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60.       lemon
1374 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 05:32 pm

Say everything and at the same time say nothing. Typical of you BM! Ms Political Correctness!

Moroccans cause trouble (finally your fingers type something), but wait a minute, my name is PC. Its not because they are muslims, not because they are moroccans. NO! They are Martians, thats why!

You mention two camps. And Im guessing you consider yourself bigger than those stupid two camps. You point out their PC, but dont see you are born PC. Im thinking the next Dutch generation will be Vaselines.

You blah blah and came to nothing. Well done!

Quoting barba_mama

 

Quoting alameda

Hm, this post shows that you clearly didn´t get my point. The problem with the Morrocon youth is not that they are Muslim, or even that they are Morroccon. It has to do with their families, their friends, their support system that is clearly lacking. And it lacks more for the average Morroccon youth than for example your average white middle class cloggy. My point was that I understand why some people link the problems that these young people cause with Islam, because the boys who make trouble every day say "Allah" and "I´m a Muslim, I don´t have to listen to you white imperialist" while they cause trouble. Instead of having an open head, you close the door. It is not Islam! you shout, instead of looking deeper into the problem of culture, parents, etc. How about recognizing that there ARE more problems under certain ethnic minorities, without demonizing them all? It takes some effort, but it is possible. And no, Morrocco was never a colony of Holland.

My point is, there seem to be two camps, who can never fix the problem. The one is the political correct camp, that says that are people are equal. It tries to apply "one size fits all" solutions to problems that clearly have a background in certain cultures (no, not in religion) and in certain problems that are linked to, for example, the lack of intergration of parents into society. The one size just doesn´t fit all!

The other camp misses the point completely as well. The blame everything on the big bad wolf, the "others". Right now it is Islam. Islam broke the economy, Islam is behind all violence, etc. It tries to solve unrelated problems by demonizing a religion. That won´t fix anything either!

I hope you understand my point now, because from your response last time I could see you didn´t get it that time.

 

 

By the way, where did the word assimilation come from? I don´t remember using it. I just mentioned it might be helpful for people to actually speak Dutch when they live in Holland. Or at a minimum English, since every teacher in Holland speaks English. Or do you think people have the "right" not to speak the local language? At my school we had translators in speed-dial, for all the parents who could not say more than "hello" and "yes" after living in Holland for 40 years. My frustration about that doesn´t make me a racist, it makes me a realist.

 

 

61.       lemon
1374 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 05:43 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

Discussing Brits and their misfortunes was much more fun; can we not get back to that subject ?

To be honest, these Brits really need a good lesson.

I found out today, that the closing events leading up to Armageddon starts with Jews returning to Jerusalem.

Now, who helped organize the Jews´ crafty return to Jerusalem? The Brits, of course !

Just to tease the old Pope, they put us all on the Armageddon route. Can you believe that?

{#emotions_dlg.rant}

 

 

Mentioning of Armageddon. I see you are quite literate on the Book of Revelation {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

However, you too much exaggerate the role of Brits. Who are they against Zionists? Plus, Brits did everything to halt the return of Jews. Didnt you know they built camps where they prisoned every Jew coming frm Europe, thus becoming the prototypes of nazi camps. Of course, these chapters of history arent well known.

Yes, the End Time starts when Jews return home. It has already started. Armageddon is near.

 

 

62.       amirak
56 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 07:48 pm

 

Quoting lemon

"you too much exaggerate the role of Brits. Who are they against Zionists? Plus, Brits did everything to halt the return of Jews."

{#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}  u r the one who´s minimizing the role of the brits in establishing the basis of the zionist racist state of israHELL. it all started with the lord Belfour, when out of GENEROUSITY, he promised to offer the persecuted jews in europe  a home  on a land that never belonged to him.

63.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 07:55 pm

Alameda - I don´t hate your hairstyle or garments more than you do hate mine And, I admit, saying assimilation I meant something more like phonetic assimilation (I´m a linguist, not a sociologist) where one phoneme becomes similar to neighbouring ones still keeping some of its qualities. If you´re troubled by the term used, can you please provide me whith a term that describes a process where immigrants give up their cultural bondage that contradicts the host country´s laws and values but still keep their own folklore? I´d appreciate it.

