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A \"t\" and \"d\" question
1.       trip
297 posts
 05 Oct 2012 Fri 10:23 am

Hi! Sorry, but I have a stupid question: Why is it öğreteyim, and not öğredeyim? This looked like a place to change a "t" to a "d," but obviously I am misunderstanding something. Or maybe I´m just tired.

2.       si++
3785 posts
 05 Oct 2012 Fri 10:39 am

 

Quoting trip

Hi! Sorry, but I have a stupid question: Why is it öğreteyim, and not öğredeyim? This looked like a place to change a "t" to a "d," but obviously I am misunderstanding something. Or maybe I´m just tired.

 

See this thread:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_7517

 

Read post#4.

 

Probably you confused with

gitmek : gideyim

 

öğre-t-mek : öğre-t-eyim

-t- is causative suffix and doesn´t change to anything.



Edited (10/5/2012) by si++

3.       Henry
2604 posts
 05 Oct 2012 Fri 10:59 am

 

Quoting trip

Hi! Sorry, but I have a stupid question: Why is it öğreteyim, and not öğredeyim? This looked like a place to change a "t" to a "d," but obviously I am misunderstanding something. Or maybe I´m just tired.

 

Hi Trip, no question is stupid if you are trying to learn.

öğretmek = to teach

öğreteyim = let me teach (optative, indicating a wish for something to happen)

The ´t´ to ´d´ mutation occurs mainly with nouns that have a suffix starting with a vowel added to the word. For example, kanat (wing), kanada (to the wing).

Verbal roots, with very few exceptions (et from etmek, and git from gitmek), do not undergo this change.

Ögretmek is a verb that does not mutate when a suffix starting with a vowel is added to the verb root. 

 

HaNNo liked this message
4.       trip
297 posts
 05 Oct 2012 Fri 11:14 am

Thank you for these explanations. I´m afraid the one about the causative voice is beyond me. (Sorry, si++) Henry´s is easier for me to understand. I guess I have done so many exercises with "gitmek" that I just thought the "t" to "d" change happened with any verb that looked like this. ... Just when I think I have something down, there is another new wrinkle! ... Teşekkürler!

5.       trip
297 posts
 11 Oct 2012 Thu 08:20 am

All right, time has passed and I have moved on to a new lesson. Tonight I am asked to put seyretmek into future tense in the third person plural. My choices are:

seyretecekler or seyredecekler

Guess which one I chose based on our lesson above?

Yes, I chose the wrong one! I chose seyretecekler.

How does one tell which verbs take the consonant change? Will this seem natural to me only when I am speaking these words? Help please.

 

 

 



Edited (10/11/2012) by trip

6.       Henry
2604 posts
 11 Oct 2012 Thu 09:34 am

 

Quoting trip

All right, time has passed and I have moved on to a new lesson. Tonight I am asked to put seyretmek into future tense in the third person plural. My choices are:

seyretecekler or seyredecekler

Guess which one I chose based on our lesson above?

Yes, I chose the wrong one! I chose seyretecekler.

How does one tell which verbs take the consonant change? Will this seem natural to me only when I am speaking these words? Help please.

 

 Ahh I knew this would come up eventually, but I didn´t mention it in my previous post, to keep it simple.

You have probably noticed some verbs in Turkish are constructed with two separate words, like yardım (help/aid/assistance) added to etmek (to do) becoming yardım etmek (to help)

Over time some Turkish verbs, based on Arabic/Persian? words + etmek, have mutated into single word verbs

For example, (thanks to a previous post on this site)

Af/Affı (forgiveness/pardon) + etmek (to do/make) became affetmek (to pardon/forgive)

affedersiniz (excuse me/pardon me)

His/Hissi (feeling/emotion) + etmek .... became hissetmek (to feel)

I think

Seyir/seyri (watching/looking at) + etmek ...... became seyretmek (to watch something)

So these words follow the same rules as etmek and mutate.

Sometimes you can recognise these mutating verbs due to their lack of vowel harmony within the verb.

Si++ or other Turks might be able to help explain further.



Edited (10/11/2012) by Henry [added more]
Edited (10/11/2012) by Henry

nemanjasrb and trip liked this message
7.       si++
3785 posts
 11 Oct 2012 Thu 05:11 pm

 

Quoting Henry

 

 

 Ahh I knew this would come up eventually, but I didn´t mention it in my previous post, to keep it simple.

You have probably noticed some verbs in Turkish are constructed with two separate words, like yardım (help/aid/assistance) added to etmek (to do) becoming yardım etmek (to help)

Over time some Turkish verbs, based on Arabic/Persian? words + etmek, have mutated into single word verbs

For example, (thanks to a previous post on this site)

Af/Affı (forgiveness/pardon) + etmek (to do/make) became affetmek (to pardon/forgive)

affedersiniz (excuse me/pardon me)

His/Hissi (feeling/emotion) + etmek .... became hissetmek (to feel)

I think

Seyir/seyri (watching/looking at) + etmek ...... became seyretmek (to watch something)

So these words follow the same rules as etmek and mutate.

Sometimes you can recognise these mutating verbs due to their lack of vowel harmony within the verb.

Si++ or other Turks might be able to help explain further.

 

Good job, Henry! I would also say similar things.

 

If the "etmek" verb is there there is a mutation and no mutationif it is a suffix there.

 

For example:

 

Göz etmek -> göz ed-en

Göze-t-mek -> göze-t-en

trip liked this message
8.       trip
297 posts
 11 Oct 2012 Thu 09:19 pm

So, to make sure I understand: If I see "etmek" as part of a compound verb, so to speak, there will be a mutation to "d," as there is for etmek itself. The trouble for me, as a beginner, is that I cannot always tell what is a compound and what involves a suffix. From our original case here, for example, it would be difficult for me to know that öğretmek is not a compound, just by looking. I guess I will just have to stumble along with this as I build my vocabulary. Thanks to you both. This was a good lesson. ... Teşekkürler!

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