My heart goes out to the famlies of the soldiers that lost their lifes today in Istanbul

Damn

We are sliding into the war again.. It got to be stopped now....

NOW!!

Here is a link to an article about the bombing:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=four-soldiers-teen-killed-in-a-bomb-attack-in-istanbul-2010-06-22

17 year old daughter of an officer and 3 sergeants are dead. Edit: one more officer is dead. Now it´s 5 people killed by this terrorist attack.

The blast wounded nearly a dozen people and two were in a serious condition, Istanbul´s Provincial Governor Hüseyin Avni Mutlu said.

"This is a terrorist attack, and the aim of the attack is clear -- to create divisions, tensions and despair," Mutlu told reporters. Mutlu said two of the wounded were in critical condition following the early morning attack.

Quoted from: here

That´s tragic I´m sorry for the people who lost their friends and family members and those who lost peace of mind

May their souls rest in peace

Another victim of this terrorist attack, sergeant Mehmet Çağlar Bölük was the husband of Elif İmenç Bölük who had played in the advertisment movies for a campaign launched for convincing the Kurdish families in the east of Turky who do not send their girls to school.

Quoted from: here

Little Sude farewells her elder sister like a soldier.

  3 of 19 suspects of Halkalı bombing have been jailed. Among them is M. Kazım Seven who is believed to prepare the bomb by putting nails in the conic apparatus he prepeared and by adding explosives provided by his assistant Seyithan Özer in it, thereby making it more effective. One of the nails had hit Buse in her heart causing her death.

Seven is called "hoca" (a religious figure) by others. He practiced his prayer regularly when he was in custody, it was reported.

Quoted from: here

Quoting si++

  3 of 19 suspects of Halkalı bombing have been jailed. Among them is M. Kazım Seven who is believed to prepare the bomb by putting nails in the conic apparatus he prepeared and by adding explosives provided by his assistant Seyithan Özer in it, thereby making it more effective. One of the nails had hit Buse in her heart causing her death.

Seven is called "hoca" (a religious figure) by others. He practiced his prayer regularly when he was in custody, it was reported.

 

Quoted from: here

Police camera recorded "hoca" when preparing his conic apparatus. He was jailed subsequently but not before the bomb apparatus were taken by the bomber terrorists. They were questioned before the terrorist bombing took place but he and his assisstant were dead silent about to whom they had given the bomb. When they were shown the recorded video they tried to gain time with various explainations and in the morning the attack took place killing 5 one of them was 17 year old Buse.

Quoted from: here

After a bloody month in which we saw more death than last 12 months, I guess, a new ceasefire might be on its way.  A few days ago, Apo send some messages such as ´mutual ceasefire; the solution is in the parliament etc´ via his lawyers after many NGOs expressed their desire not to go back to war..

We are all hopeful..

Erkan Akdeniz, 21, a soldier of Kurdish origin from Iğdır, who was killed by PKK terrorist during an attack over the gendarme station in Şemdinli has reportedly been the second one in his family to share the same destiny after his elder brother who was also killed by PKK terrorists in 1998.

Quoted from: here

Quoting si++

Erkan Akdeniz, 21, a soldier of Kurdish origin from Iğdır, who was killed by PKK terrorist during an attack over the gendarme station in Şemdinli has reportedly been the second one in his family to share the same destiny after his elder brother who was also killed by PKK terrorists in 1998.

Quoted from: here

Such a shame we could not stop this war..

And it is still  going on!!

If, in country, the head of the army tells the politicians that ´they should go to mountains´; if the head of the army is ABLE TO TELL those words in a country, in a half way decent; in a half way democratic country, we expect more shame!!

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalHaberDetay&ArticleID=1006669&Date=07.07.2010&CategoryID=98  (Turkish)

I´m a bit confused... who told who to "go to the mountains"?

Sorry.. It is not clear enough..

The head of the army, Gn Basbug said those words for BDP MPs. 

in Turkish "Ya ayrıl milletvekilliğinden dağa mı gidiyorsun nereye gideceksen git veya Anayasa’ya verdiğin yeminin gereğini yerine getir”

It can be translated as  ´either you leave from the parliament and go to mountains or where ever or do what the constitution tells you to do´..

Hm, well I can understand that comment. Sitting in parlement and laying out plans for attacks or whatever is very different than actually being the soldier that has to go there. If he ment something like, the people in parlement don´t know how the reality is, than I agree with him.

Then, you completely missed the gist of it..

Head of General Staff said something about what that guy in parlement said. Handy should have quoted it as well for us to better understand it.

I agree with you.

I said if if my interpretation is wrong, explain it to me. I´m not a Turkish speaker, the article was very hard for me to understand.

Well you dont need to be a Turkish speaker to understand the peculiarity of the situation from democratic principles´ point of view:

The head of the army  is telling some members  of parliment that they should go to mountains.

Do you hear any of  your generals talking in the same manner to the people you selected and sent to your parliment?

That is why our democratic values are being questioned by our own citizens, that is why we have a rebellion, that is why people are dying.

He´s referring to what that guy said. I would expect you to talk about it also. What did he say? Help us get a better picture of it.

