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....the problem is that...
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190.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 10:40 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

Why on earth? (Unless the reason is political like someone suggested in the very beginning.)

 

Arabic orthography does not possibly do justice to Turkish. (I don´t know which language it does justice to.) There are examples of it in this thread.

 

Latin writing system is fine. Cyrillic would work quite well also but I know you people don´t like it so much...

 

i think in pragmatic way, use latin but know the previous one. when you go to a library and open a turkish book in old alphabet dont look at it as if it is chinese! that is all i ask for.

some turkic countries use latin and cyrillic together. even uygurs still use perso arabic letters. turks in iran use perso arabic and latin together...

i am talking against state policy again. but i am trying to find the best way.

191.       vona
150 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 04:34 pm

 

Quoting nevbahar

Türkçeden diğer dillere geçen sözcük sayısı

 

 

 

You are full of claims with zero evidence or proof to back any of it up. Have you ever wondered what are the Turkish words that passed to English and how many of them are in use now?

Except a very few of them all the Turkish loan words in English are out of use

Maybe you think they use Turkish loan words in everyday conversation:

Jack - Salaam, Mary, have good bairam

Mary - You too, Jack.. But what is this sword-like thing in your hand?

Jack - It´s yataghan!

Mary - This is first time I see it.. But I know the hat you wear, it´s kalpac, isn´t it?

Jack - Yeah, it´s kalpac.. this pink jelick you wear is so nice.

Mary - Thank you, Jack.. Your purple gaftan is nice too.

Jack - Reis effendi gifted it to me..I have good news..

Mary - Oh! Tell me!

Jack - I am to be binbashi in june!

Mary - I hope you´ll be pasha then.

Jack - It´s not that easy to become a pasha, dear.

Mary - Let´s say..mm.. kismet  

Jack - Oh my gosh! zaptiehs are coming!.

-pata pata pata pata pata-

Mary - Don´t pull me this way, jack, I want to run to the right!

192.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 05:22 pm

 

Quoting nevbahar

.

Türkçeden diğer dillere geçen sözcük sayısı

 

bir millet yabancı bir sözcüğü bünyesine katarken..yahu bu adamlarla aynı dinden değiliz... aynı dil ailesinden hiç değiliz.. ilerde torunlarımız bizi mezarlarımızda hortlata hortlata bu kelimeleri değiştirmeye kalkmasınlar diye oturup düşünmez...onlar düşünmese de bunları yapan torunlar her milletten çıkıyor...

türkçenin hali içler acısı{#emotions_dlg.satisfied_nod}.. türk eğitim sisteminin hali içler acısı..sen kalk arapça ve farsça kelimeler almış diye atalrını suçla..

 

This is a very valuable info nev.

Thanks for this

There is a book writen about this apperantly (http://www.idefix.com/kitap/turkce-verintiler-sozlugu-gunay-karaagac/tanim.asp?sid=BX6DGNHRSV1V858L93XN)

Most common words to English  I know are :

Humus -> humus

cacik -> cacik

mahir -> stud

doner-> doner

apart from those crimson (from kirmizi), kiosk, sofa, harem, horde, yogurt, salep, coffe are  all rumored as orginated from us.

 

 

 

 

193.       tunci
7149 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 07:12 pm

 

 

The negative influence of foreign language formations  is upsetting the syntax and vocabulary of Turkish Language especially in the recent years.  For instance ,

Calling  " Otel  Akasya " instead of  "Akasya  Oteli "  or  " The Marmara "  instead of " Marmara Oteli " becoming common nowadays. 

 

Foreing usages are spreading in daily language as well,  Such as ; " Kendine iyi bak " , we got this pattern from English. To be honest, I never heard my grandparents or my parents used that phrase.[Instead I heard them saying " Selametle" , ´Hoşçakalİ, " Allaha Emanet ol…etc..] 

 Since it is a borrowed-phrase [probably from Hollywood movies]. But , it is now became a common phrase. I also use this phrase all the time. I am not against it as it is already welcomed. However, I am against people who are unceasingly trying to adapt especially English words,patterns,phrases into Turkish Language.Those people should stop adoring English Language and get rid of their "inferiority complex".  

Batının diline değil ilimine özenmeliyiz.


 



Edited (1/12/2013) by tunci

ikicihan, vona and nemanjasrb liked this message
194.       trip
297 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 09:33 pm

Tunci, I have to tell you that your post reminds me of parts of "Kara Kitap," which I just finished. Pamuk writes about Western movies and how they start to change Turks´ speech patterns and behavior. But it seems to me, as an outsider, that perhaps he is saying that is not necessarily bad. That the world is getting smaller and that Turks need to be part of that. Not to be mannequins (sorry, French word) of the past buried in a dungeon beneath the streets of Istanbul. (His image, not mine.)

