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Change of the constitution/referendum/not enough but YES
(12 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 11 Sep 2010 Sat 11:47 pm

In the referendum vote why is it ‘not enough but yes’?

..
...Turkey has modified its military inspired constitution sixteen times but this time the governmental package contains clauses deeply altering the actual way the military and the judiciary intervene in politics. To counter the power of the judiciary and to enhance the power of elected officials, the proposed changes in the appointment of the Judiciary to the High Council of Judges and Public Prosecutors and to the Constitutional Court are considered the most controversial amendments. ...

....

.... These are simply nothing but fights to reach a level of democracy needed in every democratic society. Turkey is settling scores and confronting itself. This is a huge construction site to free the country from the military and legal tutelage of the 1982 Constitution, inspired by the putsch leaders.

...
In the end, whatever the result will be, Turkey needs a new social contract, a brand new constitution. If it’s ´yes,´ the constitution process will be sped up and become a priority topic of the next elections due in 2011. If the package is rejected, the new constitution will be shelved for some time because the government’s hand will be weakened. And solutions to our arch-old problems, primarily the Kurdish question, will be delayed again. Make no mistake.

The Diyarbakir Prison

During the Diyarbakir rally last week Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan ...The unbearable reality of the infamous Diyarbakir prison emerges slowly but surely. Opinion leaders in the region and nongovernmental organizations working with those who survived their detention, demand transformation of this monument of shame into a permanent museum; something similar to the “Shame Museum” exhibition based on the Sept. 12, 1980 military coup that opened at the Ankara Modern Arts Center last week by the ’78 Federation. ..
In the aftermath of communism, plenty of similar museums were opened in Europe,   ´Museum of Communism´ in Prague and the ´Sighet Memorial and Museum to the Victims of Communism´ in Romania. Hungarians transformed the main torture center located in the center of Budapest, which was used by fascists first and then by communists, into a ´House of Terror.´ It is of course relatively easy to set-up a museum inspired by a delegitimated ideology. Our task is more difficult because the mentality behind the Diyarbakir prison still stands.

Full article:

http://www.hurriyet..referendum-vote-why-is-it-8216not-enough-but-yes 

 

===

We are seeing very serious changes in Turkey..
Years ago, people who used to say ´we will change, we will modernize ourselves and then we will become a member of the west´ are the biggest enemies of the west today..They are the ones who say ´why do we need EU what is wrong with Russia and Iran´.  Those are the core people who are going to say no in this referendum..

What we are seeing is ´the pain for a change´ in Turkey.  I think it is like giving birth to something new..

(I am not implying that these constitutional changes will bring something and that will be it.. I think ´this referendum and its results´ are just another one in the chain of changes we are witnessing ).

The ideology of  the people,who are saying NO to the constitutional changes, is like  ´the transformation-change- of people/state/country started in 1920s and finished in 1950s. Nothing needs to change but we should preserve what we have´.

The constitution we have in Turkey is from 1982 -made by the military regime- and in fact, the entire 1980 coup was the attempt to take Turkey back into 1930s.. They dreamed of creating a ´militarized nation´.
But the world has changed..So as Turkey and Turkish people..


We will see the results on monday morning..



Edited (9/11/2010) by thehandsom

2.       Arafta
54 posts
 12 Sep 2010 Sun 05:51 am

Quoting thehandsom


But the world has changed..So as Turkey and Turkish people..


We will see the results on monday morning..

The only thing we are going to see is how AKP will steal the ballots. Watch out, there will probably be a "power outage" tomorrow.

3.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 12 Sep 2010 Sun 11:36 am

 

Quoting Arafta

The only thing we are going to see is how AKP will steal the ballots. Watch out, there will probably be a "power outage" tomorrow.

 

I know, some CHP supporters get bitter and never accept the results of these elections..

4.       Arafta
54 posts
 12 Sep 2010 Sun 09:29 pm

and I know some Tayyip fetishists are proud of their thief leader.





OY HIRSIZLIÄžI BELGELENDÄ°
Hürriyet yazarı Yalçın Bayer, Beylikdüzü seçimlerinde oy hırsızlığının belgelendiğini yazdı.


http://www.odatv.com/n.php?n=oy-hirsizligi-belgelendi-1107101200

5.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 12 Sep 2010 Sun 09:39 pm

The result is 58% YES , 42 % no..

