Gerunds

1. Linking Gerunds ; - Ip ,ip , up ,üp

These type of gerunds connects elements in the sentence.

Yemeğini yiyip gitti. ---> He ate his meal and gone.

Here, -ip suffix functions as "and" and conjoins two actions that happens one after another.

2. Gerunds of State ; - AraK,  -A   A

These type of gerunds describe the way of  action that is [has] happened.

- AraK

Cocuk ağlayarak odayı terketti. ---> The child left the room [by] crying.

Here, -arak works as "by", The child´s crying indicates the way of  his leaving room.

Çok çalışarak Türkçe´yi öğrendi. ---> He learnt Turkish by studying hard.

-A   A

Spor yapa yapa zayıfladılar  ---> They lost weight by physic exercising.

Here, - a ....-a   works as  by [doing]

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3. Time Gerunds ;

a. Starting time gerunds ; -Alı , DIğından beri

These type of gerunds indicates the "starting time" of an action that functions as "since"

Sen gideli buraların kalmadı ---> Here turned into an tasteless place since you´ve gone.

O zengin olalı ortalarda gözükmüyor ---> He doesnt show up since he became rich.

b. Monitoring time gerunds ; IncA, Ir  MAz, DI mI, DIğI zaman, DIğı sIrada, DIğInda

These type of gerunds work as "when", "as soon as " "at the time "

IncA

O gelince bana haber ver ---> Let me know when he/she comes.

Ir  MAz

O gelir gelmez bana haber ver ---> Let me know as soon as he comes[gets] home.

DIğI zaman

O , eve geldiği zaman bana haber ver ---> Let me know when he/she comes home.

DIğı sIrada

Misafirler geldiği sırada ders çalışıyordum ---> I was studying at the time when the guests came.

DIğInda

Misafirler geldiğinde ders çalışıyordum ---> I was studying when the guests came.

c. "before" time Gerunds ; -mAdAn önce

Gelmeden önce bana haber ver ---> Let me know before you come.

d. "after" time Gerunds ; - DIktan sonra

Okulu bitirdikten sonra ne yapacaksın ? ---> What will you do after you finish school?

e. "until" time Gerunds ; - Ana  kadar , IncAyA  kadar, Asıya kadar

- Ana  kadar

Parası bitene kadar alışveriş yaptı ---> she shopped until she run out of money.

IncAyA  kadar

Parası bitinceye kadar alışveriş yaptı ---> she shopped until she run out of money.

Asıya kadar

Parası bitesiye kadar alışveriş yaptı ---> she shopped until she run out of money.

f. "as","whenever", "as long as " Time Gerunds ; "DIkça ", " DIğı sürece"

"DIkça "

Pratik yaptıkça Türkçem ilerliyor ---> My Turkish is improving as I practice it.

" DIğı sürece"

Tembellik yaptığın sürece Türkçe öğrenemezsin -->  As long as you are being lazy , you can´t learn Turkish.

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4. Gerunds that express reason ; DIğı için, - DIğIndan,- Acağı için, mAk üzere,DIğına göre, Acağına göre

DIğı için

Türkçe konuşamadığı için çok üzgün ---> He is very upset because he can´t speak Turkish.

- DIğIndan

Türkçe konuşamadığından derdini anlatamıyor ---> Because [since] he cant speak Turkish He can´t explain his problem.

- Acağı için

Türkiye´ye gideceği için çok mutlu ---> He/she is very happy because he/she will go to Turkiye.

mAk üzere

İşe gitmek üzere arabaya bindi --> He got in the car to [in order to] go to work.

DIğına göre

Öğretmen geldiğine göre bugün ders olacak ---> Since the teacher came  , there will be class today.

Acağına göre

İyi bir işe gireceğine göre artık bir araba alır ---> Since he will get a good job , he would buy a  car.

5. Comparison Gerunds ; -Dığı kadar, AcAk kadar, -Dığı gibi , - cAsına

-Dığı kadar

Sepete elmaları aldığı kadar doldur ---> Put the apples into the basket as much as it [basket] can take.

AcAk kadar

- Okyanusta yüzecek kadar aptal değilim ---> I am not as that[much] stupid to swim in the ocean.

-Dığı gibi

Hayat masallarda olduğu gibi toz pembe değil ---> Life is not pink colour as in the tales.

- cAsına

Seni ölürcesine seviyorum ---> I love you to death.

6. Gerunds that express contrast --> -Acağına, - dIğI  halde, - mAsInA  rağmen, -mAktAnsA

-Acağına

Tişört alacağına pantalon al. ---> Buy a trouser instead of t-shirt.

