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the - man [-men] suffix in Turkish
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1.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Sep 2011 Mon 03:06 pm

 

This suffix -man [-men] makes some verbs nouns. [note ; not all verbs, some verbs ! ]

The Formula is ;

 Verb stem + man [men] according to vowel harmony

Danışmak --->  To counsult, to advice   ----  Danışman --->  Consultant, adviser

Öğretmek ---> To teach   ------  Öğretmen ---> Teacher

Eğitmek  -----> To educate  ----  Eğitmen  -----> Educater

Göçmek  ------> To immigrate ---> Göçmen  ---> Immigrant

Seçmek -------> To choose, to elect,to vote -----> Seçmen ----> Voter [in elections]

Yönetmek ------> To manage, to direct  ------> Yönetmen  ----->  Director [ in films]

Şişmek  ---------> To swell, to get fat    ------>  Şişman -------->  Fat

Saymak ---------->  To count -------> Sayman -----> Accountant

 

 

 

 

 

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2.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Sep 2011 Mon 09:40 pm

 

The Suffix " -cık [ -cik, -cuk, cük ]

 

1. when it is put in the end of nouns it gives the meaning of " affection, compassion , diminutive suffix "

 

ev [ house ] -------> evcik  ------> little house

kedi [cat] ----------> kedicik ------> little cat, poor cat.

kuş [bird] ----------> kuşçuk -------> little bird, poor bid

Ali ---------------> Alicik ---------> little Ali, poor Ali

 

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3.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Sep 2011 Mon 10:06 pm

 

2. when the Suffix " -cık [ -cik, -cuk, cük ] comes to the end of Some adjectives ,it strengthens their [adjectives] meanings.

 

Az [little,less] ---> Azıcık ----> Very little

Mini [ small, short ] --> Minicik ---> Very small, very short

Sıcak [ Hot ] --------> Sıcacık ---> Very hot

Yumuşak [Soft] -------> Yumuşacık ---> Very soft

Dar [ Narrow ] ---------> Daracık ------> Very narrow

 

 

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4.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Sep 2011 Mon 10:20 pm

 

3. The Suffix " -cık [ -cik, -cuk, cük ] is used to adress people when its used with possessive suffix.

 

Babacığım ----> My dear Father

Anneciğim ------> My dear Mother

Ablacığım --------> My dear sister [older sister]

Amcacığım --------> My dear uncle [father´s side]

Dayıcığım ----------> My dear uncle [mother´s side]

Ayşeciğim ----------> My dear Ayşe

Nurcuğum -----------> My dear Nur

 

 

 

 



Edited (9/26/2011) by tunci

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5.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Sep 2011 Mon 10:26 pm

 

4. The Suffix " -cık [ -cik, -cuk, cük ] also makes some nouns " the place " name.

 

Ovacık

Germencik

Ayvacık

Saraycık

Yakacık

Tepecik

 

 

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6.       tunci
7149 posts
 26 Sep 2011 Mon 11:55 pm

 

The suffix " -daş [-deş ]

 

Some nouns take this suffix and it changes their meaning into "togetherness, equality "

 

Ad [name] -----> Adaş [ one with the same name as other, namesake ]

 

Karın [ Tummy,womb] ----> [Karındaş] Kardeş ---> One who comes from same tummy [womb] [ sibling]

 

Çağ [ era ] + daş  ---> Çağdaş [ Contemporary,modern]

 

Meslek [ profession ] + taş ["d" turns into "t" ] ----> Meslektaş ---> Collegaue

 

Soy [race]  ----> Soydaş ---> A person who comes from same ancestor.

 

Vatan [ country ]  ---> Vatandaş ----> Countryman, Citizen.

 

Yol [ road ] ---> Yoldaş ----> Companion, Comrade

 

 

 

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7.       Abla
3648 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 09:20 am

Hello, tunci, nice new thread. The transparency of Turkish words is amazing and it´s good you explain it to us learners.

It also rises up a rhetoric question. As in Turkish (and in other agglutivative languages) many words are produced from the same stems, is it that in these languages the grammar book is thicker and the dictionary book is thinner than in English, for instance?

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8.       Hindistan
246 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 12:20 pm

You are a hero teacher tunci...you constantly think what could help learners...

Thanks a ton for your effort.....{#emotions_dlg.flowers}

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9.       tunci
7149 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 12:25 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Hello, tunci, nice new thread. The transparency of Turkish words is amazing and it´s good you explain it to us learners.

It also rises up a rhetoric question. As in Turkish (and in other agglutivative languages) many words are produced from the same stems, is it that in these languages the grammar book is thicker and the dictionary book is thinner than in English, for instance?

 

 Hello Abla, thats a very good question. I never thought that question before. In my opinion Most Turkish words are open to develop and transform into new words by adding suffixes. We need to look at the historical development of Turkish language , In Ottoman times unfortunately Turkish was neglected and influenced by other languages [ Arabic, Farisi] but since M.Kemal Ataturk brought reforms and purification into Turkish it restarted improving. So , new words were added into Turkish dictionary. In my opinion that purification should continue as long as Turkish people adapt them into daily life.