Yes, a Dutch general told our parlement to go to Afghanistan, and he told them to listen to the Dutch soldiers there. (The parlement was fighting if the Dutch should leave Afghanistan or not, while the soldiers there wanted to stay. They thought there work was not done, and if they would leave the weak peace they had created in that region would break down) It´s democracy in its purest form, because democracy can only work if there is freedom of speech. The parlement is not the king. I think that what your general said is actually very democratic. So, I DID get the point of what the general said and I still stad by what I said before. Parlement only works when it deals with reality, and doesn´t make decisions from an ivory tower.

I think we have a different understanding about what democracy is and what the difference is between a general saying to the parliament ´go and listen to our soldiers in Afghanistan´ and a head of the army telling the members of parliament ´you either go to mountains or obey the constitution´.

They both are quite different.. If those words were uttered in your country, your PM would fire him at the spot.. Obama firing the general who was in charge of USA army in Afghanistan was a small example (even though the general was just a foul mouthed person. It was not interfering with the politics)

Apart from what they said are different, Turkish army is the army staged 3 named several unnamed coups in last 50 years. Our army thinks that  they are the protectors of what we have in Turkey. I am not  going to mention again how many people who got killed; how many who got tortured; how many was made vanish simply..neither I am  going to mention either their continuing  plans of overthrowing the elected governments and creating chaos deliberately by killing our own citizens etc

So, in a nut shell, what our general said is not the purest form of democracy it is quite the opposite..

you go to the mountains or obey the constitution? I´m completely lost in this because I don´t kow what part of the constitution they are referring to. I never really understood the very difficult relationship between government and army in Turkey. It seems a constant struggle for power, and I´m unsure about who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. Is this also related to the referendum that is planned for September?

This is much more than that..

This is like awakening from a dream of an 85 years of deep sleep.. 

These are clashing values.. On the one hand 85 years of statuesque with ´the state is everything and its people obey the rules to keep the state as it is´ versus ´state is there for its people´    

thehandsom are you in exile in the UK?  

none of your business..

Why? Because you are depicting a junta regime in your posts.

Take your clocks 85 years back in time, this would take you to the birth of the new Turkish republic built on the ashes of the Ottoman Empire in the wake of a war of independence that claimed the lives of millions of people on countless front in all directions. This country fought against everyone from Indians to Aussies, from the French to the English. Kemal Ataturk established the new republic within what he called the national territory. His regime was Jacobian in essence but that seemed to be the only way to put into effect the radical changes in his mind. He used his government to introduce democracy, freedom and equality to a society which had long been denied of them amid clashes and quarrels.

Ataturk died in 1939. Hitler, Franco,Mussolini came one generation later. The world witnessed cruelties performed by those "new" leaders. Decades later, the leaders of the democratic world washed Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq in human blood.  

Don´t try to teach me any lessons, I was not raised in a palace. When there were lines I waited on those lines, when there were interruptions in democracy I was there as one of the sufferers. I watched social democrats ruin the country by breaking chairs on each others´ head. 

At the end of the day, I love this country as much as anyone else does his own country.  

BDP is an extension of the PKK. One of the BDP deputy had threaten Turky saying "We will turn every place in Turky into a hell" (we see examples of it in this thread) and uttered that they would make Turky kneel before them. They attend funerals of killed terrorists and cry for revenge using pancarts. Head of General Staff was referring to this type of things.

Well

BDP is the party KURDS vote for..

You may not like it but it is the reality..

That is what THEY WANT AND YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THEM. (I dont mean you have to respect their Kurdish racism btw)

Apart from that, I hope you are against the racist Turks as well. The one who insist as Kurds are primitive.. 

Check the slogans  and pan carts of the people  who belong to the biggest racist party of Europe.. I have not seen you saying anything against them? They are normal.. are they?

The Head of the army should go and do his work and leave the politics alone like half way decent y democratic country Turkish people deserve..

Typical hanso who keeps repating himself.

Take into account that some of those votes were given under PKK threat. Should they voted for some other party probably they would be killed by those terrorrist.

Still believing this ´under PKK threat´ palavra?

So you opted to ignore  Turkish racism completely.. 

We dont have Turkish racism.. do we?

You cannot post something without racism/racist in it?

Well as long as you are UNABLE TO say anything against Turkish racism but writing novels about racism of others, that will be the case I am afraid.

So no words from you about Turkish racism? can we take your silence as you are approving them?

BDP is a Kurdish fascist party that using democracy and human rights as a cover and as si++ mentioned it is right that they are extention of PKK but it is also right that most of the Kurds support PKK, under threat or not, nothing much changes. Turks and Kurds are brothers is such a big baloney...

And sounds like we have yet another extension of them here in this site.

There are racists and fascists on both sides. If we dont stop them they will succeed to split our country..

Basically, fighting against racism is a fight to keep Turkey with its borders. That is what it is all about.

Any racism, which does not matter Turkish or Kurdish, is separatist!!

But I am still hopeful about the situation. We will reject the racism and keep our country intact.

 Research shows that most Kurds do not support PKK... so... there you go I posted the link to the research a while back, too lazy to look it up. It was done by a Turkish University if I remember correctly. It showed how the majority of the Kurds didn´t support PKK, and how the majority of the Turks thought that Kurds do support PKK.

