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Seni øzledim or øzleyorum
(30 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 3
1.       Mariannehanim
2 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 08:48 pm

Can somebody help me? If i look at the gramar, it seems like the correct translation for "i miss you" is "seni özleyorum", but the turkish people are saying "seni özledim". 

 

=)=)

2.       sufler
358 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 09:41 pm

I sort of understand what they mean by saying that, because in my native Polish "to miss" is tęsknić and we can say both stęskniłem się za tobą (past) and tęsknię za tobą (present). I think using the past form puts emphasis on the fact that I HAVE already started missing you, I just can´t wait for your return.

3.       harp00n
3993 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 10:03 pm

Sufler, i want to help you but i dont understand you.... {#emotions_dlg.think}

4.       sufler
358 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 10:12 pm

I don´t need help, because it´s not me asking the question.

I tried to explain the issue to the asker who is Mariannehanim using knowledge about my own languge, because we say it similar to Turks

5.       deli
5904 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 10:17 pm

its seni  özüluyorum and yes they often say seni özledim they sort of mean the same .dont worry too much about it

6.       Abla
3647 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 10:35 pm

I think I know this.

 

Seni özlüyorum means continuing action. Someone can say this to you when the feeling is not over. I guess you can read it in a message, hear in on the phone. The speaker feels when he doesn’t see you it’s not enough reason for the longing to stop. I don’t think anyone can say Seni özlüyorum face to face (it would be very poetic).

 

If the speaker uses past tense Seni özledim he wants to say that the feeling is over for now because he sees you or he is in contact with you in another way that satisfies him and puts an end to the feeling of distance for the time being.

 

It is basically a question of aspect, a point of view, how the speaker wants to describe his feeling.

 

sufler, I think we could find the same in Polish because you deal with complicated aspect also, am I right? (We could deal with Polish better if you named the morphemes in the sentence, though. Our Polish is too bad.)



Edited (2/26/2012) by Abla

7.       deli
5904 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 10:42 pm

 

Quoting Abla

cant see what you wrote queen of grammar

Abla liked this message
8.       deli
5904 posts
 26 Feb 2012 Sun 10:44 pm

 

Quoting A

and now I cant read my words

Abla liked this message
9.       Mariannehanim
2 posts
 27 Feb 2012 Mon 11:02 pm

Thanks, everybody. But is it incorrect to use seni özledim in the present?

10.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 12:34 am

 

Quoting Mariannehanim

Thanks, everybody. But is it incorrect to use seni özledim in the present?

 

"özledim" is past. But interesting thing is it doesnt have to be over when you use it. If you write someone far away "Seni çok özledim". It means something like I have been missing you.

11.       Abla
3647 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 07:55 am

Quote:gokuyum

If you write someone far away "Seni çok özledim". It means something like I have been missing you.

 

An interesting view. And I wonder why. An action with -di- usually has an end. Maybe the writer sees writing the feeling on paper finishes one period of time and looks at the missing from the receiver´s point of view. Who is in another place, in another time. Aspect is a spiritual thing. (I´m sure the questioner is more confused than she ever was.)

12.       si++
3785 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 10:54 am

What we call "-di past" past in Turkish is a non-future tense. So it may be used for the simple past tense and for the present perfect tense.

 

See also: this thread

13.       Abla
3647 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 12:55 pm

Quote:si++

What we call "-di past" past in Turkish is a non-future tense. So it may be used for the simple past tense and for the present perfect tense.

 

-dik participle is non-future. I can understand that. But don´t you think the time definitions for -di-past are different? This was referred to even in the link you mentioned, si++.

 

The grammar of Göksel and Kerslake says -di past is *)the only tense that denotes absolute time in Turkish. And that point in time is past, that aspect is perfective (the action is finished). This is a quote from the book (sorry, I can´t remember if it was direct or if I edited it but anyway):

 

"-(I)yor, -mAktA and -(y)AcAK are markers of relative tense. They denote absolute present or future only on the absence of another tense marker like -DI."

 

Thus, for instance what is usually called present continuous is actually not present at all, it is only continuous (imperfective aspect). If it talks about now or not is seen from the presence or absense of -di. This very much makes sense to me but I never discussed it with a native, I may be wrong.

 

*) Sorry, on second thought I think -miş past is the same.



Edited (3/1/2012) by Abla
Edited (3/1/2012) by Abla

14.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 02:24 pm

Another example:

 

I like the movie.

We say: Filmi beğendim.

 

We use past tense. But it doesnt mean we dont like it anymore.

slavica liked this message
15.       Abla
3647 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 03:18 pm

Quote:gokuyum

Another example:

 

I like the movie.

We say: Filmi beğendim.

 

We use past tense. But it doesnt mean we dont like it anymore.

 

An example that leaves no room for speculation. -di- past denoting continuing action.

 

I just thought...verbs of feelings and emotions may be exceptional. What we understand by a feeling, I guess, is

1. an emotional sensation (change)

2. the continuing weakness of mind which is the result of the above sensation.