- dIğI  halde

Yağmur yağdığı halde dışarı çıktık --> We went out in spite of  rain.

- mAsInA  rağmen

Yağmur yağmasına rağmen dışarı çıktık --> We went out in spite of  rain.

-mAktAnsA

Alışverişe gitmektense evde kalmayı yeğlerim ---> I prefer stay home rather than going for shopping.

A great job to collect them in one place. I remember this was one of the first shocks for a learner trying to discover the secrets of Turkish syntax. (Some progress has happened  -  this time I didn’t faint any more.)

A couple of questions/notes:

1. –Ip

Most of the time this structure seems to connect two actions with the same subject. I have accidentally come across a different example though. Is this normal use?

Orta Çağ kapanıp Yeni Çağ süreci başlamıştır.

2. –dIğI gibi

a) Onun yaptığı gibi yap. ‘Do the way he did.’

b) Annesi odaya girdiği gibi bebek ağlamayı bıraktı. ‘The baby stopped crying as soon as her mother entered the room.’

Two different meanings, two different structures (it shows in the form of the embedded subject GEN - NOM). The latter one is certainly a gerund but is the former also? In my opinion gerunds always have to do with time but maybe the Turkish definition is different.

si++ wrote about it here, post 50:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_50959_5

Btw, do not ever look at the “Gerund” article of Wikipedia. It is so bad.

Is it?

By the way, what is gerund? I thought it would be defined as:

A traditional grammatical term for a verbal that ends in -ing and functions as a noun.

That is called "isimfiil" in Turkish and corresponds to -ma/-me forms. What tunci is listing in this thread are called "zarffiil" in Turkish.

Yes, it is..

(but the sentence is not a good one.. the word "süreç" should be removed..) 

In English the nearest name to it is "Gerund", In French "gerondif,converbe" whereas in Turkish there are several names for it ; " Ulaç, Bağ-fiil, Bağ-eylem, Zarf Fiil".

They are verbals that functions as Adverbs in the sentence.

Your examples shows the forms that functions as adverbs. gerund definition says they function as a noun:

A traditional grammatical term for a verbal that ends in -ing and functions as a noun.

Your examples are "zarffill"s i.e forms that functions as adverbs.

I think your confusion comes from the similarity of gerunds and present participles (See the second item below):

• Gerunds and Verbal Nouns
  "A gerund is derived from a verb by adding the suffix -ing. The result is still a verb, and it exhibits ordinary verbal properties, such as taking objects and adverbs. Example: In football, deliberately tripping an opponent is a foul. Here the verb trip occurs in its gerund form tripping, but this tripping is still a verb: it takes the adverb deliberately and the object an opponent. However, the entire phrase deliberately tripping an opponent, because of the gerund within it, now functions as a noun phrase, in this case as the subject of the sentence. So, a gerund is still a verb, but the phrase built around it is nominal, not verbal.
  
  "Very different is a verbal noun constructed with -ing. Though derived from a verb, a verbal noun is strictly a noun, and it exhibits nominal properties . . .."
  (R.L. Trask, Mind the Gaffe! Harper, 2006)



• Gerunds and Present Participles
  "Present participles and gerunds look similar as words, and they also look similar as phrases. Again, it is the -ing verbal form that causes this problem. To clearly distinguish these, we need to consider their grammatical functions. A present participle functions as a non-finite form of a verb phrase, after verbs of motion and position; it can be an adverb complement after these verbs; it can qualify/modify as an adjective does. In contrast, gerunds like nouns have naming roles and can occupy the place of nouns in many of their grammatical functions. Unlike nouns, they do not name persons, places, things, or events; they name actions, states, and behaviors."
  (Bernard O´Dwyer, Modern English Structures: Form, Function, And Position, 2nd ed. Broadview, 2006)

a) Onun yaptığı gibi yap. ‘Do the way he did.’ Nasıl yap ? Onun yaptığı gibi --> adverb so dığı gibi is gerund.

b) Annesi odaya girdiği gibi bebek ağlamayı bıraktı. ‘The baby stopped crying as soon as her mother entered the room.’ --> Ne zaman ağlamayı bıraktı.? --> Annesi odaya girer girmez  therefore it is gerund too. 

note : gerunds like diği gibi can have more than one function.

Two different meanings, two different structures (it shows in the form of the embedded subject GEN - NOM). The latter one is certainly a gerund but is the former also?  --> They both Gerund [Ulaç] In my opinion gerunds always have to do with time but maybe the Turkish definition is different.