Sorry, not really my place to speak here. But I think it is so interesting that you all have this discussion. In the United States, we are so used to taking in others´ influences that it would never occur to us to talk about this. (Except perhaps on the very far right. But the far right never likes change of any sort.)

Quote: Tunci 

Since it is a borrowed-phrase [probably from Hollywood movies]. But , it is now became a common phrase. I also use this phrase all the time. I am not against it as it is already welcomed. However, I am against people who are unceasingly trying to adapt especially English words,patterns,phrases into Turkish Language.Those people should stop adoring English Language and get rid of their "inferiority complex".  



Edited (1/12/2013) by trip

195.       vona
150 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 09:35 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

This is a very valuable info nev.

Thanks for this

There is a book writen about this apperantly (http://www.idefix.com/kitap/turkce-verintiler-sozlugu-gunay-karaagac/tanim.asp?sid=BX6DGNHRSV1V858L93XN)

Most common words to English  I know are :

Humus -> humus

cacik -> cacik

mahir -> stud

doner-> doner

apart from those crimson (from kirmizi), kiosk, sofa, harem, horde, yogurt, salep, coffe are  all rumored as orginated from us.

 

She always gets great support from her enthusiasts.. Very appreciable..

May I suggest a new name for the thread: "saving the queen nevbahar" ? Smile

Anyway..

Remove the following words from the list:

Humus, mahir, crimson, harem, sofa, coffee ...these are Arabic

Cacık is either Iranian or Kurdish.

Döner, kiosk, salep, horde are okay.

4 words.. Good starting..

Go ahead. Try hard.

To save the Queen you have to make the number 470 Smile

196.       Aida krishan
92 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 09:42 pm

 

Quoting vona

May I suggest a new name for the thread: "saving the queen nevbahar "

 

I love this {#emotions_dlg.ty_ty}

Nevbahar is THE QUEEN OF TURKISH & she´ll always be...

LonsingerAmber liked this message
197.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 09:57 pm

 

Quoting Aida krishan

 

Quoting vona

May I suggest a new name for the thread: "saving the queen nevbahar "

 

I love this {#emotions_dlg.ty_ty}

Nevbahar is THE QUEEN OF TURKISH & she´ll always be...

 

Gokuyum,I made it again. And it happens whenever I quote our QUEEN OF TURKISH,or when someone says about her.. Try that.

nevbahar, gokuyum and Aida krishan liked this message
198.       tunci
7149 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 10:26 pm

 

Quoting trip

Tunci, I have to tell you that your post reminds me of parts of "Kara Kitap," which I just finished. Pamuk writes about Western movies and how they start to change Turks´ speech patterns and behavior. But it seems to me, as an outsider, that perhaps he is saying that is not necessarily bad. That the world is getting smaller and that Turks need to be part of that. Not to be mannequins (sorry, French word) of the past buried in a dungeon beneath the streets of Istanbul. (His image, not mine.)

Sorry, not really my place to speak here. But I think it is so interesting that you all have this discussion. In the United States, we are so used to taking in others´ influences that it would never occur to us to talk about this. (Except perhaps on the very far right. But the far right never likes change of any sort.)

 

 

 

Trip, I´ve never read "Kara Kitap" but Orhan Pamuk is not the only Turk in the world that everything he says or analyses has to be right. And Turkiye is not only Istanbul.  He can be a good writer but I don´t know about his views much. 

 

In the United States, we are so used to taking in others´ influences that it would never occur to us to talk about this.  You know why ? 

because in your country ;

 

in your major universities  the education language is English , right ? [Harvard, Yale…etc] not in Spanish or in other language. People learn History, Maths, Physics in English  not  in Spanish. 

 

ORTA DOĞU TEKNİK ÜNİVERSİTESİ
ÖĞRENCİ KABUL ve KAYIT İŞLERİ YÖNETMELİĞİ

 I. GENEL

Eğitim-Öğretim Düzeyleri:

Öğretim Dili: 
Madde 2. 

Orta Doğu Teknik Üniversitesinin lisans ve lisansüstü programlarında eğitim-öğretim dili İngilizce’dir. Ancak, Türkçe veya başka bir dilde yapılması zorunlu olan dersler Üniversite Senatosu tarafından belirlenir. 

   secondly, you don´t have much worry about English [or should I say American English ?] being influenced by other languages as you know well that English is  already most common language in international arena. Look , even in this website is teaching Turkish in English. [There had to be a common language to teach foreigners anyway] Therefore Americans don´t feel their language threatened.