Example ;

Yön ---> way, direction

Yönet ---> To give direction, to direct

Yönetici ---> Director

Yönlendirmek ---> To guide,to lead

Yönetim ---> Management, administration

Yöntem ----> Method, the way

Yönelik ------> intended, aimed at

Yönetmelik ---> regulations

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10.       si++
3785 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 02:57 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

This suffix -man [-men] makes some verbs nouns. [note ; not all verbs, some verbs ! ]

The Formula is ;

 Verb stem + man [men] according to vowel harmony

Danışmak --->  To counsult, to advice   ----  Danışman --->  Consultant, adviser

Öğretmek ---> To teach   ------  Öğretmen ---> Teacher

Eğitmek  -----> To educate  ----  Eğitmen  -----> Educater

Göçmek  ------> To immigrate ---> Göçmen  ---> Immigrant

Seçmek -------> To choose, to elect,to vote -----> Seçmen ----> Voter [in elections]

Yönetmek ------> To manage, to direct  ------> Yönetmen  ----->  Director [ in films]

Şişmek  ---------> To swell, to get fat    ------>  Şişman -------->  Fat

Saymak ---------->  To count -------> Sayman -----> Accountant

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except for şişman, these are new inventions as a result of language reform. But it´s actually an effort of imitating English -man suffix.

snowman, showman, salesman etc.

 

As for şişman, it may be another suffix for noun stems.

şiş-man

deliş-men

köle-men

koca-man

Türk-men

ata-man

etc.

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11.       tunci
7149 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 03:36 pm

 

The Suffix -MSI [-ımsı, -imsi, -umsu, ümsü ]

 

This suffix comes especially to the end of colors and gives them the meaning of  "likeness"

  

beyaz [white ] ----> beyazımsı [whitesh]

kırmızı [ red ] ------> kırmızımsı [ reddish ]

sarı   [yellow ] -----> sarımsı [ yellowish ]

siyah [black] -------> siyahımsı [ blackish ]

pembe [ pink ] ------> pembemsi [ pinky,pinkish]

yeşil [green] --------> yeşilimsi [greenish ]

mor [ purple ] -------> morumsu [ purpleish]

mavi [blue] ----------> mavimsi [ blueish ]

 

* The suffix -msı also comes to some other words to give them "likeness " "littleness " such as ;

acı [bitter,hot] -----> acımsı [ bitterish , bit bitter ]

tatlı [sweet] --------> tatlımsı [ sweetish , bit sweet ]

ekşi [sour] -----------> ekşimsi [ sourish ]

 

 

 

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12.       tunci
7149 posts
 27 Sep 2011 Tue 10:06 pm

 

The suffix " leyin "

This suffix doesnt follow vowel harmony. It creates time adverbs from nouns.

Note ; this suffix doesnt apply for all time words [month,week..] !

 

Sabah [morning] ----> Sabahleyin [ in the morning ]

Öğlen [afternoon] ----> Öğlenleyin [ in the afternoon, at noon]

Akşam [ evening ] ----> Akşamleyin [ in the evening ]

Gece [ night ] ------> Geceleyin [ in the night , at night ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 12:21 pm

 

The suffix -k [-ak,-ek]

This suffix turn many verbs into noun and adjective  forms.

FORMULA ;

VERB STEM + -k [-ak,-ek]

 

Korkmak = to fear -----> Korkak ----> coward

Dilemek = to wish -----> Dilek -------> wish

Kapamak = to close ----> Kapak -----> lid, cover

Yatmak = to sleep ------> Yatak -----> bed

 

 

 

 



Edited (9/29/2011) by tunci
Edited (9/29/2011) by tunci

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14.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 01:07 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

The suffix -k [-ak,-ek]

This suffix turn many verbs into noun and adjective  forms.

FORMULA ;

VERB STEM + -k [-ak,-ek]

 

Korkmak = to fear -----> Korkak ----> coward

Dilemek = to wish -----> Dilek -------> wish

Kapamak = to close ----> Kapak -----> lid, cover

Yatmak = to sleep ------> Yatak -----> bed

 

 

 

 

 

-k and -ak/-ek are not the same suffix.

 

For example:

 

Dilek: Dile-k

 

and

 

Yatak: yat-ak

Yatık: yat-ık

15.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 01:13 pm

 

Bileşik zamanlı formlar ve "ol" yardımcı fiili ;

[ Compound tense forms and the auxiliary "ol-" ]

 

Git   -    miş                  ol -  acağ  -   ız      ---> Gitmiş olacağız

Go   - informed past   be - Future  - person [we]

We   will   have gone

 

 ****************************************

 

Dinlen  -- iyor                   ol  -- malı  --- sınız   ---> Dinleniyor olmalısınız.

Rest   -- Cont.Tense      be -- neces. -- you [plural]

You must be resting.