Gerund examples (I don´t think any of them functions as adverbs as in your examples):

• "Feeling gratitude and not expressing it is like wrapping a present and not giving it."
  (William A. Ward)



• "Shooting paintballs is not an art form."
  (Bart Simpson, The Simpsons)



• "Humor is laughing at what you haven´t got when you ought to have it."
  (Langston Hughes)



• "Because they are nounlike, we can think of gerunds as names. But rather than naming persons, places, things, events, and the like, as nouns generally do, gerunds, because they are verbs in form, name activities or behaviors or states of mind or states of being."
  (Martha Kolln and Robert Funk, Understanding English Grammar. Allyn & Bacon, 1998)



• "All talk of winning the people by appealing to their intelligence, of conquering them by impeccable syllogism, is so much moonshine."
  (H. L. Mencken)



• "Eighty percent of success is showing up."
  (Woody Allen)

Verbal is general name but Zarf fiil [ulaç] is subcategory of it that effect the time,state of verbs and it functions as Zarf [adverb]. That is why it can call as Gerund.

My understanding is that gerund is not "zarffiil". But you have a title wth "gerund" and are giving "zarffiil" examples.

I would like to be corrected by an English native speaker who knows the subject very well if my understanding is wrong. Anybody?

Ok. Let´s rename it then..What would your suggestion be Si++ ?

Is there any English grammar term that exactly fits to " Zarf Fiil " ? Or shall we just use Turkish name for it [ Ulaç or Zarf fiil ]?

It seems that our terms are all over the place now. Good. The worse the better.

I will have to dust my old Russian grammar books now because that´s where I met the term for the first time. I have a feeling they support the adverb view...but where does this duality in terminology root from?

I think there is an explanation for it in post #6 (last part).

There is also this in wikipedia page:

In the Molesworth books by Geoffrey Willans and Ronald Searle, Searle included a series of cartoons on the "private life of the gerund"^[3], intended to parody the linguistic snobbery of Latin teachers´ striving after strict grammatical correctness and the difficulty experienced by students in comprehending the construction.

"Converbial Suffixes "  or " Adverbial Suffixes"  are my suggestions.

Followings might help you in your search ;

1-      Деепричастия несоверишенного вида – Sürekli zarf-fiiler

You mean like...the Rolling Stones.

There is a counterpart for the English present participle in Turkish also and the one who has tried to translate relative clauses from E to T or vice versa has noticed that these forms pretty well correspond with each other...

                           Işleyen demir pas tutmaz.

...which is not the case with adverbials of time.

(What...shouldn´t it be işlenen demir?)

After I ve done some research ,I noticed that linguists and Turkologs call it as Gerundium [zarf-fiil]

Prof Dr. Muharrem Ergin and other linguists call them as "Gerundiums" and he says ;

´Gerundiumlar hareket hali ifade eden fiil şekilleridir. Bunlar ne fiil çekimleri gibi şekle, zamana ve şahsa bağlanmış bir hareket, ne de partisipler gibi nesne ifade ederler. Gerundiumlar şahsa ve zamana bağlanmayan mücerret bir hareket hali karşılarlar. Hal ve durum karşılayan kelimelere zarf diyoruz. Şu halde Gerundiumlar fiillerin zarf şekilleridir. a.g.e s.427´

I agree with you, hocam..

Gerund(ium) is zarffiil in Turkish grammar:

Faruk Kadri Demirtaş: "Gerundiumlar, fiillerin zarf şekilleridir.."1 

Muharrem Ergin: " Gerundiumlar hareket hali ifade eden fiil şekilleridir...gerundiuma da zarf fiil diyebiliriz...yani çekimli fiillerin fiil zarflarıdır." 2

Tahsin Banguoğlu: "Zarffiiller (gerundiumlar) fiilin zarf işleyişine girmek üzere aldığı şekillerdir." 3

1 Faruk K. Demirtaş, Eski Türkiye Türkçesi, s. 137.

2 Muharrem Ergin, Türk Dil Bilgisi (11. baskı, s. 338.

3 Tahsin Banguoğlu, Türkçenin Grameri, s. 427.  

After taking a closer look at the concept of gerund I feel like it is another forced exportation of Latin grammar into many languages. Whether its use brings anything useful to a language like Turkish I don’t know.

si++ brought up the definition of English gerund. It’s puzzling. The closest colleague of English gerunds seems to be the verbal noun –mA.

Russian gerunds can be used instead of subclauses. Interestingly, all the examples in my grammar book would be translated into Turkish with the structures tunci introduced in post 1, for example:

Интересуясь русским языком Джон решил изучить его. ’John decided to study Russian language because he was interested in it.’

Написав письмо, я пойду гулять. ’After writing the letter I will go for a walk.’

