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Hoşbul-ne?
1.       Sir_Robalot
73 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 09:44 am

As a learner, I sometimes notice irregularities in Turkish. Maybe this is "just a word, and that´s the way it is", but I´m still curious if someone knows the answer to this. 

If I visit someone alone, and they greet me by saying "hoşgeldin", why is the answer - even when I´m alone - "hoşbulduk" and not "hoşbuldum"? 

 

/Rob

2.       tunci
7149 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 10:10 am

 

Quoting Sir_Robalot

As a learner, I sometimes notice irregularities in Turkish. Maybe this is "just a word, and that´s the way it is", but I´m still curious if someone knows the answer to this. 

If I visit someone alone, and they greet me by saying "hoşgeldin", why is the answer - even when I´m alone - "hoşbulduk" and not "hoşbuldum"? 

 

/Rob

 

You can say "hoşbuldum" too. However "Hoşbulduk" is more common way. Pluralizm in Turkish expressions is seen alot when we refer first singular person [I].

For example ; when we we talk about ourselves to a friend or something that happened to us we sometimes pluralize person "I" as an example below ;

A. İki yıl önce üniversiteyi bitirdik ve işe girdik ---> CAN  MEAN BOTH "I" and " WE"

[ I finished [graduated from] university and [after that] I got a job.]

[ we finished [graduated from] university and [after that] I got a job.]

the question is , how we know if it is "I" or " we" that is referred ? We cant know unless we witness the dialog or we know the context.

 

 

 

 

RIttaMaria and Abla liked this message
3.       tunci
7149 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 10:20 am

 

Another weird pluralization is seen in time expressions such as ;

İyi sabahlar --->  Good morning["Günaydın "]

Günaydınlar ---> Good morning[ Although it is not common to use this way]

Merhabalar ---> Hellos  ! [ It is possible to pluralize "Merhaba" ]

iyi günler ---> Have good days ![ Have a good day]

iyi dersler --> Have good lessons !

iyi yolculuklar --> Have good journeys !

iyi akşamlar ---> Have good evenings !

iyi geceler --> Have good nights !

Orada havalar nasıl ? ---> How is the weathers over there ?

 



Edited (3/28/2012) by tunci

Donkeyoaty and Abla liked this message
4.       tunci
7149 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 11:18 am

why is the answer - even when I´m alone - "hoşbulduk" and not "hoşbuldum"? 

Your question aroused an opinion of mine that is " individualism in languages", when comparing two languages Turkish and English.

This is my opinion ; [I dont say this is good or that is bad.I just want to share my analysis ]

As Turkish is infulenced by islamic and cultural values, it has more community based way ,I mean "togetherness in actions " are more acceptable in expressions. Such as ;

as in your example above , we prefer to say "we are welcomed" instead of " I am welcomed" . We try to involve others in our actions or thoughts.

Annemiz gelmiş ! --> Hey [look] Our  Mother has arrived ! --> The speaker who is not necesarily have to be her real son/daughter can say "our mother"  whereas in english language it is more likely to be said as " look the mother has arrived ".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

seanthegutsy, jolanaze and emreteacher liked this message
5.       Abla
3647 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 12:54 pm

Quote:tunci

We try to involve others in our actions or thoughts.

 

I have noticed in Turkish the listener is more involved in the speech situation than English speakers have got used to. The speaker even uses certain grammatical markings which refer to the common experience of those present. This shows at least in two occasions:

1. Use of demonstrative pronouns. In English the use of this and that is based on the distance of the object only. In Turkish, the speaker’s view of the listener’s attention is also a factor when chosing between bu, şu and o.

For example, imagine a dinner with two people, where one of them needs to refer to a glass away from her on the table. In English the speaker could say ‘could you pass me that glass? ’ since the glass is away from where she is sitting. However, in Turkish, depending on the addressee’s visual attention on the referent, the speaker would use “şu” if the addressee’s visual attention is away from the glass (e.g. when she is concentrated on the food), but use “o”, that is the distal form, if the addressee’s attention is directed towards or presumed to be on the referent. (Küntay& Özyürek 2003, http://home.ku.edu.tr/~akuntay/KuntayOzyurek.pdf)

 2. Use of 3rd sg possessive suffix in sentences like       

Dışarısı soğuk ‘It’s cold outside’

where the odd POSS refers nowhere else but to the common perception and experience of the speaker and the listener.



Edited (3/28/2012) by Abla

6.       Abla
3647 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 03:05 pm

I remembered a common use of we which people often laugh at. A doctor may ask his patient How are we feeling today actually referring to you with pl 1st. It’s called patronizing we. Other secondary uses of the English we, the royal we, the author’s we, editorial we, inclusive and exclusive we are presented here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We

I am not an English speaker but they look familiar (except the royal, of course  -  we have a president in F. and he doesn´t use we referring to himself unless he is talking about his young wife also). I wonder if the different we´s could be applied to Turkish also.



Edited (3/28/2012) by Abla

7.       Aida krishan
92 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 03:33 pm

.



Edited (3/11/2013) by Aida krishan

8.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 29 Mar 2012 Thu 11:46 am

 

Quoting tunci

why is the answer - even when I´m alone - "hoşbulduk" and not "hoşbuldum"? 

Your question aroused an opinion of mine that is " individualism in languages", when comparing two languages Turkish and English.

This is my opinion ; [I dont say this is good or that is bad.I just want to share my analysis ]

As Turkish is infulenced by islamic and cultural values, it has more community based way ,I mean "togetherness in actions " are more acceptable in expressions. Such as ;

as in your example above , we prefer to say "we are welcomed" instead of " I am welcomed" . We try to involve others in our actions or thoughts.

Annemiz gelmiş ! --> Hey [look] Our  Mother has arrived ! --> The speaker who is not necesarily have to be her real son/daughter can say "our mother"  whereas in english language it is more likely to be said as " look the mother has arrived ".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 tunci, great observation.

 

Other examples "Emre´ler geldi" means Emre and his family

 

In English, the only similarity is the "royal we". The Queen will say "we" meaning "I"

9.       Sir_Robalot
73 posts
 29 Mar 2012 Thu 12:57 pm

Thanks all for your replies! 

 

/Rob

10.       seanthegutsy
11 posts
 23 Apr 2012 Mon 03:54 pm

I really find Tunci to be the master linguist in this forum, as my ethnic background is Chinese, and in Mandarin Chinese, we also have this ´togetherness in actions´ way of expression, just not as much as Turkish. Anyhow, upon reading your post, I decided to register this account and settle down! I´ve been working and living in Turkey for 2 straight years, and I started catching your tongue six months ago. Learning Turkish is getting more interesting for me! 

Quoting tunci

why is the answer - even when I´m alone - "hoşbulduk" and not "hoşbuldum"? 

Your question aroused an opinion of mine that is " individualism in languages", when comparing two languages Turkish and English.

This is my opinion ; [I dont say this is good or that is bad.I just want to share my analysis ]

As Turkish is infulenced by islamic and cultural values, it has more community based way ,I mean "togetherness in actions " are more acceptable in expressions. Such as ;

as in your example above , we prefer to say "we are welcomed" instead of " I am welcomed" . We try to involve others in our actions or thoughts.

Annemiz gelmiş ! --> Hey [look] Our  Mother has arrived ! --> The speaker who is not necesarily have to be her real son/daughter can say "our mother"  whereas in english language it is more likely to be said as " look the mother has arrived ".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

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