 

****************************************

 

Bitir ---- miş                   ol ---- ur -------    sun  ------> Bitirmiş olursun.

Finish -- informed past     be ---Aorist tense-- Person [you]

You´ll have finished.

 

 

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16.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 01:23 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

-k and -ak/-ek are not the same suffix.

 

For example:

 

Dilek: Dile-k

 

and

 

Yatak: yat-ak

Yatık: yat-ık

 

 -k comes when the verb stem ends with vowel [ Dile + k ]

-ak,ek comes when the verb stem ends with consonant [ Yat + ak, dön + ek ]

therefore they are same.

the suffixes "ık,ik,uk,ük "  are bit different, they make verb stem into more like adjectives.

 

17.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 01:42 pm

 

the suffixes "ık,ik,uk,ük "  make verb stems into more like adjectives

 

bitmek = to finish    ----> bitik [exhausted,worn out]

yanmak = to burn   -----> yanık [ burnt ]

solmak = to fade  ------> soluk [ faded,pale ]

 

 

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18.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 01:52 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 -k comes when the verb stem ends with vowel [ Dile + k ]

-ak,ek comes when the verb stem ends with consonant [ Yat + ak, dön + ek ]

therefore they are same.

the suffixes "ık,ik,uk,ük "  are bit different, they make verb stem into more like adjectives.

 

 

Nope! Nope! Nope!

 

Check a grammar book. Or if you say you have a grammar book and if it is telling what you say. Tell us its name. I´m curious.

 

My grammar book lists -ek and -(i)k separately.

 

They are not the same suffixes.

19.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:06 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

Nope! Nope! Nope!

 

Check a grammar book. Or if you say you have a grammar book and if it is telling what you say. Tell us its name. I´m curious.

 

My grammar book lists -ek and -(i)k separately.

 

They are not the same suffixes.

 

 Yep ! Yep ! Yep !

we are saying the same things...of course  -[e]k and [i]k, [ı]k, [u]k, [ü]k are listed seperately however -k [-[a]k,-[e]k] are same in that respect [its all to do with verb stem ending with vowel or consonant ]

 



Edited (9/29/2011) by tunci

20.       Mavili
236 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:25 pm

Loving this break down of common suffixesSmile I also am glad you think of helpful topics like this. I will be refering back to it alot I am sure. Could I request something as well? If you think its relavent, will you also explain the suffixes -erak/-arak which have to do with "gerunds of state" or something. Pretty please?{#emotions_dlg.angel}

21.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:31 pm

 

The suffix -gan [-gen,-kan,-ken ]

This suffix make some verbs adjectives.

FORMULA ;

VERB STEM +  -gan [-gen,-kan,-ken ]

 

saldırmak = to attack -----> saldırgan [agressive, offensive]

sürünmek = to creep, to crawl ----> sürüngen [ reptant,creepy ]

iletmek = to pass ----> iletken [ conductive ]

yapışmak = to stick, to adhere ----> yapışkan [sticky,adhesive ]

 

 

 

 

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22.       Hindistan
246 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:33 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

The suffix -k [-ak,-ek]

This suffix turn many verbs into noun and adjective  forms.

FORMULA ;

VERB STEM + -k [-ak,-ek]

 

Korkmak = to fear -----> Korkak ----> coward

Dilemek = to wish -----> Dilek -------> wish

Kapamak = to close ----> Kapak -----> lid, cover

Yatmak = to sleep ------> Yatak -----> bed

 

 

 

 

 

Is it applicable to all verbs???

23.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:34 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Yep ! Yep ! Yep !

we are saying the same things...of course  -[e]k and [i]k, [ı]k, [u]k, [ü]k are listed seperately however -k [-[a]k,-[e]k] are same in that respect [its all to do with verb stem ending with vowel or consonant ] OK then tell me your source. I have no such description in my book.I have a feeling that you tell it without checking anywhere.

 

 

Nope! Nope! Nope!


The -(i)k suffix in dile-k is not -ek suffix but the same suffix as in:

kes-ik

del-ik

yörü-k

büyü-k

tanı-k

san-ık

iste-k

dene-k

 

 

24.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:37 pm

 

Quoting Hindistan

 

 

Is it applicable to all verbs???

 

 No, It is not applicable to all verbs.{#emotions_dlg.sad} [unfortunately]

 

25.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:47 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

Nope! Nope! Nope!


The -(i)k suffix in dile-k is not -ek suffix but the same suffix as in:

kes-ik

del-ik

yörü-k

büyü-k

tanı-k

san-ık

iste-k

dene-k

 

 

 

 I am not relying on one grammer book as you do. Seems like you are mixing apples with pears. Its quite simple , I am suprised that you are having trouble understanding it.

 

Dilemek = to wish

Dile [verb stem]

Dile + k [wish]----> only -k comes because the stem verb ends with VOWEL !

thats so simple..

note that I am not adding -ke , i am adding only -k !

