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For daydreamer
1.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 01 Dec 2010 Wed 01:45 pm

The year was 1900

".....The British who occupied Istanbul searched for evidence against the Turkish military and civilian officials they exiled to the island of Malta for 30 months but had to release them when they could not find anything of importance against them. On the other hand, Armenian officials were stressing the fact that they had fought in the ranks of the allied powers and were officially a party to the war so long as they kept the hope of establishing an Armenian State on the Ottoman territory as foreseen in the Treaty of Sevres. However, when the Treaty of Sevres was abrogated they held on to the Armenian Genocide as made up by the Western States. During the 10 years (1979-1989), I served as Ambassador in Washington the activities of the Armenian lobbly to pass a bill from the US Congress accusing Turkey of Armenian Genocide continued incessantly. As a result of these efforts and with the strong support of the Greek lobby, Armenians were able to bring a bill to the floor of the General Council of the House of Representatives. However, in both cases where heated discussions took place the bills were rejected. The rejection of these claims which are seen as undisputed facts by the Armenian lobby, their supporters and a majority of the Americans angered the Armenian circles. Not knowing what to do they wanted to declare the Turkish Ambassador as ´persona non grata´. Deputy Speaker Tony Coelho presented a draft law to the House of Representatives with the signature of 60 deputies with that purpose. This attempt failed. However, the interesting point is that, the incident which led President Wilson to declare Ottoman Ambassador Ahmet Rustem Bey as ´persona non grata´ on 19 September 1914 was also concerned with the Armenian claims. In an article he sent to the ´Washington Star´ Rustem Bey had replied that the American Press had defamated the Ottoman Empire with the groundless claims of oppression on the Armenians and other Christian subjects and that Washington had to learn how to treat the blacks humanely......."

 

dd, do you have any idea who Ahmet Rustem Bey, the Ottoman Ambassador to USA in 1900 was ?

2.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 01 Dec 2010 Wed 01:58 pm

I just googled the guy and found he was of Polish origin. I know Turkey gave home to lots of Polish nobles and army men during the period when Poland was wiped of fromt he world´s maps (to regain independence in 1918). Many people who wanted to fight back then had to flee the land partitioned by Russia, Austo-Hungary and Prussia, some of them got to Turkey and fought in their army. Some became Pashas. In Polonezkoy you can see monuments and some original settlements. Also, our greatest poet, Adam Mickiewicz, died in Istanbul. The below is a quote from Wiki:

"Adam Mickiewicz Museum (Polish: Muzeum Adama Mickiewicza, Turkish: Adam Mickiewicz Müzesi) is a museum dedicated to the life of Adam Mickiewicz, renowned Polish poet. It is located in the district of Beyoğlu, on the European side of Istanbul, Turkey.

It is located in a house where Adam Mickiewicz lived and died. Mickiewicz came to Turkey in September 1855 to help organize Polish forces under the Ottoman Army. He befriended Michał Czajkowski (Sadık Paşa) who commanded the Polish forces there. Mickiewicz died from illness on 26 November 1855."

I´ve heard that the museum is no longer open as Polish government found no point in maintaining it. Well, that´s what happenss when money takes over reason...

3.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 01 Dec 2010 Wed 02:44 pm

You are getting there...I am sad you had to google Ahmet Rustem Bey. He was a great guy in many aspects; deserves to be well known by all Turks and Poles.

Did you know he actually fought duels, with people that he found insulting to Turkish honor. He was first an Ottoman Ambassador  to USA - never took any bulshit from Americans - then a close friend of Ataturk right through the Turkish War of Independence.

 

4.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 01 Dec 2010 Wed 04:27 pm

We don´t spend much time learning about the foundations of Turkish republic at schools, probably because that was a pretty eventful period in our history as well as European one. And what I remember from history classes about the Ottoman Empire is not much either. Just that we, Poles, stopped the invasion of Europe at Vienna. Not very surprising that we´re taught history from this angle haha. But we do learn that Turkey was the only country that did not recognise partitions of Poland.

We´re probably too far apart georgraphically now to have a contemporary history, the only thing that comes to my mind is Polish trips to Turkey during the 1980s to buy leather, gold and these funny sweaters every second Pole wore back then

5.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 01 Dec 2010 Wed 06:25 pm

Ties between Poles and Turks are much deeper than that daydreamer.

In 1795 Austria, Russia and Prussia divided Poland into 3; a state of Poland was no more in existence. The Ottomans never agreed with nor accepted this division of Poland. Starting from 1795 and  until Poland regained her independence (~200 years) a very peculiar rituel was conducted in every meeting of the Ottoman Sultan with European Ambassadors. Sultan would be slightly late for the meeting; on his arrival he would immediately ask (in a low voice but clearly audible by all others) to his Grand Vizier "Has the Polish Ambassoador arrived yet?". The answer would be (again in a low but audible tone) "He will arrive Your Highness..There were some minor problems on the way". Ottoman Sultan having thus expressed his dissatisfaction of Poland´s situation to the other European Ambassadors,  the meeting would commence on its natural course.

Poland is the first country to recognize the Turkish Republic after the Turkish War of Independence. Poland recognized the new republic 1 full day before the Lausanne Treaty was signed.

 



Edited (12/1/2010) by AlphaF

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6.       mltm
3690 posts
 04 Dec 2010 Sat 11:11 pm

He wrote a book in french called "la guerre mondiale et la question turco-armenienne", (the world war and the turco-armeninan question). I found the book in its original form online:

http://www.archive.org/stream/laguerremondiale00ahmeuoft#page/n9/mode/2up

It´s free, super. I started to read it. 



Edited (12/4/2010) by mltm

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