Who cares that researchs? Were you thinking that they would say they were supporting PKK openly at that time? In past many similar researchs had done in order to emphasize the Turkish & Kurdish brothership and to help Turks sleep. But now people do not swallow these lies. Actually it was well-known but people were afraid to voice it especially Kurds, every action done secretly. But with current Turkish government, they dont need to fear anything, and they know it very well, so now it can be easily observed that most of the Kurds support PKK and they have a voice in parliament which is BDP. Now Turks also observe this when terrorists weolcomed by a whole city or when whole city attended the funeral ceremony of terrorists with their slogans. The latest slogan came from Yüksekova which is " PKK is pubic and public is here" as you see they now can say this openly without fear, similar to other slogans that are praising terrorist leader even Seyh Said etc. Have you ever seen a terrorist organization living for years without public support??

The PKK has support, but saying that MOST of the Kurds support PKK is wrong. You have NO evidence to back up that statement, and it only helps the division of people who are living in one country.

Ok doğrucu barba, i know generalizing is not good... 

+10000

Correct analysis. Of course, it is not 100% in my view but the gist of it is correct..

Thank you..

Why not..

Below are the points I agree with his post and almost identical to what I have been saying :

Who cares that researchs? Were you thinking that they would say they were supporting PKK openly at that time? In past many similar researchs had done in order to emphasize the Turkish & Kurdish brothership and to help Turks sleep. But now people do not swallow these lies. Actually it was well-known but people were afraid to voice it especially Kurds, every action done secretly. But with current Turkish government, they dont need to fear anything, and they know it very well, so now it can be easily observed that most of the Kurds support PKK and they have a voice in parliament which is BDP. Now Turks also observe this when terrorists weolcomed by a whole city or when whole city attended the funeral ceremony of terrorists with their slogans. The latest slogan came from Yüksekova which is " PKK is pubic and public is here" as you see they now can say this openly without fear, similar to other slogans that are praising terrorist leader even Seyh Said etc. Have you ever seen a terrorist organization living for years without public support??

The gist in Armegon´s post is ´Kurds have a party they support and the party is not denying their indirect links with PKK´ (same as sinn fein -IRA)

He just said what I have been trying to say (and being critisized by the people like ´no Kurds dont support BDP/if they do, they were thretened by PKK  blah blah..´

So why do you think my post is wrong?  (and the number +100000 ? )

Theh, don´t hide behind armegon´s post. He doesn´t know what he is talking about. Almost half of the Kurds in that region voted for AKP (see the election statistics). Kurds living in western Turkey didn´t vote for the Kurdish political party BDP but for Turkish neo-islamist party AKP. If you think all the Kurds voted for BDP, you will have to say that only 5.7% of the population of Turkey is Kurds!  

It is known that PKK is not "100% made in Turkey". At least 30% of the militants are from Syria, Iran, Iraq and Armenia ( I am wondering what democratic rights Turkey could give, for example, a Syrian citizen!)  and north of Iraq has been nest for this terrorist organisation for more than two decades because of the absence of the authority (thanks to United States for creating such a territory above the 36th parallel !) If PKK Camps were in Turkey, they would have no chance to survive.  Kurdish problem of Turkey cannot be understood without attention to "the Big Middle East Project", without attention to "the Middle East petroleum", without attention to "the safety of Israel".

I wish the Kurdish Problem of Turkey were so simple as you described, but unfortunately not, and as long as United States (=American Petroleum Companies) sees PKK like a pawn on chessboard (named Middle East) to move forward, I am afraid, we won´t be able to solve the problem. 

Another thing to note here that approximately 30% of the soldiers who lost their lives during the terrorists attacks of PKK were of Kurdish origin (An example was given in this thread).

I know. It is not Armegon we know.. But there is also this theory that we, Turks have a kind of societal schizophrenia and in this, we would like to present a solidarity to the world and say ´A´ but in our close circuits we say the truth, ´B´. I guess he felt really comfortable writing in tc and thought no need to lie anymore
Ok what is the lie here? The lie is ´Kurds do not support their own Kurdish party which does NOT see PKK as terrorist´.
See, you yourself is saying that they voted for AKP and Kurdish party. Why? Because AKP is the only party that ´tries to do something for them such as Kurdish opening/ Kurdish channel etc´ whereas, almost all nationalists are warmongering.

Dont you see Kurds are practically spitting on the face of people who says ´this is terrorism only´ by not voting for them..
They are definitely not voting for the biggest fascist/racist party of Europe, MHP and so-called social, so-called democrat party CHP. They are obviously voting for either Their own Kurdish party or the islamic party which says ´Together, we are Turkey´. They are not voting for racist parties that says ´Turkey belongs to Turks´.
So basically, I dont think I was hiding  behind Armegon´s post. I was kind of thinking that my ideas are vindicated..

Anyway, the rest of your post is bit of a fantasia, a bit of a blaming others for our own Kurdish problem which has been the result of our own short coming and our own ruthless/racist and failed assimilation attempts on Kurds. But most of all is ´not knowing the history´.

Kurds have been rebelling since 1920s. Pkk itself was created in 1970s long before "the Big Middle East Project". That is nothing to do with 36 parallel or 136 parallel..

