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-den/-dan-Ablative suffix
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10.       tunci
7149 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 09:26 pm

 

Quoting Mavili

 

 

Thank you Gokuyum, Deli and Si+{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} so used in my example,

"birşey söylemeden" = "something without telling"

If this is part of adverbial clauses, do thy follow vowel harmony or no? Or is there -madan for a, ı, o, u ?

örn

sormeden= without asking

paylaşmeden=without sharing

 

 sormadan

paylaşmadan

 

they follow vowel harmony.

sarılmadan ---> ı ---> a       [ without hugging]

korumadan ---> u ---> a     [ without protecting]

koşmadan -----> o ---> a    [ without running ]

 

 



Edited (9/24/2011) by tunci

11.       Mavili
236 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 09:35 pm

thanks Tunci. I was not sure because the Adverbial clause lesson on this site does not mention that they follow VH. But I know they do now.

12.       tunci
7149 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 09:46 pm

 

Rica ederim Mavili.. Well, there is only two option in this case ;

meden ---> e, i ,ü , ö ----> e

madan ----> a, ı, u, o ----> a

so we better call it "special harmony "  in it

 

13.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 24 Sep 2011 Sat 11:58 pm

 

Quoting Mavili

 

 

Thank you Gokuyum, Deli and Si+{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} so used in my example,

"birşey söylemeden" = "something without telling"

If this is part of adverbial clauses, do thy follow vowel harmony or no? Or is there -madan for a, ı, o, u ?

örn

sormeden= without asking

paylaşmeden=without sharing

 

bir şey söylemeden lets analise this

 

bir is adjective

şey is noun

bir şey is adjective phrase

söyle(mek) to say

meden is without

söylemeden is adverb

 

This adverb also has an indefinite object. It is "bir şey".

So "bir şey söylemeden" means "without saying anything".

 

Hindistan liked this message
14.       Mavili
236 posts
 25 Sep 2011 Sun 02:43 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

bir şey söylemeden lets analise this

 

bir is adjective

şey is noun

bir şey is adjective phrase

söyle(mek) to say

meden is without

söylemeden is adverb

 

This adverb also has an indefinite object. It is "bir şey".

So "bir şey söylemeden" means "without saying anything".

 

 

Thank you Gokuyum! Very detailed explanation, which I usually need. 

Can I ask about another part in this exercise? How about when there is an adjective but appears to be given an aorist tense? -er/-ar

In the little story its used this way;

"Az sonra onlara birer tabak sıcak su ikram eder."

Edit; And I had been thinking that I could start figuring out how to translate in case one day I want to read a storybook thats in Turkish. 



Edited (9/25/2011) by Mavili
Edited (9/25/2011) by Mavili

15.       Henry
2604 posts
 25 Sep 2011 Sun 03:03 am

 

Quoting Mavili

 

 

Thank you Gokuyum! Very detailed explanation, which I usually need. 

Can I ask about another part in this exercise? How about when there is an adjective but appears to be given an aorist tense? -er/-ar

In the little story its used this way;

"Az sonra onlara birer tabak sıcak su ikram eder."

Edit; And I had been thinking that I could start figuring out how to translate in case one day I want to read a storybook thats in Turkish. 

 

The word ´birer´ has nothing to do with aorist tense.

birer means ´one at a time, one each

birer birer means ´one by one´

ikişer means ´two each, two apiece´

ikişer ikişer means ´two by two, in pairs´

16.       Mavili
236 posts
 25 Sep 2011 Sun 03:33 am

thanks Henry, Ok I will have to remember that. Guess I should have figured that tense isn´t added to "bir" {#emotions_dlg.angel} That and make sure to check words that Im not sure of to see if they are words with a suffix or already true as they are.

17.       Mavili
236 posts
 23 Oct 2011 Sun 05:21 am

I was not able to find where more of the previous story is, from the internet. But I have started other children´s stories to try and translate during my free time

I know this story (Pinocchio) in Turkish is maybe a little advanced for me but I wanted to give it a try of course! Though alot of it has been little easy, so far, I have already come across one sentence that uses words that I can´t figure out in what context they are being used.

"İhtiyar oyuncakçının hayatta üzüldügü tek şey bir çocuğunun olmamasıymış."

About üzüldüğu, I know it has to with -dik, that makes verbs into adjectives. But I am not sure what tense is after it so is it worried or worries. 

Id also like to find other kinds of short stories so that its not just -miş tense {#emotions_dlg.lol_fast}

 

 



Edited (10/23/2011) by Mavili

18.       Abla
3648 posts
 23 Oct 2011 Sun 09:23 am

"İhtiyar oyuncakçının hayatta üzüldüğü tek şey bir çocuğunun olmamasıymış."

´The only thing (tek şey) in the old toy maker´s life (ihtiyar oyuncakçının hayatta) that made him sad (üzüldüğü) was that he didn´t have a child (bir çocuğunun olmamasıymış)

The -dik- participle doesn´t have a tense of its own. The tense is written in the predicate verb, in this case ol|ma|ma|sı|ymış = verb stem + negation + infinitive marker + possessive suffix sg 3rd + inferential tense marker (imiş). The inferential (which is also called the -miş-past) is often used in stories instead of -di-past. It´s a past anyway. So, the answer to your question is that üzüldüğü, adapting itself to the tense of the predicate verb also  refers to the past.

Mavili liked this message
19.       Mavili
236 posts
 24 Oct 2011 Mon 03:05 am

Thank you Abla for the complete explanation. I couldn´t tell how to break down -olmamasıymış. But I see now how but I never would have figured it to be "he didn´t have" because of the combination of Olmak and the 3rd person possesive -si, unless someone told me. I hope I can get more exposure to that combination to be more familiar with it. 

And I know that -miş is used for stories and fairy tales but I hope soon I can do other kinds of so ı can practice with -di simple past also.Smile

20.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Oct 2011 Tue 10:20 am

I found a nice site which you might like, Mavili: http://www.herkesemasal.com.      

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