I had a discussion about this with some women at my office the other day. We were talking about relationships, women and their careers, the dynamics between men and women, and what makes a man a "real" man.

There was one dilemma. To make it far in the business/scientific world, you have to work long hours. There seems to be a trade-off between work and relatioship. So, let´s say you are in a relationship, you have a job and your partner has a job. The choice is this. You work untill 10 ´o clock, but your partner is home at 5 ´o clock. Or, your partner works untill 10 ´o clock, and you are home at 5. Ofcourse, the ideal situation would be, both home at 7 but this is not an option in this case. Which option do you choose?

If my partner and I won´t be able to find a chance (common free time) to make love, whether she is or I am home at 5 could make no difference, hence I choose none!

I wouldn´t mind any of these two options. You can get used to many things in a relationship. And finishing work at the sam etime does not grant a successful relationship anyway. I´d imagine, though, it would be hard to have a child if one of the partners spent that much time working. I know there are nannies but...what´s the point of having a child if you cannot raise it?

I kow either option is not optimal, but the point is that you must choose one. There were mixed results in the group I discussed this with. By the way, this is not a case with children. It´s just you and your partner. My Moldovan friend said, with strong feelings, that she wanted to be the one home at 5. My Dutch friend said the same, although she had to think a bit longer.. My two Chinese friends said (without having to think about it very long) they wanted to be the ones working until 10. I agreed with my Chinese friends. I was just wondering what people from other countries think of it, and what the men think.

I think the male partner should work until 10 in order to prevent his female partner putting forward excuses (not to make love) like ´Grrr! I am so tired of working until 10, so have no mood for it, besides I have a headache! Can´t we just sleep? It is late...´!

Or, you can have a situation like mine.  My husband and I work in the same place.  We drive in together, we drive home together.  Although we do not share the same office, we eat lunch together and have the same friends.  My best friend and her husband also work in the same organization that my husband and I do...hence, all of the people I like the most, I get to spend most of my time with.  

When possible, I think it is important to have the same career goals and to understand eachothers ambitions.  I have always been a very career driven person and so is my husband.  Because he works in the same place and understands what is going on in my organization, he is much more sympathetic and vice versa. 

OMG...

Dont do that!! You will get bored with each other so quickly.

Give each other some space for goodness sake!!

Is it so hard for you to believe we may actually like it this way?  Some couples actually LIKE to be together.  I know this concept is strange for you, H...but please try to understand...I actually LIKE my husband!

But now let´s say you HAVE to make a choice. No ideal situations. Would you be the one home at 5, while your husband is home at 10? Or would you be the one home at 10, while your husband is home at 5?

Well, if I have to make a choice, I will be home at 5.  But it makes absolutely no difference what so ever.  We have a 13 year old and a 14 month old.  We both work until 10pm every night anyway! My guess is we will both be in bed by 11pm as usual!

The key word here is sex!

Your keyword is always sex, not only here.

Nope! My keyword is sorrow!

well, I´d want to come home early! whatever my partner chooses for himself is his decision.. hopefully we could work out a happy relationship despite the time restriction.

DD - I wish that it was so easy as to decide that you want to be home and raise your children by yourself.. some people cannot afford that, but they still want to have kids.

I know, Kitty. A lot of people have to make tough choices. I just think people who choose career over children miss a lot. But then, choosing children over career makes you miss a lot as well. I suppose there´s no universal way that works for everybody in the end.

You are right of course. And of course I see your point about parents needing to be ready to put some time and effort into raising their children when they decide to have them. One can see the consequences of irresponsible parenting... However, in the US 50% of pregnancies are unplanned..

Wow...shocking that 50% are unplanned especially since birth control is so readily available.  My pregnancies were like finely tuned instruments right down to the scheduled inductions!  Maybe this is a funny point, but if both parents are working, there must be some commitment to scheduling and making "plans" for family time, alone time and so forth.  This is the only way it works for my family. 

what was said...."the best laid plans of mice and men"........one still needs luck....some try and try and nothing...others bingo! ready or not

Lucky you, Lis, that your biology listened to you Schedued inductions? Wow. Here they don´t induce you unless there´s a threat to the baby´s or mother´s health, or you´re 2 weeks overdue. I was induced as well due to severe pre-eclampsia but the induction failed and it ended up with a section.

It´s great to be able to plan everything, and it´s not so bad if you can make the best of the situation you get yourself in. The 50% of unplanned pregnancies Kitty talked about are shocking, especialy in 21st century with all the knowledge and access to contraception. I wonder how many of these unplanned pregnancies have a happy ending...

Whether your pregnancies are planned or a surprise (although, if you are having sex, I don´t see how it can be a "total´ shock), I think that setting time aside for your partner is vital to having a harmonious relationship.  I don´t know how many people I know who put all thier energy and time into the kids and let their relationship fall apart.  It is so easy to loose site of the relationship that created the kids in the first place. 

Pure words of wisdom!!! Babies can totally ruin a relationship, they are small but powerful.

I have never seen babies ruining the relationships..Sometime, they MEND the relationships but they never ruin them..

you haven´t lived long enough then!

I have seen a baby´s problems ruin a relationship. It wasn´t the actual baby, but difference in how to deal with the baby´s issues. And I have seen MANY people who thought a baby could mend a relationship, which ofcourse it couldn´t. If your relationship is bad, bringing a baby into it isn´t magically going to fix it. After a month all the old problems pop up.

Just like Elisabeth said, the baby often takes up ALL your time and people stop spending any time together where they focus on each other, and not always on the baby. That can easily make them distant and eventually drift apart.. on top of that babies bring new dilemmas for the parents, which may make the existing relationship problems worse.

I have no idea how babies ´fix´ relationships.. maybe you could elaborate more on that, thehandsom?

I have no intention to argue with "baby haters"

good, you derschowitz!!

I love babies. I just hate stupid parents I get irritated by people in bad relationships, who bring an innocent child in it. They become frustrated, angry, screaming parents. When I see a parents scream at their child in public or even worse, hit it, I just want to smack the parent across the head with my slipper. Some people should REALLY not have babies...

They don´t have indeed, they have pets!