Good post! (I didn´t want to press "like this message" because it would seem like I like people dying in this conflict)

Scalpel, i understand what you are trying to say, but i do know what i am talking about. Please tell me what is the big difference between AKP & BDP? Werent those the AKP parliaments who met with terrorist leader im İmralı to get a deal? And they are still denying it. As i mentioned before, AKP is much more sneaky and dangerous. Isnt the PM of Turkey one of the co-president of Middle East project? And he is proud of it. And i was generally talking about the Kurds in that region. Its all about money and people´s benefit. I hope you had seen people when they were welcomimg terrorists, or you had seen people in Lice or people in Van or people in Hakkari, Yüksekova etc. PKK is a vital spot for them, they were too much spoiled by the Turkish governments especially the latest one, now it came nearly to a uprising. I said 2 years ago in this forum; when terrorism again accelarated, this are the good days of Turkey and it seems i was right. The Kurds in that region use PKK as a threat tool if they do not get anything that they want from the Turkish authorities, so why do they want PKK terrorism come to an end? They do not pay tax or electicity-water bill etc, they are taking agricultural aid from government even they dont use it in agriculture. Each child who came to school age are paid money monthly, when money was a little late, parents theraten school management that they wont send their children to school. Smuggling is also vital for them, because of terror chaos and absence of authority in that region, smuggling become more easy. Now think about what will happen if terror came to an end in region. By the way this is the one point im talking about, i didnt talk their other supports.

And theH, i am same as before, if you remember, maybe the first time i agreed with you when you openly said that terrorists are supported by Kurds...

Praising or justifying the acts of a terrorist organization can be considered as a propaganda of terrorism and might constitute a crime.

In this case, we are  talking about the PKK which is officially classified as a terrorist organization. This is the verdict of the international courts. Praising their acts, justifying  the reason of their existence makes you a terrorist too. You are no different from many advocates of terrorism. Most British publications suggest writing responsibly and avoiding to put oneself in danger when contributing to an online edition. Why, because you may be held accountable for what you are writing.

Don´t think you are invisible, write responsibly and don´t advocate terrorists. This is a clean platform where we talk about Turks, Turkish language etc. If you continue like this I will have to contact the admin reporting the possible legal consequences of turning this into a platform for terrorist propoganda and get your account deleted. Calm down and write responsibly...

Armegon

This is for you I assume .

ps..I never thought he was going to be warned for praising PKK..

 Consider this a general warning but there is a reason why you come to mind the first.

Well,

Obviously, then, you did not understand what I write or have written here.. As I said many times, you can delete the things you think they are deletable.. I am free to defend they are not..

How shameless members we have here.

Anyone show me that i praised PKK, i will happily delete my post... 

Are you serious?

This is a personal attack.. I am hoping that Vineyards will see this and delete..

Me too..

All I was saying was approving what you said.. Geez!!

This is getting stupidly ridicilous!!

I don´t think so. It´s just what it all seems.

I am not a mod here. I can´t delete any messages posted here.

Well I am sure vinyards as a mod will see this and delete your post WHICH IS CLEARLY A PERSONAL ATTACK.

If he does not, he obviously will say that ´as a mod, I dont care about forum rules´ and then open path of public insulting eachother..

I am sure he will be able to see this..

It says you are in my screen.. will you delete the messages containing the personal attack please?

it says

General/Off-topic
Moderators: Deli_kizin, libralady, Sonunda, Vineyards

You are so over-sensitive today. I was just describing what it seems like. You know what we say of "yüzüne tükürsen allaha şükür diyenler"?

Yes it says so but I don´t have access to mod features. Maybe there is a mistake in configuration or maybe I am mistakenly reported as a mod here. In any case, I can´t delete messages here.

Come on

You very well know as you have been long enough around that I am very capable making you  ´lick your own spit and forcing you say ´allaha sukur´ afterwards´..

I am just trying to protect you here

I´ve found I can´t delete messages in other sections either. There is either a configuration problem or maybe I am not a mod anymore

Oh thanks

But don´t try to change the subject, everybody can see who has been the extension (advocate/supporter/..) of PKK here just by reading this thread alone.

Right..

Keep smiling and say ´yarabbi sukur´

Right what? So you don´t deny it? Seni biraz somurtkan gördüm bu arada.

TheH this for you, below is what i said one and a half years ago, during our discussion, and that time it seems i was surprised, you mentioned this openly for the first time;

Quote:

But i do know you have respect for terrorists. Then why dont they really voice it publicly? I think it is the most suitable time. Are they ashamed of something? Actually i have to agree maybe the first time with you on this issue, many of them support terrorists in someways. I just voiced the general view that "But most of the Kurds in Turkey do not fancy with pkk".  One of the interesting thing i realized that none of Kurdish friends that i recognized in my life support these terrorist, actually they clearly curse them except some complaints about Turkish government.

Not really..

But I wont tolerate people´s blatant  rudeness deriving from their inability to answer my posts and their ignorance about the subject..

I am still thinking I should not be the subject here.

All I did was approving of some of what Armegon said which I have always said..