 

 

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26.       Hindistan
246 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:57 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 No, It is not applicable to all verbs.{#emotions_dlg.sad} [unfortunately]

 

 

So, how would we decide a particular verb if we want to use this formula??? 

27.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 02:58 pm

 

Now I know why are you so stubborn on your claim Si++, its because I mishighlighted the suffixes ; the right way should be as follows ;

 

Korkmak = to fear -----> Kork-ak ----> coward

Dilemek = to wish -----> Dile-k -------> wish

Kapamak = to close ----> Kapa-k -----> lid, cover

Yatmak = to sleep ------> Yat-ak -----> bed

this will end the debate i guess..you cant be still oppose ?

 

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28.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 03:01 pm

 

Quoting Hindistan

 

 

So, how would we decide a particular verb if we want to use this formula??? 

 

 You will just know the particular ones Hindistan..sorry..there is no rule to decide which ones will take this suffix..{#emotions_dlg.sad}

29.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 05:54 pm

 

Quoting Mavili

Loving this break down of common suffixesSmile I also am glad you think of helpful topics like this. I will be refering back to it alot I am sure. Could I request something as well? If you think its relavent, will you also explain the suffixes -erak/-arak which have to do with "gerunds of state" or something. Pretty please?{#emotions_dlg.angel}

 

 GERUNDS OF STATE [ DURUM ULAÇLARI] --> - [y] arak , - [y] erek

it gives the meaning like "by doing ", with doing "

FORMULA IS ;

VERB STEM + [y--> if needed] + ARAK or EREK [takes one of these according to the last vowel of the word stem ]

GÜL        +   EREK ---> Gülerek [ by smiling ]

  

Ağlayarak eve gitti ----->He/she went home [by] crying ---> As you see, this suffix explains the state  of act , how did he /she go home ? By crying

Gülerek cevap verdi bana ---->

by smiling + answer + gave + to me -----> He/she has given me answer by smiling

 

Müzik dinleyerek ders çalışırım.----> I study by listening to music.

 

Bahçede konuşarak yürüyorlardı ---> They were walking by talking in the garden.

Zevk alarak Türkçe öğreniyoruz ----> We are learning Turkish by enjoying [it]

Kitap okuyarak dinleniyor -----> He is relaxing by reading book.

 

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30.       Abla
3648 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 08:17 pm

Quote:Hindistan

So, how would we decide a particular verb if we want to use this formula???

We can´t. That´s the difference between conjugating existing stems and deriving new ones from them. You can add for instance the dative ending to any noun but rules about deriving are only guidelines. The use of this knowledge is that when we see a long exhausting word we can try to split it into pieces and then guess what it might mean.

 

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31.       Benmora
1 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 08:58 pm

Merhaba Tunci,

 

I am a new student of Turkish, and after seeing your postings I noticed that you are being a huge contributor to this internet site, I thank you for taking the time and post all these explanations and examples. We need more people like you.

Thank you again my friend,

 

Bernardo

32.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 09:07 pm

 

Quoting Benmora

Merhaba Tunci,

 

I am a new student of Turkish, and after seeing your postings I noticed that you are being a huge contributor to this internet site, I thank you for taking the time and post all these explanations and examples. We need more people like you.

Thank you again my friend,

 

Bernardo

 

 Estağfurullah Benmora. I am doing nothing. There are many good teachers in this site that are better than me. They all helping learners constantly..Hoşgeldin Türkçeye [ Welcome into Turkish ! Smile ] Good luck ! [iyi şanslar ! ]

 

33.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 09:37 pm

 

GERUNDS OF CONJUNCTION   -IP, -İP, -UP, ÜP

 

This connects one verb into another by adding -IP, -İP, -UP, ÜP into stem of first verb.

  

FORMULA IS ;

VERB STEM         +        -IP, -İP, -UP, ÜP     +  NEXT CLAUSE

  

İşten çıktı ve eve gitti.  =  İşten çıkıp eve gitti. = He/she left work and went home.

 

Her sabah erken kalkarım ve koşarım = Her sabah erken kalkıp koşarım = Every morning I get up early and run.

 

Ali arabaya bindi ve gitti = Ali arabaya binip gitti = Ali got in the car and went [drove off ]

 

Ahmet beni gördü ve selam verdi = Ahmet beni görüp selam verdi = Ahmet saw me and greeted me.

 

Sustu ve sandalyeye oturdu  =  Susup sandalyeye oturdu. = He/she got quiet and sat on the chair.

 

 



Edited (9/29/2011) by tunci [typing error]

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34.       scalpel
1472 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 10:10 pm

I don´t know the grammar books (for the suffixes) you two use, but mine is Türk Dil Bilgisi by Prof.Dr.Muharrem Ergin which is the top reference book for Turkish suffixes.

-k, -k and -ak, -ek are different suffixes (page 188)

268. -k, -k

saç.ı.k, kaç.ı.k, kon.u.k, yat.ı.k

269. -ak, -ek

saç.ak, kaç.ak, kon.ak, yat.ak 

Examples are chosen (by me Wink  from the same verb roots to make the difference clear:

saçık and saçak

kaçık and kaçak

konuk and konak

yatık and yatak have different meanings. 

