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Humans : Are they good or evil?
(61 Messages in 7 pages - View all)
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30.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 03 Aug 2010 Tue 08:53 pm

 I cut a bit in the following quote:

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

 1)... You said yourself you feel joy when you see a smile on a child´s face. But you don´t feel any joy when you see a smile on a serial killer´s face. So you choose people you want to help. This is egoist. A serial killer is a human too. And his smile is not different from a child´s smile. ...

2) You say you have never hated anyone who hurt your ego. Let me prove you are wrong with your words. You talk like you hate or don´t like serial killers? Have you ever asked yourself why? Because they hurt your ego.... According to Freud, the superego begins to emerge at around age five.(think they will never harm you. You trust them. This pleases your superego.

3) So everything is about ego. Freud saw these and called humans evil or bad by nature. But i don´t agree with him. Being egoist is not always a bad thing.

 

 1) I said I do not feel joy seeing the smile on his face, confessing the MURDER of children. There are different smiles And I would not find joy in his smile after he would not be convicted for example, because of a technical error. This is a smile of injustice, that doesn´t give me joy. I do get a fuzzy feeling from smiles of criminals who work with street-dogs. (Just saw the documentary on discovery )

2+3) In my opinion Freud was a bit of a quack, especially during his last years  (quackery is şarlatanlık). Okay, quack is a bit overstated. I think 80% of his ideas were totally crazy. When I first started to study psychology I thought "wow, interesting, I never realised that" with what I read from his work. Most people quote Freud, so I thought he MUST be right. But as I started to read more and more of his work, and learned about his life, I started to totally disagree with his views. The guy was a total nutcase (with a deadly fear of the number 62), and connected almost every single problem a person could have with sexuality.

31.       lemon
1374 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 12:44 am

Gok-m, loved your initial post. Agree.

32.       lemon
1374 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 12:50 am

People are evil, esp. Dutch, English, American, Turkish, Polish...  {#emotions_dlg.neutral}

33.       alameda
3499 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 01:57 am

No, I do not think humans are all evil....but certainly, some are. Humans can be the highest of the high, or the lowest of the low.

When we see cases of psychopathic personality....I´d call that pretty evil...

 

 

34.       elenagabriela
2040 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 07:59 am

errare humanum est sed perseverare diabolicum

35.       lemon
1374 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 08:40 am

 

Quoting alameda

No, I do not think humans are all evil....but certainly, some are. Humans can be the highest of the high, or the lowest of the low.

When we see cases of psychopathic personality....I´d call that pretty evil...

 

 

 

Alameda, you are so humanist. All humans are equally evil, including you alameda.

36.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 09:28 am

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

Alameda, you are so humanist. All humans are equally evil, including you alameda.

 I think all humans are evil according to common ethics. But they are not equally evil. Not everybody is a Hitler or Stalin. I call them negative egoists. Because their egoism is destructive.

I defend only one thing all humans are egoists.

 

37.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 09:59 am

 

Quoting barba_mama

 I cut a bit in the following quote:

 

 1) I said I do not feel joy seeing the smile on his face, confessing the MURDER of children. There are different smiles And I would not find joy in his smile after he would not be convicted for example, because of a technical error. This is a smile of injustice, that doesn´t give me joy. I do get a fuzzy feeling from smiles of criminals who work with street-dogs. (Just saw the documentary on discovery )

2+3) In my opinion Freud was a bit of a quack, especially during his last years (quackery is şarlatanlık). Okay, quack is a bit overstated. I think 80% of his ideas were totally crazy. When I first started to study psychology I thought "wow, interesting, I never realised that" with what I read from his work. Most people quote Freud, so I thought he MUST be right. But as I started to read more and more of his work, and learned about his life, I started to totally disagree with his views. The guy was a total nutcase (with a deadly fear of the number 62), and connected almost every single problem a person could have with sexuality.

 As much as i know Freud is an important man.He is the founder of the psychoanalytic school of psychiatry. Freud thought human is a puppet of his brutal and sexual wills. He thought human is a destructive animal. So he called humans evil. But i don´t agree with him. I don´t think humans are always destructive. He defends there are only two motives under our behaviors: sex and brutality. Maybe he thinks all kinds of pleasures(being proud, feeling good) are some kind of sexual emotions. I am not sure. But i think there is one motive too it is "to know". People always wanted to know more along the history. And they didn´t care whether others condemn them or not. The will of knowing generally makes people creative and constructive. But not always. The will of knowing whether the atom would break up or not caused atom bombs to be made.

I think the important question here why people always want to know more? Because people are egoist creatures. We always want to have more. More money, more women, more dignity and more knowledge. We can never satisfy our wills for a long time. Always the new ones will show up. Maybe Freud thought this would cause destruction in the society in the end. But we also help more people to satisfy ourselves more. So wanting something more is not always destructive. Wanting to know more is the motive of scientists. And thanks to it, we live these comfortable lives.

 

So egoism is not always bad



Edited (8/4/2010) by gokuyum

38.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 11:59 am

I think this is also a debate about definitions. I think "selfish" means that you put your own joy above that of everybody else, and you only care about if YOU are happy. Your happiness can even come to the expence of other peoples happiness, you don´t care! Therefor, helping somebody else is 99% of the times not selfish. A truly selfish person will not get any joy from helping somebody else, because a selfish person will not get any joy from seeing somebody else happy.

Egoism is slightly different. I guess egoism is more about thinking that you are the centre of the universe, and having the utmost interest for yourself. Perhaps helping can be a part of egoism, if part of the egoistic ideal somebody has for him/herself is "the hero who helps others".

39.       lemon
1374 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 01:55 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 I think all humans are evil according to common ethics. But they are not equally evil. Not everybody is a Hitler or Stalin. I call them negative egoists. Because their egoism is destructive.

I defend only one thing all humans are egoists.

 

 

Of course, gok-m, you dont perceive as I do. All humans are equally evil according to Bible.

And yes, I agree, we are all selfish 100%

 

40.       lemon
1374 posts
 04 Aug 2010 Wed 01:59 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

I think this is also a debate about definitions. I think "selfish" means that you put your own joy above that of everybody else, and you only care about if YOU are happy. Your happiness can even come to the expence of other peoples happiness, you don´t care! Therefor, helping somebody else is 99% of the times not selfish. A truly selfish person will not get any joy from helping somebody else, because a selfish person will not get any joy from seeing somebody else happy.

Egoism is slightly different. I guess egoism is more about thinking that you are the centre of the universe, and having the utmost interest for yourself. Perhaps helping can be a part of egoism, if part of the egoistic ideal somebody has for him/herself is "the hero who helps others".

 

Barba, I hate reading your posts. You are such a New Age child! When you helped Haitans, you didn enjoy it. You informed us of your good deed. You always share about your good deeds. I dont think you ever suffered to make someone happy. You are very very selfish!

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