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Varying Functions of -sA-
(12 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       Abla
3648 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 12:10 am

I paid attention to a newspaper headline

 

                                Bugün ne pişirsem? ´What should I cook today?´

 

It seemed to me that there was something wrong with it. The if material -se- which is usually in the subclause is in the main clause here! What is the reason:

 

1. because it is a question OR

2. because the subclause is lacking?



Edited (1/2/2013) by Abla

2.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 12:22 am

 

Quoting Abla

I paid attention to a newspaper headline

 

                                Bugün ne pişirsem? ´What should I cook today?´

 

It seemed to me that there was something wrong with it. The if material -se- which is usually in the subclause is in the main clause here! What is the reason:

 

1. because it is a question OR

2. because the subclause is lacking?

 

Think this "se" as a wish clause. It is like "What may I cook?"

tunci liked this message
3.       Abla
3648 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 12:24 am

I see. Can I generalize it? I mean if -se- seems to be in the main clause is it a wish?

4.       tunci
7149 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 01:16 am

 

Quoting Abla

I paid attention to a newspaper headline

 

                                Bugün ne pişirsem? ´What should I cook today?´

 

It seemed to me that there was something wrong with it. The if material -se- which is usually in the subclause is in the main clause here! What is the reason:

 

1. because it is a question OR

2. because the subclause is lacking?

 

If  conditional -se,-sa is the  predicate of the main clause then it is optative.

Therefore the subclauses with conditional -se,-sa is treated as adverbial clause of the main clause.


Bugün  ne  pişirsem ? ---> What I fancy [wish] to cook today ?

Bugün kek pişirsem yer mi acaba ? ---> would he/she  eat if I make a cake today ?

Bugün kek pişirsem  --> subclause [conditional]

yer mi acaba --> main clause

yer --> predicate of the main clause

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As in the compound clause below;

O da gelirse gideriz.---> If he comes too then we would go.

"gideriz " is the predicate of the compound clause.

Biz ---> Subject

O da gelirse --> Adverbial clause [subclause ] and -se here is conditional.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


 





 



Edited (6/2/2012) by tunci

Moha-ios liked this message
5.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 01:17 am

bugün nereye gitsem (acaba). [Where to go, I have no idea, do you have any suggestion]

yarın ne yapsam.

ne yesem.

...

 

6.       Abla
3648 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 01:56 am

Thank you, gokuyum, tunci, ikicihan. Great help. I can´t remember having seen an optative form in a question before but it makes sense now.

seanthegutsy liked this message
7.       si++
3785 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 02:50 pm

 

Quoting Abla

I paid attention to a newspaper headline

 

                                Bugün ne pişirsem? ´What should I cook today?´

 

It seemed to me that there was something wrong with it. The if material -se- which is usually in the subclause is in the main clause here! What is the reason:

 

1. because it is a question OR

2. because the subclause is lacking?

 

Actually it´s the main clause lacking.

 

For example:

Bugün ne pişirsem ("iyi/uygun olurdu" or "karar veremiyorum" or "diye düşünüyorum" etc.)?

caliptrix liked this message
8.       Abla
3648 posts
 02 Jun 2012 Sat 03:32 pm

Quote:si++

Bugün ne pişirsem ("iyi/uygun olurdu" or "karar veremiyorum" or "diye düşünüyorum" etc.)?

 

Why do I have the feeling that subjunctive would do the same job here?

 

                          Bugün ne pişireyim...

 

It seems that there are at least two grammatical ways of expressing the speaker´s envisaging things. Well, ise is still almost lexical.

9.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Sep 2012 Tue 04:10 pm

Another nice question example with optative here:

 

                     Ne yapsak da bu sıkıntıyı atlatsak? ´What could we do to get over the hump?´

 

Nothing like ´in order to´ is needed. Handy.

10.       tunci
7149 posts
 25 Sep 2012 Tue 09:45 pm

 

 

Some functions of  the suffix -sA


1. Condition

Gürültü yaparsan insanlar uyanır.

If you make noise ,people would [will] wake up.

 

Erken yola çıkarsan akşama eve varırsın.

If you set off early you would [will] get home tonight.

 

******************************************

 

2. Determination

No matter what happens, no matter what conditions ,

we are determined to achive or fulfil the action.

 

Kar da yağsa yine gelirim.

Even [if] it snows I will still come.

[I am determined to come ]

 

Dünya tersine dönse vazgeçmem.

Even [if] the world turns upside down, I will not give up.

 

3. Guess, strong guess.


Ahmet yorgun olsa gerek zira bugün kahveye gelmedi.

Ali must be tired since he didn´t come to the cafe today.

 

Bu camı olsa olsa Serkan kırmıştır.

Only person that broke this window must be Serkan.

 

4. hypothetically

 

Benim yerimde olsan ne yapardın ?

[Hypothetically] what would you do if you were in my place ?

 

5. Doubt, Fear, Worry

 

Ya eve hırsız girmişse !

What if a thief broke in the house ! ------> FEAR

 

Ya bu kış çok soğuk olursa !    --------> WORRY

What if this this winter gets very cold !

 

Ya bir gün hastalansam bu çocuklara kim bakar? ----> WORRY

What if  one day I get ill, who would look after these kids ?

 

6. threat

Ders çalışmazsan kızarım ha!    

If you don´t study I will get mad at you !

 

Bak, söylediklerimi yapmazsan anlaşmayı bozarım !

Look, if you don´t do what I say,I will break the agreement !

 

7. indecisiveness

 

Bilmem söylesem mi, söylemesem mi?

shall I say or not, I really don´t know.

 

Ucuz mu satsam, pahalı mı?

shall I sell it cheap or expensive ?

 

8. Not to care, not to give an importance, ignore

 

Ne halin varsa gör !

Do what the hell you want ! [ i dont care]

 

Ders çalışsam ne olur çalışmasam ne olur.

What difference would that make, whether I study or not.

 

Ne yaparsan yap seninle ilgilenmiyorum.

Whatever you do, I don´t care.

 

9. wish

Keşke yarın hava güzel olsa.

I wish tomorrow the weather will be good.



Edited (9/25/2012) by tunci

Moha-ios, Henry, tomac and caliptrix liked this message
11.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Sep 2012 Tue 11:36 pm

Thank you for these examples, tunci. Many new things for me at least.

 

It often happens that the complicated grammar points which you hate in the beginning in the end become the most interesting ones.

12.       Abla
3648 posts
 02 Jan 2013 Wed 05:21 pm

Quote: tunci

Some functions of  the suffix -sA

 

Selim olsa, sabaha kadar uyumaz, düşünür dururdu. Ben olsam yatardım.

 

A little bit like Selim´e/bana gelince.

 

P.S. I changed the headline of this thread because it was fallacious in the first place.

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