 

The following part is for si++ and tunci...that´s why it´s in Turkish...sorry for the learners..

-k,-k (yaptığı isimler umumiyetle fiilin gösterdiği harekete uğramış olan, bazan da o hareketten doğmuş bulunan veya  hareketi yapan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

-ak, -ek ( yaptığı isimler fiilin gösterdiği hareketi çokça yapanı,olanı, yapılanı; o hareketin yapıldığı yeri, âleti; o hareketle yapılan şeyi; hasılı fiilin tesirinde kalan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

 

Hope this help both of you Wink

 

 

35.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Sep 2011 Thu 11:35 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

I don´t know the grammar books (for the suffixes) you two use, but mine is Türk Dil Bilgisi by Prof.Dr.Muharrem Ergin which is the top reference book for Turkish suffixes.

-k, -k and -ak, -ek are different suffixes (page 188)

268. -k, -k

saç.ı.k, kaç.ı.k, kon.u.k, yat.ı.k

269. -ak, -ek

saç.ak, kaç.ak, kon.ak, yat.ak 

Examples are chosen (by me Wink  from the same verb roots to make the difference clear:

saçık and saçak

kaçık and kaçak

konuk and konak

yatık and yatak have different meanings. 

 

The following part is for si++ and tunci...that´s why it´s in Turkish...sorry for the learners..

-k,-k (yaptığı isimler umumiyetle fiilin gösterdiği harekete uğramış olan, bazan da o hareketten doğmuş bulunan veya  hareketi yapan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

-ak, -ek ( yaptığı isimler fiilin gösterdiği hareketi çokça yapanı,olanı, yapılanı; o hareketin yapıldığı yeri, âleti; o hareketle yapılan şeyi; hasılı fiilin tesirinde kalan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

 

Hope this help both of you Wink

 

 

 

 Thanks for your adding into discussion Scalpel. Actually we are all saying same things.

-k,-k (yaptığı isimler umumiyetle fiilin gösterdiği harekete uğramış olan, bazan da o hareketten doğmuş bulunan veya  hareketi yapan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

-ak, -ek ( yaptığı isimler fiilin gösterdiği hareketi çokça yapanı,olanı, yapılanı; o hareketin yapıldığı yeri, âleti; o hareketle yapılan şeyi; hasılı fiilin tesirinde kalan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

1. -k,-k and -ak, -ek  are transforming verbs into nouns [same function]

2. Of course ık,ik,uk,ük are different suffixes.

 

Same example ; dile + k --> wish

                      kür + ek --> shovel

kürümek = to shovel [note ; ü drops ] --> kür + ek

so they both transform verbs into noun although they are different nouns [ 1. Fiilin gösterdiği harekete uğramış isim, 2. Alet ismi ]

 

 

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36.       tunci
7149 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 12:35 am

 

 THE SUFFIX  -MAKTA [ -MEKTE ]

 

This is imperfective suffix [bitmemiş ] that is mostly used in formal contexts.

FORMULA IS ;

VERB STEM + -MAKTA or -MEKTE + TENSE [IF THERE IS ] +PERSONAL SUFFIX

GöR            +   mekte             +   sin

görmektesin --> You are [ in the process of ] seeing.

 

bitirmekteydim ---> I was [ in the process of ] finishing.

bitir [verb stem] + mekte + y [buffering letter] + di [past tense] + m [person "I" ]

 

* It can also be followed by -DIR when the person is in the 3rd person singular or plural form.

 

Gelmektedirler ---> They are [ in the process of ] coming

Görülmemektedir ----> It is not seen / observed  [negative form]

 

Moha-ios liked this message
37.       tunci
7149 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 01:01 am

 

THE OPTATIVE SUFFIX -[y]A  ----> Dilek bildiren ek

 

The optative suffix comes mostly into the 1.person singular and plural forms ;

 

gideyim ---> Let me go   ---> git + e + lim

okuyalım --> Let´s read   ----> oku + [y]a + lım

elim -----> Let´s drink  -----> iç + e + lim

 

* [y]a may also be followed by [y] Dı  or [y]mış

Gideydim ---> If I had gone  [ Oraya gideydim görürdün ---> If I had gone there ,you would see ]

*Note : [y]a  is an informal alternative to the conditional suffix -sA

 

 

 

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38.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 01:43 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Thanks for your adding into discussion Scalpel. Actually we are all saying same things.

No, we are not saying the same thing.

-k,-k (yaptığı isimler umumiyetle fiilin gösterdiği harekete uğramış olan, bazan da o hareketten doğmuş bulunan veya  hareketi yapan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

-ak, -ek ( yaptığı isimler fiilin gösterdiği hareketi çokça yapanı,olanı, yapılanı; o hareketin yapıldığı yeri, âleti; o hareketle yapılan şeyi; hasılı fiilin tesirinde kalan çeşitli nesneleri karşılar)

1. -k,-k and -ak, -ek  are transforming verbs into nouns [same function]

There are 42 suffixes with the same function: verb=>noun. So what´s your point? As I mentioned in my previous post, grammar books of the highest level, believe or not, says they are different suffixes...