Hmmm...can´t understand why....."if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck....it must be a.....duck" keeps going through my mind.

We have many sayings to describe these kind of things:

Zeytinyağı gibi üste çıkar (He floats atop like olive oil)

Yavuz hırsız evsahibini suçlu çıkarır (Good thieve turns the house owner into the guilty one)

Yüzüne tükürsen yağmur yağıyor diye allaha şükreder (If you spit on his face, he thanks God saying it is raining).

I feel another thread coming on

You really do not see your shortcomings, ignorance about the subjects and inability to argue in this forum? 

I mean I am serious!! 

Dont you simply just see that your frustration and then switching into rudeness with Turkish idioms or switching to Turkish when accusing people being an Armenian etc is telling us(me) that you simply UNABLE TO ANSWER or produce anything tangible about the topic discussed and that is FRUSTRATION?

Phew!!! 

Your political analysis is funny and perhaps inclined a little towards stupidity.

1) The reason half of them vote for neo-islamist AKP is not Kurdish opening-mopening (which doesn´t exist anymore) but Kurdish people are often deeply religious.Because PKK has Marxist- Leninist roots (in ignorant people´s minds, marxist=atheist=enemy of Islam) religious Kurds don´t like PKK and support AKP. Only two political parties (AKP, BDP) which have a great chance of abusing the different sensivities of Kurdish people, are the good addresses for the votes of the region to go. 

2) You say "Kurds have been rebelling since 1920´s". You are trapped by your own words! Then kindly inform us since when the Western imperialist powers have been in the Middle East? And why? According to your theory American and British troops have been having picnic in Iraq and they are harvesting hashish in Afghanistan. The poor Saddam-in the other world- should be thinking this way:I shouldn´t blame Bush. He didn´t hung me.I must have lost my life in a traffic accident.  

Geez..

Why do you need to LOWER the level of your IQ in every single post when you answer me ?

Obviously, it is an analysis and it can be subjected to crititism.. But WHY ON earth you are lowering the level of language and showing your frustration? (is it simply you are unable to prove what you are saying? )

Go and ask why Kurds are supporting BDP and PKK.  Ask Armegon why he thinks KURDS ARE SUPPORTING PKK?

They are supporting BDP. They are not suporting any of the other parties..CHP/MHP they DONT EXISTS THERE.. They are not accepting the Turkish nationalist approach..

You hate it, you dont want to hear about it balh blah.. But it does not matter. Theye are there.. Kurds are there.. They are voting BDP.. They are in the parlimant.  You have to accept that as the REALITY AND admit you were wrong.. (There is nothing wrong with admitting that )

You dont know your own history but you are quite happy to talk about what you dont know..

Our Kurdish problem has been a problem since 1920s... This is being accepted by almost everybody.. What is your benefit in this denial? (Ah of course, sorry.. it is nothing to do with ´eu and usa´  as you were told by our generals. I thought you would not believe their lies as they told us so many)

YOUR president is telling you that Our Kurdish Problem is our INTERNAL PROBLEM..

YOUR PM is telling you that he has to continue with Kurdish opening.

YOUR Kurkish population is ASKING FOR more rights and asking for that opening..

And what is all these USA´s invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan  got to do with PKK  which was formed in 1970s and our Kurdish problem since 1920s? Did  G Bush advice Kenan Evren in 1980´s that ´you ban Kurdish language and change all kurdish names in the map´ in advance before becoming president? Or was it Americans told us ´torture Kurds more in Diyarbakir prison´? Are you sure you are not mixing the lies of war loving generals with the start of our Kurdish problem and everything?  It seems it is all mixed to me!!

And in the end.. the choice is very simple:

You give their rights to KURDS and live in peace as single country..

Or you dont give anything and insist that it is terrorism only and get more poeple killed and split Turkey in the end..

I prefer the first option.  And what you prefer is not what I prefer!!!

 Just because to make them understandable by your level 

Come on..

You are trying your best and that is your best..

So what about the topic mentioned there? You dont have any answers? 

You are just like s++, who can not answer and who can not argue, who can not prove what he is saying and turn everything into a slang match?  

Go ;read; think and then come back into the politics section stronger please.

You are no fun to argue..

 It appears that the level is still too high for you to understand, Should I lower it a bit more?

Still no mentioning about the topics?

I would not think so!! Clever

double post

Velev ki I am not.. it wont change the fact that ´you are against the peace and in favour of seeing people get killed and will cause the splitting of my country´ will it?

And it is not a good idea and time for you really to come on me right now. I just read an article about ´us not giving the bodies of killed PKK members to their families and what was done to their bodies..

http://www.gencbilim.com/Haber/Cenazeye-saygi_80320.html

Read it yourself and dont say a word please..

I really want to have a go at full scale sometimes.. So dont!!

All in all hanso, you have managed to turn this thread into PKK propaganda again as you always do.

 As usual, you can not answer. Because you have no answer.. Just like a broken record the same all same all..

As I said many times in the past ONLY A TURKISH RACIST WILL ACCUSE OTHERS AS BEING A NON TURK. The reason is very simple: Because they think ´calling a person non Turk´ is the worst insult. The head of the army did the same thing for example.. So it is very common and overall behavior by common racists..