About Turkish gerunds I would say:

1. They are verb forms or postposition expressions of (often) time. They have various morphological forms.

2. They function as an adverbial in the clause. Maybe this is the most suited definition.

3. Their meaning equals with meanings of gerunds of some languages.

4. What Turkish and English “gerunds” maybe have in common is the ability of the verb form to take further modifiers. Otherwise their connection remains a mystery.

- mIş kadar

When this gerundium suffix comes to  the verb stem , it gives the meaning of "as if"

Sınavdan iyi not alınca, sınıfı geçmiş kadar sevindi.

When he got good point from the exam, he was as much happy as [ if ] he passed the class.

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It was only a good point that he got from the exam, there are still more exams to pass but he felt so happy as if he passed the [whole year] class.

And gerund seems to be "isimfiil" in English grammar.

And here´s how gerundivum is described in Latin itself:

Gerundivum

Gerundivum est modus verbi Linguae Latinae, accurate adiectivus verbalis passivus cuius significatio est aliquod debere facere, e.g dolor vix (non) ferendus aut labores non fugiendi. Nomen amanda sonat ergo "quae amari debet".

It could be understood as "sıfatfiil" in Turkish not "zarffiil".

- mAk yerine

Verb stem + mAk yerine    =====> Instead of

Bana öğüt vermek yerine kendi sorunlarını çöz.

Solve your own problems  instead of advising me.

[Deal with your own problems instead of preaching me.]

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Konuşmak yerine biraz da insanları dinlemeyi dene.

Try to listen to people abit instead of talking.

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But their equivalents are often zarffiil in Turkish:

he sat not moving - kımıldamadan oturdu

they came running - koşarak geldiler

Mary, leaning from the window, watched him - Mary, pencereden uzanarak, (onu) izledi

That´s why gerund is not isimfiil but zarffiil in Turkish grammar.. 

By the way the greatest authorities of the Turkish grammar call gerundium as zarffiil

-Anda

Verb stem + Anda ====> When

This form is used in folk songs and colloquial language especially it is a typical  gerundium of Azerbaijani dialect.

Aklıma sen gelende gönlümde çiçekler açar. ---->  My heart blossoms when you come to my mind.

We see this form in a nice folk song from Kerkük region ; it is called "Çakmağı çak"

çırağda yağ tükendi
ne yaman vakit tükendi
ne sennen bu güzellik
ne mennen ah tükendi

çakmağı çak
çırağı yandırmamışam
yarim için potin aldım
tekini yolda salmışam

çırağı yandıraydım
yol üste konduraydım
yarim bize gelende
heybesin endireydim

çırağım şule verdi
kölgesin güle verdi
neylerim yar men sennen
tez meni dile verdi

damda çırağ yandırır
manin görür söndürür
özü keyf sefada
meni dertten öldürür

and "Ersen ve Kardaşlar " in 70´s composed this folk song as their first 45´s. Enjoy the song 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNJspekCYi8

Well,

I suggest you start with reading identifying verbals for example. If you insinst then we can further talk.

Let´s forget about what they (i.e the greatest authorities of the Turkish grammar) call gerendivum. We are trying to sort out what gerund means in English language (The title is in English, right?).

I´ll copy the gerund part from the given link below:

Gerunds

A gerund is a verb form ending in -ing that functions in a sentence as a noun. Although both the present participle and the gerund are formed by adding -ing to a verb, note that the participle does the job of an adjective while the gerund does the job of a noun. Compare the verbals in these two sentences:

The children, crying and exhausted, were guided out of the collapsed mine.
Crying will not get you anywhere.

Whereas the participle crying modifies the subject in the first sentence, the gerund Crying is the subject of the second sentence.

It is in English but it is not about English.

It is impossible to create a grammar terminology which applies to every language in the world. For instance, we talk about Swedish or German auxiliaries, even Turkish auxiliaries even though we very well know they have very little in common with English auxiliaries. Grammar consists of continuums rather than strictly bordered units.

I believe transporting grammar terminology from one language to another has done damage to our understanding. Anyway, this is the way linguists at all times have struggled their way to more accurate definitions.

For some reason some grammarians have begun to use the term gerund in Turkish grammar denoting to the diverse group of adverb-like verb forms. And not only in Turkish as we saw in the Russian examples. I must admit I can’t quite understand why this happened. Probably for practical reasons. Practical reasons are as good as any. Words are agreements after all.

I think when you say "gerund" in English, you must stick to what it means in English, right?

I repeat: what they call "gerund" in English is called "isimfiil" in Turkish. That´s my understanding.

No.

So how do you define "gerund" in English? I have provided definitions and examples so far.

I would like to hear what definition you stick to.

