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İMAM GAZALİ
1.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 12:20 pm

I honestly wish traders of religion would not quote pearls of wisdom from Imam Gazali, for it hurts me to be forced to talk against him, so many years after his death.

All Turks should derive a good lesson from his ill placed efforts on our higher education system, but perhaps try to let him sleep in peace.

I would strongly recommend all native Turks on this site to read the following academic paper (hard reading for non-Turks). When they understand what Gazali did to our universities-to-be, they will understand why he is not one of my favorite scholars.

There are many Gazalis around today and if we can really understand the original Gazali, we shall not fall into traps of his contemporary followers. 

http://sbe.erciyes.edu.tr/dergi/sayi_14/14_sanal.pdf

Note: It is not hard to check the corrrectnes of what is said in the paper, thanks to information available on internet. Such a research may lead to  his contemprary scholars who actually opposed Gazali´s feats, but lost in the political chaos. Those should have been the scholars to be quoted today.

 



Edited (6/20/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (6/20/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (6/20/2012) by AlphaF

2.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 03:09 pm

In order to understand Ghazali, we should read at least one of his works. His books are better source from what people tell about him. So you can decide yourself.

 

Multimedia about Ghazali:

Al-Ghazali´s Philosophical Theology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY-u_37SNz4

The Alchemy of Happiness (Documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyDOVC4BuIU

Hamza Yusuf - The Critical Importance of Al-Ghazali in Our Times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJezFjbn-6M


Ghazali Books in English:

http://www.ghazali.org/

Kimiya Ye Saadat:
http://www.maktabah.org/component/attachments/download/1140.html

3.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 03:34 pm

You obviously did not read the paper. Stay calm and read it before you write a reply.

Try to understand pls. No where in the paper does it say that Gazali was a bad man, a bad moslem, a bad teacher, a bad preacher, a bad writer ....or anything similar to defame him.

The objection is related to the revisions he made in the curriculum of Ottoman Medreses, where by all  courses related to natural or physical sciences were removed from teaching program. Objections were raised to his act even by scholars of his own time.

The time was Renaissance in the West - the age of enlightenment - for god´s sake..... and mathematics, medicine, physics, astronomy, philosophy, logic and all similar (non-islamic) sciences were removed from Ottoman Medreses. We were left with hadis, fıkıh and kelam (considered as islamic sciences). Not that the latter group was bad, but they were certainly insufficient to race with the West.

Read Gazali as much as you feel is necessary and understand him as deeply as you wish....but also remember what he did not allow you to read and how that affected our last 500 years.

 



Edited (6/20/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (6/20/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (6/20/2012) by AlphaF

4.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 04:22 pm

the article in the link is 20 pages and about ottoman education system. i will try to read it in my spare time. but your title is imam gazali, that is a different subject. so my post is about ghazali, not about old education systems.

ghazali lived long before ottomans, if ottomans misunderstood ghazali, that is their problem not ghazali´s. i read many books of ghazali and admire him.

5.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 05:36 pm

ottoman madrasas were mostly or purely religious but but there were not only madrasah type schools at that time. we cannot ignore the other type of schools.

 

"Over a century after the Ottomans westernized education of their military officer corps and following the Reform Edict of 1856, “individual students were sent to Europe and to France, in particular, for further education, while a school known as the Mekteb-i Sultani opened in Paris. At the same time work began within the country on the establishment of schools providing a modern type education. Of these, the most important was the Galatasaray Mekteb-i Sultani, later known as Galatasaray Lycee. This school, which has been described as the first window opened onto the West, has been the subject of a large number of studies.” Turkish secondary education was affected by the telegraph as well. “In 1861, the Funu-I Telgrafiye Mektebi (School of telegraphic science) was established, with a two year program for technical education in telegraphy” Later, Galatasaray and a high school for the poor and orphans launched courses in telegraphy. Between 1869 and 1923 a number of vocational “Technical Schools” were opened. Among these were a School of Finance (1876), a Civil Medical School (1877), School of Law (1878), School of Commerce (1882), a Civil Veterinary School (1889), a School for Vaccinators (1894), the Finance Officials School (191, the Tax Collectors School (1911), and a Railroad Officials School opened in (1915). None of these were considered of university caliber except for the Dar´ül fünun. The Dar´ül fünun which originally was built by Architect Fossati in 1854 became the first Ottoman University via an ordinance published in 1919."

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Higher_education_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

6.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 05:59 pm

 

ikicihan,

In his book "Tehafüt-ül Felasiye", Gazali argues a total rejection of philosophy.

Luckily, Ibn Rushd later wrote a reply to it (his book can be loosely called "Rejection of Rejection of Philosophy")  and saved philosophy from going into waste basket.

You might as well add these two books to your list.

 

7.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 20 Jun 2012 Wed 06:19 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

ikicihan,

In his book "Tehafüt-ül Felasiye", Gazali argues a total rejection of philosophy.

Luckily, Ibn Rushd later wrote a reply to it (his book can be loosely called "Rejection of Rejection of Philosophy")  and saved philosophy from going into waste basket.

You might as well add these two books to your list.

 

 

Ghazali rejected some part of philosofic ideas as most of the philosophers did, not all of philosophy. According to ghazali faith comes from revelation not from philosopy yet philosopy cotains right and wrong ideas mixed. He rejected the wrong ones according to logic and islamic teology.

 

The Incoherence of the Philosophers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incoherence_of_the_Philosophers

 

The Incoherence of the Philosophers by Imam Ghazali
http://www.ghazali.org/works/taf-eng.pdf

 

The Incoherence of the Incoherence by Ibn Rushd
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ir/tt/index.html

 

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