So you are not denying that you go for option ´b´? And you are proud of it?

And as for the news, keep burying your head into the sand..

End of that article it says :"Insan bir hayvana bile bunu yapmaz"-

´Human beings dont do  this even to an animal´.

No surprise from me that you are not interested in hearing that..

Hanso, you do it again. You call me racist. Isn´t this a personnal attack? You resort to calling others racists at some point as you did many times.

I have reasons to believe that you are not Türk. I believe some other Turkish members also think that you are not a Türk. Anyway that said, I don´t think not being a Türk is an insult. It´s just that you keeping saying you are Türk but you are not able to convince us Türks here. You may be a Kürd, an Armenian or whatever, I don´t have a problem with that. But don´t keep saying you are a Türk here.

I wonder why these that don´t agree with TheHandsome think he´s not a Turk? Do all Turks have to share the same point of view?

I am not doing anything at all..

Why do I need to convince anybody about anything? 

are you really "unable to see the racism" in what you are saying? I am serious!! 

I mean really..!!!

ps..Just a few days ago, the head of the army said very similar thing for some journalists. He said something like ´they dont have Turkish blood in them´ etc. Of course he was blasted back as being a common racist.  But the real problem is that  the head of the army is unable to understand why it is racism.  He thinks that it is pure form of nationalism. When the head of the army thinks that way, no huge surprise why army boot fetishists  think the same..  

You don´t need to (or have to) convince anybody. But you don´t convince me (and probably some others) about your being Türk. It´s it and that´s that. You don´t have to do anything about it. Never mind. Let it go.

By the way I am not happy with exchanging tits for tats with you. I am trying to avoid it but you keep provoking.

I think I will put the addition in my post again

ps..Just a few days ago, the head of the army said very similar thing for some journalists. He said something like ´they dont have Turkish blood in them´ etc. Of course he was blasted back as being a common racist.  But the real problem is that  the head of the army is unable to understand why it is racism.  He thinks that it is pure form of nationalism. When the head of the army thinks that way, no huge surprise why army boot fetishists  think the same..  

I was not even arguing with you in this thread..

So who is coming for more tit for tat?

Anyway...just let it go..

Quoting si++

Kardelen soldu

 

Another victim of this terrorist attack, sergeant Mehmet Çağlar Bölük was the husband of Elif İmenç Bölük who had played in the advertisment movies for a campaign launched for convincing the Kurdish families in the east of Turky who do not send their girls to school.

 

Quoted from: here

Elif is a Kardelen (a name of flower). Kardelen is also a name project who provides education facilities for the little girls of (usually) Kurdish families in the East and South-East Turky. Elif is of Kurdish origin.

She has become a teacher with the help of Kardelen project. Then she started her carrier to help other Kurdish girls like herself in the South-East Turky where she met his Turkish husband (who was a victim of the Halkalı bombing). Then they moved to Istanbul and as a result she lost her husband.

Başbuğ, Head of Genaral Staff, talked about Elif´s wish for becoming an army officer to teach in the Army. Başbuğ said "Her demand to become a teacher in the Army will of course be fulfilled".

Elif will start her carrier in the army with lieutenant rank.

Apparently, the number of "children" killed in this war reached to 500..

We keep forgetting of course but the first recorded incident was in 1988 and the little boy called Ramazan Dag.. He got killed by mistake .. He was not even 13..

There is a new series about who these children are and how they got killed..

Each of them is heartbreaking; each of them  individually, is enough for all of us to think what this war is taking from all of us..   

Maybe all of these stories should be made public everywhere to show people what the real meaning of war is.

People who are against the peace should read them maybe so  they see what they support and question themselves if their objectives are more sacred than those children´s lives..  

Quoting si++

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elif is a Kardelen (a name of flower). Kardelen is also a name project who provides education facilities for the little girls of (usually) Kurdish families in the East and South-East Turky. Elif is of Kurdish origin.

She has become a teacher with the help of Kardelen project. Then she started her carrier to help other Kurdish girls like herself in the South-East Turky where she met his Turkish husband (who was a victim of the Halkalı bombing). Then they moved to Istanbul and as a result she lost her husband.

Başbuğ, Head of Genaral Staff, talked about Elif´s wish for becoming an army officer to teach in the Army. Başbuğ said "Her demand to become a teacher in the Army will of course be fulfilled".

 

Elif will start her carrier in the army with lieutenant rank.

Terrorism is the enemy of humanity. it doesnt have a target, they can kill everyone at any time.  

Elif´s situation summarizes the PKK terrorism. in the funeral,  she called out to terrorists: "who are you? I am a kurdish girl, and I have a kurdish family, who wanted from you to defend my right?"

I am begining to think if we are talking about the same thing?

Look at the website and look at southeast or Turkey? Look at the colours!! 

http://secim.haberler.com/2009/

Almost all critics/scolars/politicians even the army  are accepting the fact that Kurds are supporting BDP.. The very Kurdish people are telling you that. I am sorry but you coming back as ´BDP is not supported by Kurds´ is something no one believes.. And I still dont understand why you are trying insist on this?

I can even understand people saying ´they do support  buy they are threatened by PKK´ because there is admission there  about the support.. But trying to prove that Kurds dont support BDP is a joke!! 