As I said  "the world has changed..So as Turkey and Turkish people"

Now, one of the implications of it is that, the article no 15, which was giving the coup leaders immunisation from the prosecution.. But not anymore from now on.

There will be some groups asking him to be tried legaly tomorrow morning.. He said he will commit suicide if it happens..

We will see.. lol



Edited (9/12/2010) by thehandsom

6.       janissaridis
148 posts
 13 Sep 2010 Mon 12:19 am

my vote was yes

elenagabriela liked this message
7.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Sep 2010 Mon 01:46 am

 

Quoting janissaridis

my vote was yes

 

It was the right thing to do in my view..

{#emotions_dlg.applause}{#emotions_dlg.applause}{#emotions_dlg.applause}

Ps..

I was planning to mention about "how old Greek and Christian people of Trabzon were made muslims and Turks in years after Istanbul was conquered". I will postpone it or not mention at all

Infact, with this increasing rate of current ´anti Serbianism´, I think I will start talking about possibility of having serbian ancesters some Turks might have..

 



Edited (9/13/2010) by thehandsom
Edited (9/13/2010) by thehandsom

8.       janissaridis
148 posts
 13 Sep 2010 Mon 09:10 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

It was the right thing to do in my view..

{#emotions_dlg.applause}{#emotions_dlg.applause}{#emotions_dlg.applause}

Ps..

I was planning to mention about "how old Greek and Christian people of Trabzon were made muslims and Turks in years after Istanbul was conquered". I will postpone it or not mention at all

Infact, with this increasing rate of current ´anti Serbianism´, I think I will start talking about possibility of having serbian ancesters some Turks might have..

 

 

 I know many about this topic ...

9.       si++
3785 posts
 13 Sep 2010 Mon 09:46 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

It was the right thing to do in my view..

{#emotions_dlg.applause}{#emotions_dlg.applause}{#emotions_dlg.applause}

Ps..

I was planning to mention about "how old Greek and Christian people of Trabzon were made muslims and Turks in years after Istanbul was conquered". I will postpone it or not mention at all

Oh please do. I am curious what you will come up with. If they were converted, how come they declared a Pontus state in 1917 in Trabzon area  before being sent to Greece with population exchange as a result of the collapse of the Greek front in Asia Minor? 

Infact, with this increasing rate of current ´anti Serbianism´, I think I will start talking about possibility of having serbian ancesters some Turks might have..

Can you be more specific? Where is your evidence to support this claim?

 

 

 

10.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Sep 2010 Mon 12:01 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

 

 

Apart from some state mouth piece  historians, almost all historians agree on the events happened in Balkans during Ottomani period..

Obviously, there was a christian population there with Serbs/Greeks/Bosnians/Albanians / Bulgarians/Croatians etc , when Ottomans conquered that part.. As we all know, when Ottoman empire was loosing its lands millions of people had to leave the places where they were living and born.

Millions immigrated to Turkey from Balkans (even after 1923, there was a population exchange)..We call them ´muhacirs´. So who were those muhacirs? Insisting that ´ah but they were all Turks´ wont make any sense because we know that there was a mass conversions from Christianity. (We almost all proud of it) We know that some soldiers which went there, stayed there. There were also some Turkmen tribes, some government sponsored ´kolonizator dervisler´- Ottomani islamic missionaries-. But simply those numbers were not enough to create Turkish-Islamic millions there.. Infact, many right wing nationalists in Balkans still insist that  their  Turkish islamic minority are the ones whose great great great parents were subjected to ´forced conversions´. Well of course, the forced conversion is a bit of a cock and bull story but we know that there were serious encouragements for converting people into Islam.. 

Anyway, cutting it short, it was a huge success story as far as how peaceful those masses of people were converted into a religion. Many of them immigrated to Turkey before and after the WWI. (That also explains why we dont look like Turks in central Asia  and why Turkish genes are quite low in people of Turkey today)

But since we dont care about the races and where our families come from, it should not bother us if some of us are having  Chethniks / Croats / Greeks or Bulgarians etc ancestors. Right?



Edited (9/13/2010) by thehandsom

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