Feelings are difficult to get rid of. Maybe for saying

          Filmi beğendim

it´s enough reason to use -di- past that the emotional sensation happened in the past.

 

Example machine gokuyum, can you think of a similar sentence with a verb that doesn´t mean feeling or emotion?



Edited (3/1/2012) by Abla

16.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 01 Mar 2012 Thu 04:13 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

Example machine gokuyum, can you think of a similar sentence with a verb that doesn´t mean feeling or emotion?

 

Hmm. I can´t think of.

17.       si++
3785 posts
 02 Mar 2012 Fri 09:51 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

-dik participle is non-future. I can understand that. But don´t you think the time definitions for -di-past are different? This was referred to even in the link you mentioned, si++.

 

Definition from: here

A nonfuture tense (abbreviated nfut) is a grammatical tense that distinguishes a verbal action as having taken place in times past or times present, as opposed to future tense.

 

The grammar of Göksel and Kerslake says -di past is *)the only tense that denotes absolute time in Turkish. And that point in time is past, that aspect is perfective (the action is finished). This is a quote from the book (sorry, I can´t remember if it was direct or if I edited it but anyway):

 

As for "that point in time is past", here are some examples:

- Ali nerede görebiliyormusun?

- Şu sağ taraftaki grubun içinde, üzerined mavi bir tişört var

- Evet gördüm (Time is the moment of utterance i.e. "now")

 

Or Ali is in the kitchen and his Mum who is in living hall calls him:

- Ali buraya gelir misin?

- Geldim (He has not come yet, but means I am coming right away)

 

 

"-(I)yor, -mAktA and -(y)AcAK are markers of relative tense. They denote absolute present or future only on the absence of another tense marker like -DI."

 

Thus, for instance what is usually called present continuous is actually not present at all, it is only continuous (imperfective aspect). If it talks about now or not is seen from the presence or absense of -di. This very much makes sense to me but I never discussed it with a native, I may be wrong.

 

*) Sorry, on second thought I think -miş past is the same.

 

 

18.       Abla
3647 posts
 02 Mar 2012 Fri 12:52 pm

So interesting examples in this thread. But still I am not convinced the use of -di past for present and ongoing actions is anything more but marginal occasions. Exceptions can be found in every field of grammar and often they can be explained.

You can convince me more.

Quote:si++

- Ali nerede görebiliyormusun?

- Şu sağ taraftaki grubun içinde, üzerined mavi bir tişört var

- Evet gördüm (Time is the moment of utterance i.e. "now")

 

What is past doesn´t have to be ten years ago. The human reaction time (on average 0,5 - 1 sec) is enough. (Traffic psychologists say it is a long time: a vehicle that moves 80 kmph moves 11,1 metres in half a second. During that time you can send a pedestrian crossing the street to the hereafter.)

Quote:si++

Or Ali is in the kitchen and his Mum who is in living hall calls him:

- Ali buraya gelir misin?

- Geldim (He has not come yet, but means I am coming right away)

 

This shows how rich the aspect system is in human language. Talk is not only about real points in time but also imagined, planned, scheduled. On the level of thought it is no problem for us to place ourselves in another time. Good that this was brought up.

 

 

19.       si++
3785 posts
 02 Mar 2012 Fri 01:26 pm

 

Quoting Abla

What is past doesn´t have to be ten years ago. The human reaction time (on average 0,5 - 1 sec) is enough. (Traffic psychologists say it is a long time: a vehicle that moves 80 kmph moves 11,1 metres in half a second. During that time you can send a pedestrian crossing the street to the hereafter.)

 

Isn´t it called present perfect?

 

Earlier I had said this:

So it may be used for the simple past tense and for the present perfect tense.

 

20.       Abla
3647 posts
 02 Mar 2012 Fri 01:56 pm

"Present perfect, a combination of past tense and perfect aspect." Sorry, I was not familiar with this term until now and it skipped my attention. The action is in the past but our attention is in its consequences. It is a fresh view to it at least for me and I guess to any English speaker also. At least it explains these examples where present feelings are expressed with -di past.

Thanks.

 

21.       tristerecuerdos
518 posts
 02 Mar 2012 Fri 04:46 pm

i think that seni ozledim is past, like "i missed you" and seni ozluyorum is present, like "im missing you"  

22.       scalpel
1472 posts
 02 Mar 2012 Fri 10:23 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

(I´m sure the questioner is more confused than she ever was.)

 

The questioner only? {#emotions_dlg.think}

23.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 12 Mar 2012 Mon 08:37 pm

I have conversations with somebody who speaks both my native tongue (Dutch) and Turkish has her mother tongue (actually, mother and father tongue )

When she speaks Dutch she says "I miss you" (ik mis je), when she speak Turkish she says "seni özledim" to me. I gather that she means exactly the same thing. Basically you are missing the person and have been missing the person, it is just what is easiest to say. Özledim just rolls better than özleyorum.

24.       scalpel
1472 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 09:18 am

özlüyorum vs özledim..

 

At first sight they seem to have same meaning/usage.