Yet another exaggeration. At least 90% of the Turks think ´Turkey belongs to Turks´ is an idiotic slogan. And guess what.. you are not the only one thinking that way. 

So please, stop making it look like you are the last and the most clever and educated Kurd this planet has ever seen.

Well, I dont think you are telling the truth with that.. Turkey has the biggest racist party of Europe..They have the vote 20% at least.

But I welcome you for ridiculing the racists slogans.. I hope you will join me in calling "andimiz" as racist as well..

The rest of your post is based on the fact that I was Kurdish..

It was a seriously wrong assumption.. 

So. Stop messing around and say you are with the option a or b?

It is a very simple question..

(repeating again as you refuse to answer it )

a) Give their rights to Kurds and live with them peacefully (Banning their language and trying to assimilate them and insisting ´there are no kurds´, forcing them ´look you are Turks´ did not work)

b) Insist that it is terrorism only (like we did since 198 and accuse USA and EU and see more people dying and eventually see Turkey being split.

ps.. If you really dont know what rights taken from Kurds and asking for a list, and if you are serious on that question I am afraid to say to you but, you should really just stop arguing with me and look around if  the country you have been living in is called Turkey really.  

It is not about peace or Kurdish rights or Kurdish identity. This is something else that Kurds were promised that is why there is public support, it is very clear since BDP(former DTP) parliaments declared that Öcalan is their leader. PKK established in 70s in other words a way before the Diyarbakır prison unlike the claims of our so democratic and liberal intellectuels mention that this prison created PKK.  At first they were picking off one boy or a girl from each house in each village to raise them as militants on mountains, any family rejecting this were being killed, so if you were Kurd and didnt like pkk, your punishment was execution of you and your family. Yes, pkk is a terrorist organisation and its supporters and sympathisers are no different than them, even they were forced, their aim is peace or what?? Weapons are in good harmony with peace, right?? Aim is surely not peace or Kurdish rights or Kurdish identity, as i told in my previous post, they have got many benefits as well since pkk is the biggest drug-smuggler of the middle east, there is a big unearned income there, which terrorist organization wants to give up this?

Anyway if we come to our day, we are now living a phase of legalization and justification of PKK, also with the great effort of ruling party of Turkey.  In this process the massacres of terrorist organization are also trying to be pinned on Turkish army via the help of Ergenekon theatre and the proponent  media in order to justify pkk terrorism. Most Kurds see Öcalan as their leader even their extensions in parliament points out him to negotiate not themselves.  So what do they want? Only the Kurdish rights? Do these terrorists live on the mountains like an animal just to obtain Kurdish rights? Do they take the risk of being killed just because they are not educated in Kurdish?  Absolutely not. There is another motive. Turkish people have been injected for years that Kurds are our brothers, ok most of us see them as brothers, but what about Kurds? Same is valid for them? There is big Kurdification ongoing in this region since 70s, actually it is spattered the whole Turkey especially the big cities and the touristic areas.

What happened in the latest period  with the famous Kurdish opening? Now TRT is 24 hours broadcasting in Kurdish, there are departments of Kurdish Literature in Turkish universities, Kurdish newspapers, magazines, journals, books are being published more than before, there are Kurdish language courses(even they do not attract anyone), Kurdish Institutes, Kurdish charity funds etc. It seems all of these are not enough to satisfy Kurds because people are still talking on TVs, newspapers, everywhere about “Kurdish problem”. Now what else left?  Maybe only Kurdish education in public schools.  Do anyone think PKK cease fire and “Kurdish problem” will be solved if this also accepted? Never!  This is not the main issue of course, do not try to fool yourselves.  What they want is, in the first step PKK and islamist Kurds(AKP supporters) demand a federated region similar to one in Iraq which compasses East and South East of Turkey. I think you all can guess what will happen if Turkey accepts this. Terrorist leader in İmralı also emphasized this clearly in his map route solving “Kurdish problem”. This murdered was begging to Turkish state during his judgement that he was now under the command of Turkey, he would do anything for Turkey, even he was crying that his mother is of Turkish origin. I told this to see in which situation is in Turkey now.  Anyway addition to these one more reason  why pkk wont cease fire is of course the money, pkk is a big holding, picking off huge amount of money from Turkey and Iran pass points by extortion or directly smuggling.

And as for the priorities of West and AKP was firstly to justify PKK terrorism, they firstly planned to disarm some group of terrorists and make them capitulate but of course they were promised to be free, even some of them proposed to live in European countries, other ones planned to be integrated with Barzani forces who is in my opinon legal pkk. The rest continue to smuggling and would be hold as a threat to Turkish Republic. But when the first group of terrorists welcomed like heros by Kurds which caused a big reaction in Turkish society, first attempt of the plan was badly failed. And now it is in the period of sagnation.  Pkk attacks started agin heavily because it seems Turkish government is not able to fulfill its promises. One of their other plan was also to free the  terrorist leader so that he could be the president of federated Kurdish region in Turkey, similar to Barzani in Iraq.  AKP tried this very hard in every year of their rulership, i remember people are calling AKP as “Arab Kurdish Party” at that time.

