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The Yielding Vowel in Some Stems
(22 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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1.       Abla
3647 posts
 23 Apr 2012 Mon 06:33 pm

In words like

 

gönül ,-nlü
1. heart; mind.
2. inclination, desire, willingness.

 

boyun ,-ynu
1. neck.
2. cervix.
3. geog. pass, defile.
4. responsibility.

 

koyun ,-ynu
1. bosom, breast,
2. arms, embrace.

 

in which forms of the paradigm does the stem vowel disappear? In all cases sg and pl? What if a possessive suffix is added, does the vowel go or stay?

2.       tunci
7149 posts
 23 Apr 2012 Mon 07:06 pm

 

Quoting Abla

In words like

 

gönül ,-nlü
1. heart; mind.
2. inclination, desire, willingness.

 

boyun ,-ynu
1. neck.
2. cervix.
3. geog. pass, defile.
4. responsibility.

 

koyun ,-ynu
1. bosom, breast,
2. arms, embrace.

 

in which forms of the paradigm does the stem vowel disappear? In all cases sg and pl? What if a possessive suffix is added, does the vowel go or stay?

 

The last vowel in the stem in fact being concealed temporarly , it is disappearing from sight but not for good. Since that vowel is put back when we use 3.person plural as in example below ;

boyun --> neck

boynum --> my neck

boynun ---> your neck

boynu ----> his/her/its neck

boynumuz --> our neck

boyunları ----> their neck

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

boynumda --> in[on] my neck           boyunlarında --> in their neck

boynumdan --> from my neck           boyunlarından  --> from their neck

boynumu ---> accusative case         boyunlarını ----> accusative case

boynuma ---> dative case               boyunlarına ---> dative case

As you see in all cases , the last vowel in the stem disappears temporarly and comes back when we use with 3.Plural person [Onlar]

 

 

3.       Abla
3647 posts
 23 Apr 2012 Mon 07:49 pm

Ok, clear. But what if there was no possessive suffix but the case ending was attached straight to the stem?

 

NOM gönül

ACC gönl|ü

DAT gönl|e

LOC gönül|de

ABL gönül|den

GEN gönül|ün,

 

is it?

 

And it looks to me like the form given in the dictionary

 

gönül ,-nlü <----- here
1. heart; mind.
2. inclination, desire, willingness.

 

is the accusative.

4.       tunci
7149 posts
 23 Apr 2012 Mon 09:02 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Ok, clear. But what if there was no possessive suffix but the case ending was attached straight to the stem?

 

NOM gönül

ACC gönl|ü

DAT gönl|e

LOC gönül|de

ABL gönül|den

GEN gönül|ün,

 

is it?

 

And it looks to me like the form given in the dictionary

 

gönül ,-nlü <----- here
1. heart; mind.
2. inclination, desire, willingness.

 

is the accusative.

 

If the case ending attached straight to the stem as in your example would be as follows;

NOM gönü

ACC gönlü  ----------> Gönlü günahlardan temizlemek zor iş

DAT gönüle   -----> ´ Orhan Gazi´nin nasihatı 600 yıl boyunca gönülden gönüle ulaştı. ´  

LOC gönülde

ABL gönülden       

GEN gönlün

5.       Abla
3647 posts
 23 Apr 2012 Mon 10:05 pm

Thank you, tunci. Now there is a model here for everyone to follow. Trying to figure out the ruling on my own has cost me a good headache. The forms look so similar that you sometimes need to see them in a sentence before you can be sure. They even get mixed with other stems: boyun and boy with certain set of grammatical markers look so much the same sometimes in my eyes...

 

Learners of Turkish have been coddled with too much regularity I guess.

6.       tunci
7149 posts
 24 Apr 2012 Tue 12:07 am

 

Quoting Abla

Thank you, tunci. Now there is a model here for everyone to follow. Trying to figure out the ruling on my own has cost me a good headache. The forms look so similar that you sometimes need to see them in a sentence before you can be sure. They even get mixed with other stems: boyun and boy with certain set of grammatical markers look so much the same sometimes in my eyes...

 

Learners of Turkish have been coddled with too much regularity I guess.

 

Good example, If we close our eyes and pick up the word "boy" from its context with genitive case attached , we would be left clueless about the meaning, such as ;

possible meanings of boyun ;

 

1.boyun --> Could be nominal case of the word " neck "


2.boyun --> Could be genitive case of "tribe"

   Boyun genel özelliği cesur, mert ve savaşcı olmasıydı.

   Warrior, redblooded and braveness was the general characteristic of the tribe.


3. boyun ---> Could be genitive case of the word "hight", "tall". [your hight ]

   Boyun kaç ?

   How tall are you ? [literally "how much is your tall ?]

 



Edited (4/24/2012) by tunci

7.       metehan2001
501 posts
 24 Apr 2012 Tue 11:00 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Ok, clear. But what if there was no possessive suffix but the case ending was attached straight to the stem?

 

NOM gönül

ACC gönl|ü

DAT gönl|e

LOC gönül|de

ABL gönül|den

GEN gönül|ün,

 

is it?

 

And it looks to me like the form given in the dictionary

 

gönül ,-nlü <----- here
1. heart; mind.
2. inclination, desire, willingness.

 

is the accusative.

In such stuations, if the words like "gönül, boyun, alın, ağız, kalp etc." takes a wovel, the second wovel from the stem is dropped. Examples:

boyun: boynu, boyna

alın: alnı, alna

ağız: ağzı, ağza

gönül: gönlü, gönle

kalp: kalbi, kalbe

It doesn´t matter wherher it is accusative or dative, the rule is the same as I explained above. But you should know the specific words which obey this rule.

 

8.       Abla
3647 posts
 24 Apr 2012 Tue 11:19 pm

Why does it look like words of this type are so often names of body parts?

 

It seems that you two disagree about the dative form. Google gave hits for both

 

           gönülden gönüle AND

           gönülden gönle

 

but the previous were much much more.



Edited (4/24/2012) by Abla

9.       metehan2001
501 posts
 24 Apr 2012 Tue 11:37 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Why does it look like words of this type are so often names of body parts?

 

It seems that you two disagree about the dative form. Google gave hits for both

 

           gönülden gönüle AND

           gönülden gönle

 

but the previous were much much more.

What I have explained in my previous post is the garmmatical rule, but sometimes in some cases -as you have mentioned here one of them- you can witness the different usage and they are exceptions.

The important thing here, the rule in my explanation is very easy to learn. The such words are so less in number and if you learn them and the rule I explained above you will not face any difficulty for using them.

 

tunci liked this message
10.       tunci
7149 posts
 24 Apr 2012 Tue 11:48 pm

 

Quoting metehan2001

 

What I have explained in my previous post is the garmmatical rule, but sometimes in some cases -as you have mentioned here one of them- you can witness the different usage and they are exceptions.

The important thing here, the rule in my explanation is very easy to learn. The such words are so less in number and if you learn them and the rule I explained above you will not face any difficulty for using them.

 

 

As Metehan Hoca said, there are exceptional usages as in our case [dative case] we witness both ways and I ve gone for keeping the vowel. And in this particular case there is another subrule which is ;

These sort of words , if they are in reduplication form [ikileme] the vowel does not drop.Such as ;

Gönül gönüle

Gönülden gönüle

Ağız ağıza

Ağızdan ağıza

 

 

metehan2001 liked this message
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