Do they actually?..

As they are in different tenses, there must be a difference between them even though it might be a slight difference.. 

From the point of view of grammar the difference is considerable:

 

  •  seni özlüyorum (the action is in progress in the present)
  •  seni özledim (the action happened in the past)

 

So how to know when to use which one?

A is writing a mail/making a phone call to B

" seni özlüyorum (I am missing you).."*

A meeting B at the airport

" seni özledim (I missed you).."

=> A can´t keep missing B as they are now able to talk, cuddle and kiss each other Smile

Thus it must be in -di tense in a face-to-face conversation.. (there is an exception that you can guess  Wink 

 

* It is also possible to say özledim when writing a mail/ making a phone call, as if it is a face-to-face conversation.. 

25.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 11:12 am

Nobody ever said ozliyorum to me! Phonecalls, letters, face to face, it was always ozl

26.       tunci
7149 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 12:11 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

Nobody ever said ozliyorum to me! Phonecalls, letters, face to face, it was always ozl

 

 Sorry to hear that nobody said " seni özlüyorum ". But as in the explanations above , we use that form time to time on the phone or in the letter when that person we misses are especially away from us.  It expresses the continuing act of missing.

Bare in mind, Each society has its own cultural way of  showing affection. As Turks , we tend to not to show our affections verbally. Instead, we tend to show our affection in our acts. Especially to family members, For example ;

You dont often hear kids say to their parents " Seni seviyorum Anne " or "Seni seviyorum Baba".

It doesnt mean that kids dont love their parents. That is hard to explain. It is a cultural thing that we all brought up like that. Kids shows their affection to their parents by looking after them, obeying what they say....

Whereas in the west , it is more common to express their affection verbally.. This is my observation. Culture is shaped by religious values, traditions and nation´s historical conscious.

On the other hand things are changing, and culture is becoming more and more dynamic. Therefore the new generations has more verbal expressions of affection but sometimes less in practice..

27.       Abla
3647 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 01:06 pm

Such an interesting post, tunci. Another Eastern person here! I also find open talk about feelings very embarassing  - even the translation tasks here are sometimes too much for me  -  and listening how people talk to one another in American TV seria for instance I feel like it is a bargain sale of "I love you" and similar stuff.

I never told my mother I love her. She knows it. Instead I think I should take better care of her.

A question popped up in my mind: are the first names used very much in Turkish when two adult people speak? I mean like "Why don´t you sit down, Ali?" and "How was your day, Özlem?" In my culture mentioning the first name without a practical reason sounds intimate and often needless.

 



Edited (3/13/2012) by Abla

tunci liked this message
28.       tunci
7149 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 01:28 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Such an interesting post, tunci. Another Eastern person here! I also find open talk about feelings very embarassing  - even the translation tasks here are sometimes too much for me  -  and listening how people talk to one another in American TV seria for instance I feel like it is a bargain sale of "I love you" and similar stuff.

I never told my mother I love her. She knows it. Instead I think I should take better care of her.

A question popped up in my mind: are the first names used very much in Turkish when two adult people speak? I mean like "Why don´t you sit down, Ali?" and "How was your day, Özlem?" In my culture mentioning the first name without a practical reason sounds intimate and often needless.

 

 

Yes, Turkish adults tend to use first names alot ,but we should add the respective titles [abla, abi, teyze, amca,kardeş,birader] after the names. Such as ;

Why don´t you sit down Ali abi ? ---> Ali abi, otursana. [ If Ali is older than you]

Günün nasıl geçti Özlem Abla ? ---> How was your day Özlem sister. [ If Özlem is older than you]

 

OR, we sometimes just use the titles instead of adding names in front..

Abi , otursana ---> Take a sit brother. [older brother]

Amca nasılsın ? ---> How are you uncle ? --> Here , the uncle doesnt have to be real uncle, it is used for someone who is older as age of your father.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUT, we never call someone who is much older than us with just as their names !!!

Example ;

I am 35 years old, and Ali is 60 years old. I CAN NOT call him just "Ali" . I have to say " Ali amca " [ If we know eacother ] , alternatively If I dont know him then I can call him as " Ali Bey [Mr.Ali] . BUT I can NOT call him with just his name.

 

 

 

 

 

slavica, scalpel and Abla liked this message
29.       scalpel
1472 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 06:48 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

Nobody ever said ozliyorum to me! Phonecalls, letters, face to face, it was always ozl

 

Poor you!

30.       scalpel
1472 posts
 13 Mar 2012 Tue 07:02 pm

 

Quoting tunci

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUT, we never call someone who is much older than us with just as their names !!!

Example ;

I am 35 years old, and Ali is 60 years old. I CAN NOT call him just "Ali" . I have to say " Ali amca " [ If we know eacother ] , alternatively If I dont know him then I can call him as " Ali Bey [Mr.Ali] . BUT I can NOT call him with just his name.

 

Should I call you Tunci Amca or Tunci Bey

Şaka yapıyorum hocam..

I´ll pick Tunci Abi out of three..

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