When you put it this way I agree.

But you can use other definitions of gerund in other languages if you like. Even if you speak about them in English. In any academic dissertation pages and pages are used for defining the terms used in that particular work.

Don´t get me wrong, si++. All the way I have understood what you mean. And I have learned some things from this thread.

What other languages? There is no such word as "gerund" in Turkish. And we talk here in English.

Some people talk about Turkish gerunds and I can´t see they commit a sin by doing so if they explain what they mean. I´m sure you don´t accept the concept of Turkish auxiliaries either (we have discussed it) but the term is used and it is ok as long as it is well defined.

Come on, certainly you understand what I mean by speaking in a certain language and speaking about the system of a certain language. The latter is very much a question of agreement.

You are just trying to trip me up.

I just made a simple comment about gerunds (See post# 3) and then I was the one who was tried to trip up.

It wasn´t that easy. Maybe next time.

Distinguishing the three types of verbals takes a little practice, but is not very difficult if the following sequence of questions is used:

Look for gerunds first, then gerundives; if the verbal is not a gerund or gerundive, it has to be an infinitive.

Gerunds and gerundives are recognizable by their participial form (usually ending in "-ed" or "-ing"). 

If the participle functions as a noun, it is a gerund.

•  
  Subject: Skiing is fun.
  Direct Object: They like skiing.
  Object of Preposition: They were talking about skiing.
  
  
  
  

If the participle does not function as a noun, it has to be a gerundive. This means that the verb connects as an adjective to another word in the sentence. To find that word, you should ask a question with "Who is" or "What is."

•  
  Skiing for the first time, he fell and broke his ankle.

Who or what is skiing? According to this sentence, "he" is, so "skiing" modifies "he."

If the verbal is not a gerund or gerundive, it has to be an infinitive.

Infinitives can function as nouns, adjectives, or adverbs, and, as usual, the function is determined by finding the word that the infinitive chunks to.

     An infinitive can exist not only without the "to," but even without "appearing" at all. Consider the sentence:

They made Paul president.

It seems silly to say that "Paul" is the direct object of "made." The sentence does not mean that they made Paul. (God and Paul´s parents made Paul.) And obviously the sentence does not mean that they made president. Rather, the sentence means that they made Paul *to be* president. Native speakers of English would never put the "to be" in this sentence, but its existence below the surface is suggested by other, similar cases:

They chose Paul to be president.
They wanted Paul to be president.
They elected Paul to be president.

1. Verbals from Turkish point of view:

isim = noun

sıfat =adjective

zarf = adverb

fiil = verb

isim-fiil = (lit. noun verb) a verbal form that functions as a noun (Eng. gerund, infinitive)

sıfat-fiil = (lit. adjective verb) a verbal form that functions as an adjective (Eng. gerundive)

zarf-fiil = (lit. adverbverb) a verbal form that functions as an adverb (Eng. gerundive)

Turkish is very rich with many "zarf-fiil" forms. My grammar books has a chart with many names (suffixes/forms):

Zarffiil cümlesi (Arverbial clauses)

• Yanyana cümle (side by side clause) 

1. Ulama (-ip suffix)
2. Karşıtlama (-se de, -diği halde, -ecek yerde, -sizin)
3. Üsteleme (-diği gibi)

• Altalta cümle (One under another or one inside another clause)

1. Hal cümlesi (-erek suffix)
2. Zaman cümlesi (See below)
3. Sebep cümlesi (-diğinden, diği için, -eceklerinden, -eceği içn)
4. Karşılaştırma cümlesi (See below)
5. Sonuç cümlesi (-mekle, -eceğine göre)
6. Amaç cümlesi (-mek için, -meye)
7. Şart cümlesi (See below)

Zaman Cümlesi:

1. Sonralık cümlesi (-dikten sonra)
2. Öncelik cümlesi (-meden)
3. Bitim cümlesi (-ceye kadar/dek, -ene kadar/dek))
4. Başlangıç cümlesi (-eli, -dikten beri)
5. Eşzaman cümlesi (-diğinde, -diği zaman)
6. Vakitleme cümlesi (-dikçe, -diği sürece)
7. İzleme cümlesi (-ince, -diği zaman, -di mi, -er -mez)

Karşılaştırma cümlesi

1. Gerçek K. cümlesi (-diği gibi, -diği kadar, -eceği kadar)
2. Tutmaca K. cümlesi (-miş gibi, -miş kadar, -mişcesine)

Şart cümlesi

1. Olağan şart cümlesi (-diği takdirde, -mesi halinde)
2. Olmayası şart cümlesi (-diği takdirde, -mesi halinde)