Reparations that you mention are a funny thing. They concern only deals signed between Germany and Israel for Holocaust. Colonisation was not Holocaust, was it? Besides, Germany did not pay to other countries that they invaded, eg Poland. So your argument is sort of weak here lol Just like Turkey didn´t pay to Greeks, Arabs to Spain etc.

For what I know, nobody in the evil west demands that immigrants forsake their language or religion. They just demand that they do not break the law and that they learn the language. Is that really too much to expect?

A perfect exaple of assimilation are Polish Tatars, they kept their religion but consider themselves Polish citizens - they serve in Polish army, go to school etc.

I feel very sorry for you, it must be tough to live in a country like the US. Country whose values you hate and you´d rather turn it into a country that hates personal freedom just like the Arab countries you love so much. I wonder what makes you liove in the US and not move to a country that is as tolerant of other cultures as SA (<-sarcasm). I guess after all it´s nice to praise other cultures as long as yo don´t have to live in them lol I reckon Google would be banned for you in the ideal country SA is. lol

lemon liked this message
64.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 10:38 pm

 

Quoting lemon

Say everything and at the same time say nothing. Typical of you BM! Ms Political Correctness!

Moroccans cause trouble (finally your fingers type something), but wait a minute, my name is PC. Its not because they are muslims, not because they are moroccans. NO! They are Martians, thats why!

You mention two camps. And Im guessing you consider yourself bigger than those stupid two camps. You point out their PC, but dont see you are born PC. Im thinking the next Dutch generation will be Vaselines.

You blah blah and came to nothing. Well done!

 

 

 

 Let me spell it out for you, since you NEVER get it. The reason they are criminal is an aray of reason, of which lack of parental support, with a basis in the culture is one of them. However, being from Morrocco doesn´t automatically makes somebody criminal! Why should I say such a thing if it isn´t true? That doesn´t make me miss PC, it makes me "miss doesn´t want to tell crazy lies just to seem cool and opinionated". Somebody else already is the latter in this forum, so I don´t have to go on that boat as well....

65.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 10:43 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

Gee, Barba,

How about Afghanis, Pakistanis, Iranis, Iraqies, Cuba, almost the entire South American countries?...You have problems with them too.

Fancy those buggers putting you through so much trouble...{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

Dont trust Brits either !...I hear they are organizing a ball in Armageddon, all behind your back !

 

Uh...what are you trying to say? I never had any problems with the Afghan kids in my school actually, all of their parents speak Dutch. They are typical late entry immigrants, political assylum seakers. They tend to speak English and take great effort to improve their Dutch. I don´t know why you are trying to make me seem racist (I guess that is what you are trying to do) when I´m just trying to show an example of what is really going on in Dutch society. It is easy for Turkish people to stand on the sidelines and say "ah, evil Westerners hate Muslims for no reason" when there are actually reasons why these feelings grew. A few rotten apples, bad handling of the problems with these apples, and populistic politicians who blow everything up. The whole racism towards Muslims didn´t fall from the sky yesterday, and yes it is grossly misplaced, but don´t deny that some groups have an over representation in the share of criminal activity in Holland. 

66.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 19 Nov 2010 Fri 11:22 pm

I did not know you were Dutch, Barba ...sorry.

I thought you were from the States.

Your soldiers sold out my beloved Bosnians I had trusted into their custody, but that is another story !

 

{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

67.       alameda
3499 posts
 20 Nov 2010 Sat 01:00 am

Barba, their famlies and friends are also alienated, so of course it filters down. I still stand by my assertion that the antisocial behaviour is rooted in being alienated.(out of sorts) When one is stressed one does not function at top level.

The parents of these poor kids are just trying to hold on, and let´s not forget, learning a language at an older age isn´t that easy at all, and for some it´s impossible. Of course, some basic "Tarzan" language should be possible, but communicating on a "Tarzan" level has it´s problems. Add to that, the shame that the youngsters have at seeing their parents in this degrading situation and we can see how the defensive behaviour results. Young people are very sensistive about most things, and for sure they feel the disdain with which their famlies are held, thus they over compensate with their youthful rebellious bravado.



