passage from Corinthians. I am sure you didnt read it.

You keep saying that Bible or God of Bible is against the sex if not for procreation. You cant prove it. Theres no such statement in the Bible. And I think you know that you are not truthful in your statement. You said you dont read Bible, and all you know is the bits and pieces from cathechism. And this altogether proves you wrong.

 

As for Onan, read what I wrote to Gezegen.

 

3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife´s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband´s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command.

 

35.       gezegen
269 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 03:39 pm

Ok, lemon, here is a very straightforward question to the point:

 

If I have sex with a woman resulting in no pregnancy, will I be punished by God in the next life?

36.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 03:44 pm

 

Quoting gezegen

Ok, lemon, here is a very straightforward question to the point:

 

If I have sex with a woman resulting in no pregnancy, will I be punished by God in the next life?

 

A good question.

 

If that woman is your wife, you have sex, any sex, many sex, mutually agreed and mutually respected.

Theres no restriction to sex within the marriage.

37.       gezegen
269 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 03:48 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

A good question.

 

If that woman is your wife, you have sex, any sex, many sex, mutually agreed and mutually respected.

Theres no restriction to sex within the marriage.

 

So, in all other cases like no marriage in question, every kind of sex, including foreplay, is forbidden and considered as sinn, right?

38.       lemon
1374 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 03:57 pm

 

Quoting gezegen

 

 

So, in all other cases like no marriage in question, every kind of sex, including foreplay, is forbidden and considered as sinn, right?

 

If this is out of marriage, not only foreplay but a thought of it is a sin.

E.g. if you looked at a woman (out of your marriage) with a lust you have just committed a sin. Your place is in Hell. Sin is not an action only. Any action starts off and cooked in your mind. If you are in a cafe (your action - you went there), you went there because you thought to go there, you planned it. Your actions follow your thoughts. If you called someone a fool in your thoughts you have already sinned against God.

 

Welcome to Christianity!  {#emotions_dlg.ty_ty}

39.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 04:05 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

DD, you have no a valid point here. You brought that interpretation from a catholic website. I know you are not a Catholic, but when you speak of Bible you speak from the Catholic perspective, because thats all you ve known growing up.A biblical christianity is alien to you.

 

Yesterday I gave you a passage from Corinthians. I am sure you didnt read it.

You keep saying that Bible or God of Bible is against the sex if not for procreation. You cant prove it. Theres no such statement in the Bible. And I think you know that you are not truthful in your statement. You said you dont read Bible, and all you know is the bits and pieces from cathechism. And this altogether proves you wrong.

 

As for Onan, read what I wrote to Gezegen.

 

3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife´s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband´s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command.

 

Ok, you got me lost here. You´re saying

 

"The Law was to continue your brother´s line."

 

and I understand it as "inseminate your brother´s wife" not as "do what a husband should, just have sex and maybe something will come out of it" - you don´t but that´s probably because you have the Grace of God and are able to read between the lines

 

I can´t say I´m not influenced by Catholic interpretations as they were the only ones I heard. Still, reading this passage today and being strongly against Catholicism as a religion, I did my best to try and find a different interpretation that would prove these nasty, backward idea wrong. But I can´t agree to something illogical, that´s not me.

 

You´re saying I can´t prove God being against contraception (although this is how I see the onan story), well neither can you prove otherwise. And we´ve come to a standstill

 

So far all the fragments you quoted have not convinced me to change the interpretation of Onan´s story. If there are any other that state "be free to use contraception, God will not kill you" please provide them to me, I´ll gladly read them Oh, you can´t? Well, that´s what I thought

 

40.       gezegen
269 posts
 14 Jun 2010 Mon 04:06 pm

 

Quoting lemon

Welcome to Christianity!  {#emotions_dlg.ty_ty}

 

Smile I am not yet sure if I am comfortable here in Christianity. I mean I would go even just for foreplay and this would be enough as a fore-step! {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} But it is hard sometimes not to desires a woman in mind! Well, we will see... {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile}

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