2. Of course ık,ik,uk,ük are different suffixes.

there is no suffix as -ık, -ik,-uk,-ük in the list of 42 suffixes which are used to make noun from verb, sorry..

yan.ı.k, çek.i.k, buruş.u.k, sön.ü.k

ı,i,u and ü are helping vowels in Western Turkish.

In old Anatolian Turkish there were -uk, -ük as in examples aç.uk, del.ük, but in modern Turkish they are aç.ı.k, del.i.k

Same example ; dile + k --> wish

                      kür + ek --> shovel

kürümek = to shovel [note ; ü drops ] --> kür + ek

so they both transform verbs into noun although they are different nouns [ 1. Fiilin gösterdiği harekete uğramış isim, 2. Alet ismi ]

Yes, as both ´transform verbs into noun´, they are in the same category, but they are different suffixes (as I said million times before) and listed independently in grammar books. 

 

 

 

 

39.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 01:56 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

This suffix -man [-men] makes some verbs nouns. [note ; not all verbs, some verbs ! ]

The Formula is ;

 Verb stem + man [men] according to vowel harmony

Danışmak --->  To counsult, to advice   ----  Danışman --->  Consultant, adviser

Öğretmek ---> To teach   ------  Öğretmen ---> Teacher

Eğitmek  -----> To educate  ----  Eğitmen  -----> Educater

Göçmek  ------> To immigrate ---> Göçmen  ---> Immigrant

Seçmek -------> To choose, to elect,to vote -----> Seçmen ----> Voter [in elections]

Yönetmek ------> To manage, to direct  ------> Yönetmen  ----->  Director [ in films]

Şişmek  ---------> To swell, to get fat    ------>  Şişman -------->  Fat

Saymak ---------->  To count -------> Sayman -----> Accountant

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quoting si++

Except for şişman, (and göçmen) these are new inventions as a result of language reform. But it´s actually an effort of imitating English -man suffix.

snowman, showman, salesman etc.

 

 

As for şişman (and göçmen), it may be another suffix for noun stems.

şiş-man

deliş-men (deliş in delişmen is not that noun made by adding -iş to the verb root del-, ( del- drill, deliş -drilling) and you should remove it from this list.)

köle-men

koca-man

Türk-men

ata-man

etc.

-man, -men is found in some nouns made from nouns, and the suffix indicates exagerration and similarity:

(as in the examples:koca.man, kara.man, küçü.men)

It is also found in some nouns made from verbs:

(as in the examples: az.man, deliş.men, öğret.men, say.man, seç.men ) 

If I am not wrong si++ claims -man, -men is imitation of English man when used to make nouns from verbs, because of some new words as öğret.men (teach.man), say.man (count.man), seç.men (vote.man) 

This is a funny theory

It is 100% Turkish when used to form nouns from nouns, right? So why it should be English when used to form nouns from verbs?

 

40.       Mavili
236 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 06:19 am

I just had a thought about this. Interesting about how we can now see how many Turkish words were constructed from these suffixes. Seems like many established Turkish words constructed in this way? I know this curiosity might not matter much if one is just learning the language for personal reasons but still am curious.Smile

41.       Abla
3648 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 09:41 am

I agree it is funny that even suffixes tend to be borrowed from one language to another but it happens in world languages. I don´t know so much about Turkish, of course, but I know in Russian, for istance, the same English -men-suffix creates new actor names. They have even invented a feminine form for it, so a female athlete is sports|men|ka. The same way the Turkish actor derivator -ci is borrowed to Arabic and used with original Arabic words until know.

It might also be that there is a ready model in the language itself and the alien model feels at home because it is supported by similar domestic material.

42.       si++
3785 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 10:02 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

Now I know why are you so stubborn on your claim Si++, its because I mishighlighted the suffixes ; the right way should be as follows ;

 

Korkmak = to fear -----> Kork-ak ----> coward

Dilemek = to wish -----> Dile-k -------> wish

Kapamak = to close ----> Kapa-k this is wrong see my explaination below-----> lid, cover

Yatmak = to sleep ------> Yat-ak -----> bed

this will end the debate i guess..you cant be still oppose ?

 

No.  -(i)k and -ak/-ek are not the same.

 

And still you don´t give a reference which will support your claim.

 

As a general rule suffixes that do not require a buffer letter after an open syllable (the one that ends with a vowel), are used with one ı,i,u,ü after a closed syllable (the one that ends with a consonant).