Edited (11/20/2010) by alameda [add]

68.       alameda
3499 posts
 20 Nov 2010 Sat 01:02 am

Actually, it started a bit earlier than that...try Napoleon´s Declaration to the Jews....

Quoting amirak

 

Quoting lemon

"you too much exaggerate the role of Brits. Who are they against Zionists? Plus, Brits did everything to halt the return of Jews."

{#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}  u r the one who´s minimizing the role of the brits in establishing the basis of the zionist racist state of israHELL. it all started with the lord Belfour, when out of GENEROUSITY, he promised to offer the persecuted jews in europe  a home  on a land that never belonged to him.

 

 

69.       alameda
3499 posts
 20 Nov 2010 Sat 01:18 am

Regarding raparations....that has been a very hot issue in the USA regarding the former slaves, and in fact some Armenians have been extracting "reparations´ in Ca for some time regarding "genocide" under the Poochigian Law. That law has now been struck down. In fact reparations is a very much alive concept that has some real teeth.

Regarding your now backtracked statements....no I don´t think anyone can object to trying to accomodate themselves to whatever society they are in. The question is how much? You did say assimilation.....I think a better word would be accomodation. One would be very foolish, as I said previously, to not do all they can to learn to speak the lanugage of the place they are in, particularly if you have made that place your new home.

What is this obsessive fantasy you have regarding my hate of the USA, or Western culture? I actually love it where I am............as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I love to see the Indian ladies with their beautiful saris, the Ethiopians with their white flowing scarves.....it´s like a garden of beautiful flowers. I have no desire to live in Saudi Arabia, which you seem to be quite obsessed with. Nor did I ever say I admired that society.

There is good and bad in every place.

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

Reparations that you mention are a funny thing. They concern only deals signed between Germany and Israel for Holocaust. Colonisation was not Holocaust, was it? Besides, Germany did not pay to other countries that they invaded, eg Poland. So your argument is sort of weak here lol Just like Turkey didn´t pay to Greeks, Arabs to Spain etc.

For what I know, nobody in the evil west demands that immigrants forsake their language or religion. They just demand that they do not break the law and that they learn the language. Is that really too much to expect?

A perfect exaple of assimilation are Polish Tatars, they kept their religion but consider themselves Polish citizens - they serve in Polish army, go to school etc.

I feel very sorry for you, it must be tough to live in a country like the US. Country whose values you hate and you´d rather turn it into a country that hates personal freedom just like the Arab countries you love so much. I wonder what makes you liove in the US and not move to a country that is as tolerant of other cultures as SA (<-sarcasm). I guess after all it´s nice to praise other cultures as long as yo don´t have to live in them lol I reckon Google would be banned for you in the ideal country SA is. lol

 

 

70.       lemon
1374 posts
 20 Nov 2010 Sat 08:11 am

 

Quoting amirak

 

Quoting lemon

"you too much exaggerate the role of Brits. Who are they against Zionists? Plus, Brits did everything to halt the return of Jews."

{#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}  u r the one who´s minimizing the role of the brits in establishing the basis of the zionist racist state of israHELL. it all started with the lord Belfour, when out of GENEROUSITY, he promised to offer the persecuted jews in europe  a home  on a land that never belonged to him.

 

Balfour Declaration or Decoration as I call it was just a blank or bluff political action.

Mr Balfour together with British Empire was only a tool for Zionists to start the Return. Zionists pulled and still pull the muppet strings behind the scene.

I do not have to minimize anything, facts must be stated. It is only on official history pages that Brits are the heroic founders of Israel. In fact their establishment of Israel is backed up by only empty words on paper and their actions were in practice against Jews.

Who today knows of British concentrated camps for Jews on the shores of Palestine? Nobody!

Please, do not use this emoticon {#emotions_dlg.you_crazy}. Control your emotions.

 

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