Actually main aim is to create a new tampon Kurdish state in the region to secure the petroleum and of course the Israel as a project of middle east.  But since AKP could not get along good with Israel and fulfill his promises to Kurds, it is now in sagnation as i mentioned, there are some changes taking place in Turkish politics during this period. Lets see what will happen in future, especially after elections.

Members of the peace groups that arrived in Turkey on 19 October upon the call from  Abdullah Öcalan are reported to go back to Kurdistan Region in Iraq.Peace groups that came from both Qandil Mountain and Makhmur Refugee Camp are going back to Makhmur due to pressure and prosecution they are subjected by the Turkish government.

http://www.timeturk.com/acilim-icin-gelenler-geri-dondu_132986-haberi.html

Well done nationalists.. You managed to prevent the peace once more !! Be proud of yourself.. 

Why put all the blame on Turks? Kurds should see their wrongdoings too.

Will you go and blame them now? 

Who does not want peace here now eh?

Tell us who? 

Tell us that you want peace!! and tell us that they are the ones who dont want peace!!

Can you?

Can you put your hand into your heart and say that you want peace and ready to live with the Kurds?

From what I see more and more Kurds (Thanks to the PKK) do not want to live with Turks. You can easily see their hate against Turks. Why should I want to live with those who hate us? More and more Turks do not want to live with them either. Day by day we are heading to you-know-where.

Well we want peace and we want to live with Kurds ... You can go and march up and down chanting  ´ I want war; I dont want peace´

We will always support peace and be against the division of Turkey.. We have seen enough blood.. 

Who are you? We don´t have the likes of you here? Continue to stay in UK and live there.

If Kurds hate us, we hate them too. What´s else can you expect? If that leads to separation so be it. That can be good for both parties. I think we are going in that direction.

I know you hate them.. That is the reason why you dont like the idea of ´peace´.

So let it be known..

WE want peace and not separation. That is all from my point..

How do you know? Everyday I interact with Kurds. Believe me those who know personnaly like me.

I am stating my observation. I see their hate against us on their looks and acts (through media coverage). I hate their hate against us, that´s only it.

I hate you because you hate me and I hate the way you hate me... HUH? The only way that there can ever be some kind of progress in this situation is if everybody just stops saying to eachother "you go first!" It´s just ridicolous... everybody is waiting for the other to make the first step, go on their knees and cry "everything was my fault".

And 6(+1) more soldiers die!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10696410

The mines put to kill Turkish soldiers have killed 4 Kurdish people. The PKK terrorists started a fire in an oil production field in Batman. The villager who saw the fire were heading to the field in a car to stop the fire. But an explosion occurred on the way and 4 lost their lives.

During the funeral, Gülten Kışanak, Assistant president of BDP (the Kurdish party) had hard times in finding the right words when speaking of the incident.

Quoted from: here

This  was a really sad news for everybody.

But a few days ago a video was released. A video, a Heron UAV airplane broadcast the attack live to 30 different location in the army, including the army HQ!!!

The sad thing is PKK militants were there for more than an hour..And the help with helicopters or jet fighters could have been there in 15 minutes..

Now everybody is wondering why nobody sent any rescue to these soldiers? Who watched soldiers die live?

The images are unbearable to watch!!!

Hand grenades were thrown at the soldiers.They even fired bullets at soldiers who had already died!! 

(it was like watching the movie, ´nefes´ but knowing that it happened in real)

The relatives of the martyrs expect an explanation. !!!!!!

Not only the army and the General Staff, but also certain media organizations are silent. Hurriyet /milliyet/radikal even did not mention it as news... Mr. Erdogan, Mr. Kiliçdaroglu and Mr. Bahçeli. Those who make a spectacle at martyrs’ funerals are also silent.

I wonder where they are!!!

The video:

http://www.iha.com.tr/haber/videowatcher.aspx?cid=11&vid=6987

This is related to the news more than a month ago..20th July when we lost 6 soldiers die.

In the end, Turkish army released a statement..

http://www.hurriyetdailynews....ns-left-unanswered-questions-2010-08-22

..

The daily Taraf has accused the military of doing nothing to prevent the July 20 PKK attack on a post in Çukurca in the eastern province of Hakkari. Its headline said, "Generals watched soldiers die." Citing video from a Heron, an unmanned surveillance aircraft, that showed the PKK methodically conducting its operation, the daily said the military failed to intervene even though the drone’s pictures were broadcast live to over 30 different military units, including the Chief of the General Staff. According to the statement, all 30 units do not receive the same broadcast. Which units were receiving the Hantepe recordings was not mentioned.

.....

The General Staff argued the leaked Heron video of Hantepe begins 46 minutes after the attack since the Heron captured the video was at a different location. Taraf denied this in its Sunday edition; stating they have recordings before the attack. Also in its Sunday edition, Taraf asked how the DhSK guns, a Russian made anti-aircraft weapon also known as dhocka that weighs 175 kilograms when mounted, were transferred to the location by PKK without being noticed.

The General Staff has also faced criticism over the late deployment of support ground troops who arrived on foot hours after ambulance services had already reached the area. The Saturday statement did not mention anything about the ground troops.

..

Such a shame.. such a shame!!