 

-(i)m, -(i)miz, -(in), -(i)niz

silgi-m, silgi-(n)

kalem-im, kalem-in

 

-(i)t-

taşı-t-mak, tanı-t-mak, kapa-t-mak, işle-t-mek

kork-ut-mak, az-ıt-mak, berk-it-mek, ak-ıt-mak, sark-ıt-mak

 

-(i)k-

ac-ık-mak

bir-ik-mek

gec-ik-mek

göz-ük-mek

taş-ık-mak (today´s çıkmak)

 

My grammar book says -ak/-ek suffix comes from another form -gak/-gek which is in turn said to be

-gak = -ga-k -> -ak in today´s Turkish.

 

kap-gak -> kapak (not my claim, my book says so)

kur-gak -> kurak

ker-gek -> gerek

em-gek -> emek

kür-gek -> kürek

etc.

 

 

43.       tunci
7149 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 12:13 pm

 

THE SUFFIX -ÇıL [ -ÇİL,- ÇUL, -ÇÜL ]

This suffix comes to nouns and transform  them into  "fondness" ..etc..

 

Balık [ Fish ] ----> Balıkçıl ---> The name of the fish [ kingfisher ]

Ev [ House ] ----> Evcil ----> Domestic

İnsan [ Human ] ---> İnsancıl ----> Humanist, Humanistic

Ben [ I, me] -----> Bencil ---> Selfish,Egoistic

Ot [ grass] -----> Otçul ----> Herbivorous

Otçul hayvanlar ---> The group of animals who eat only plants.

Et [ Meat ] ----->  Etçil ----> Carnivorous

Etçil hayvanlar ---> The group of animals who eat only meat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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44.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 03:37 pm

 

Quoting Mavili

I just had a thought about this. Interesting about how we can now see how many Turkish words were constructed from these suffixes. Seems like many established Turkish words constructed in this way? I know this curiosity might not matter much if one is just learning the language for personal reasons but still am curious.Smile

 

A learner need not to know all about constructive suffixes unless they want to make up a brand new word.

Most of the constructive suffixes only applied to a very few words. For example -gıç is also used to form a doer-name: dal-gıç (=diver), and so far as I know this is one of two doer-names formed this way.  A learner misses nothing by not knowing about this suffix. If a learner want to know why it is dalgıç but not dalman, and why it is sayman but not saygıç they get no logical answer.   

I think only major constructive suffixes  should be taught. 

-mak, -mek for example, -ma,-me and -ış, -iş,-uş, -üş applied all the verb roots and stems  and every learner should know about them.

But what is funny most of the natives teaching Turkish to the learners  think mek/mak form of a word is a verb.{#emotions_dlg.head_bang}

 

45.       tunci
7149 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 04:16 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

A learner need not to know all about constructive suffixes unless they want to make up a brand new word.

Most of the constructive suffixes only applied to a very few words. For example -gıç is also used to form a doer-name: dal-gıç (=diver), and so far as I know this is one of two doer-names formed this way.  A learner misses nothing by not knowing about this suffix. If a learner want to know why it is dalgıç but not dalman, and why it is sayman but not saygıç they get no logical answer.   

I think only major constructive suffixes  should be taught. 

-mak, -mek for example, -ma,-me and -ış, -iş,-uş, -üş applied all the verb roots and stems  and every learner should know about them.

But what is funny most of the natives teaching Turkish to the learners  think mek/mak form of a word is a verb.{#emotions_dlg.head_bang}

 

 

 Tabii ki Türkçeyi öğrenenlerin yapım eklerinin tamamını öğrenmelerine lüzum yok. Yeni sözcük türetmek TDK´nın işi fakat bilmelerinde de zarar yok kanısındayım. Türkçe zevkli ve sır dolu maceralı bir yolculuktur. {#emotions_dlg.yes}

46.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 04:29 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Tabii ki Türkçeyi öğrenenlerin yapım eklerinin tamamını öğrenmelerine lüzum yok. Yeni sözcük türetmek TDK´nın işi fakat bilmelerinde de zarar yok kanısındayım. Türkçe zevkli ve sır dolu maceralı bir yolculuktur. {#emotions_dlg.yes}

 

Fazla sır dolu.{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} Neyse, belki en yaygın kullanılan eklerden başlamak daha iyi bir fikir olabilirdi diye düşününmüştüm, ama burada patron sensin.Wink 

47.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 05:02 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

I don´t know the grammar books (for the suffixes) you two use, but mine is Türk Dil Bilgisi by Prof.Dr.Muharrem Ergin which is the top reference book for Turkish suffixes.

I had hated Turkish grammar because of unlikeble book of Muharrem Ergin untill I met with Feyza Hepçilingirler´s "Türkçe Dilbilgisi Öğretme Kitabı" I still don´t like Turkish grammar very much but at least I don´t hate it anymore.

 

48.       tunci
7149 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 05:12 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

I had hated Turkish grammar because of unlikeble book of Muharrem Ergin untill I met with Feyza Hepçilingirler´s "Türkçe Dilbilgisi Öğretme Kitabı" I still don´t like Turkish grammar very much but at least I don´t hate it anymore.

 

 

 Kitap o kadar kötü mü Gök ? Lol.. Scalpel´e göre Top Reference mış ..Çok mu detaycı Muharrem Hoca acaba ?

49.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 30 Sep 2011 Fri 05:15 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Kitap o kadar kötü mü Gök ? Lol.. Scalpel´e göre Top Reference mış ..Çok mu detaycı Muharrem Hoca acaba ?

 

Şöyle söyleyeyim kitabın ruhu yok ve ben ruhsuz şeylerden nefret ederim. Bu yüzden ben hep edebiyatla ilgili olmuşumdur.

50.       Mavili
236 posts
 03 Oct 2011 Mon 04:21 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

THE SUFFIX -ÇıL [ -ÇİL,- ÇUL, -ÇÜL ]

This suffix comes to nouns and transform  them into  "fondness" ..etc..

 

Balık [ Fish ] ----> Balıkçıl ---> The name of the fish [ kingfisher ] and also "piscivorous"

 

As with herbivorous and carnivorous, "piscivorous" would mean "consumes only fish" so it is in line with the suffix describing character traits.

Balıkçıl kuş ?

But I wonder, if one is refering to the the group of bird species that eat fish (heron, egret etc) is kuş sometimes used after so its known that its the bird type you are talking about? Such as if yırtıcı kuş refers to raptor type birds. (eagle, buteo etc)

 

51.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Oct 2011 Mon 09:23 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

I had hated Turkish grammar because of unlikeble book of Muharrem Ergin untill I met with Feyza Hepçilingirler´s "Türkçe Dilbilgisi Öğretme Kitabı" I still don´t like Turkish grammar very much but at least I don´t hate it anymore.

 

 

Oh Come on!

Studying Turkish grammar is fun for me. I can open it and read it for hours as if I was reading an interesting novel.

Abla liked this message
52.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Oct 2011 Mon 09:45 am

 

Quoting si++

 

 

Oh Come on!

Studying Turkish grammar is fun for me. I can open it and read it for hours as if I was reading an interesting novel.

 

And once Max Mueller had said this about Turkish Grammar:

It is a real pleasure to read a Turkish grammar, even though one may have no wish to acquire it practically. The ingenious manner in which the numerous grammatical forms are brought out, the regularity which pervades the system of declension and conjugation, the transparency and intelligibility of the whole structure, must strike all who have a sense of that wonderful power of the human mind which has displayed itself in language. Given so small a number of graphic and demonstrative roots as would hardly suffice to express the commonest wants of human beings, to produce an instrument that shall render the faintest shades of feeling and thought;--given a vague infinitive or a stern imperative, to derive from it such moods as an optative or subjunctive, and tenses as an aorist or paulo-post future;--given incoherent utterances, to arrange them into a system where all is uniform and regular, all combined and harmonious;--such is the work of the human mind which we see realized in "language." But in most languages nothing of this early process remains visible. They stand before us like solid rocks, and the microscope of the philologist alone can reveal the remains of organic life with which they are built up.

In the grammar of the Turkic languages, on the contrary, we have before us a language of perfectly transparent structure, and a grammar the inner workings of which we can study, as if watching the building of cells in a crystal bee-hive. An eminent orientalist remarked "we might imagine Turkish to be the result of the deliberations of some eminent society of learned men;" but no such society could have devised what the mind of man produced, left to itself in the steppes of Tatary, and guided only by its innate laws, or by an instinctive power as wonderful as any within the realm of nature.

53.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Oct 2011 Mon 09:52 am

By the way, Max Mueller has been quoted from: here

 

Click on it if you are interested his views on Turkish grammar and Turks.

 

54.       Abla
3648 posts
 03 Oct 2011 Mon 10:06 am

My knowledge of Turkish syntax is still trivial, of course, but what fascinates me is the way the process of thinking is so visible in Turkish sentences.

I have noticed Turkish is one of the languages which is often studied because of theoretical interest, you could say love for language. Few people understand this. My own studying is a secret between me and myself. If people around me knew they would begin to look for secret reasons for this hobby and I am not into those fruitless discussions.

Often those people who like grammar like maths also. Just give me a high school algebra book and I will be busy all day. (But I like the exciting novel as well.)



Edited (10/3/2011) by Abla

55.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Oct 2011 Mon 10:27 am

 

Quoting Abla

My knowledge of Turkish syntax is still trivial, of course, but what fascinates me is the way the process of thinking is so visible in Turkish sentences.

I have noticed Turkish is one of the languages which is often studied because of theoretical interest, you could say love for language. Few people understand this. My own studying is a secret between me and myself. If people around me knew they would begin to look for secret reasons for this hobby and I am not into those fruitless discussions.

Often those people who like grammar like maths also. Just give me a high school algebra book and I will be busy all day. (But I like the exciting novel as well.)

 

I also like maths. Sometimes I ponder days or weeks (if not months) to solve an interesting maths problem. And you know what? I like Turkish grammar because it´s like a maths book.

 

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