 

thirdly, this might sound bit harsh sorry but you [American state] had always influencing policy [culturally] by using Hollywood movies over the rest of the world.

And finally,  " Turks need to be part of the world ´ , should  NOT necessarily  mean "Turks need to be Americanized" by copying their life-style,their phrases, words....etc.


 

 

 

 



Edited (1/12/2013) by tunci
Edited (1/12/2013) by tunci

trip liked this message
199.       nevbahar
78 posts
 12 Jan 2013 Sat 11:22 pm

ilahi vona{#emotions_dlg.lol}

ben tdk nın yalancısıyım valla... onlar saptırıyorlarsa bilemem..

http://twoguy.blogcu.com/turkce-den-baska-dillere-gecen-sozcukler/1811871

bu arada thehandsom un kulakları çınlasın.. bahsi geçen kitaplar aynı.. aslında vikipediadan son anda kopyalayıp yapıştırdım.. tablo şeklinde daha açık seçik gözüme hoş göründüğü için{#emotions_dlg.nuts}

şimdiye kadar söylediklerimi toparlayıp.. forumdan elimi eteğimi çekeyim diyorum.. anladığım kadarıyla türkçe yazmama şiddetli bir itirazın var..

 

 farklı dil ailelerine farklı kültürlere farklı dinlere mensup milletler de birbirlerinden sözcük alıp verirler.. nayırrr nolamazzz diyen varsa buyursun.. arapça sami dili ..farsça fransızca ingilizce hint avrupa sülalesinden .. ural altaygillere de bir itirazım yok.. gidip birkaç kelime koparıp gelelim diyeceğim de.. bu işler böyle yürümüyor ki ..

tasfiyecilik felakettir.. azı çoğu ortası yoktur.. hem kime göre neye göre hangi ölçüte göre arındırabilirsiniz  bir dili?zaten başta tam bir devrim yapılmış.. geri teptiği için yarı yoldan dönülmüştür..

bir ülkede ingilizce eğitim sabahtan akşama kadar pompalanıp duruyorsa.. dükkan dergi isimleri ingilizce olmağa başlamışsa.. türkçe şuuru yoksa.. istersen devlet kafasıyla on tane tdk işlet.. türkçeye beş kuruşluk faydan olmaz..

ingilizce tüm dünyayı kasırıp kavuruyor.. ama türkçenin başına gelenler pişmiş tavuğun başına gelmediği için.. ingilizce karşısındaki akıbeti ne olacak ben de  merak ediyorum..

arapça farsça sözcükleri cımbızlamakla traşlamakla türkçe gürleşmiyor maalesef.. lisanına sanatına mimarisine musikisine sahip çıkamayn bir millet.. hepsini geçtim.. istanbul un silüetine sahip çıkamayan bir millet.. hiç değilse rahatsız olmaya başladık yıkıp yeniden yapıcaz inşallah..lisanını koruyamayanın hiçbir şeyi olmuyor..

1900 lere falan gitmek istemiyorum ben.. derdim geçmişte yaşamak falan değil..derdim türkçenin geleceği tıpkı senin gibi bu milletin istikbali..yüz yıl sonra türkçenin dünyada gürlemesi.. başka ne isteyebilir ne arzu edebiliriz ki.. dil devriminiz hayırlı uğurlu olsunn da... yerine ne koydunuz kardeş diye sormazlar mı? ben soruyorum ne inşa ettiniz?..daha tamamlanmadıı.. az daha vakti var.. hep beraber inşallah demeyesin de..{#emotions_dlg.shame} şunlardan mahrum kalacaktınız.. de..bu güzellikleri yaşayamayacaktınız de...  ohh iyi ki yapmışız diyelim hep beraber.. çok samimi söylüyorum.. yeminle..

 

 

 



Edited (1/13/2013) by nevbahar

200.       trip
297 posts
 13 Jan 2013 Sun 12:12 am

Tunci, you will think this is odd, but I agree with you on nearly every point.

First, you are right, Pamuk is not the only Turk whose opinion matters. I am happy to hear yours and others´ opinions. Plus, Pamuk cares very much about preserving tradition and the past, whether it is Ottoman days or 1970s Istanbul. He is for a mixture of new and old, it seems to me. ... As for everything being taught in English in the United States, that is true, too. But many people here are worried that their children will not do well unless they know other languages. We once focused on French and Spanish and German. Now we have added Chinese. Can you guess why? Because we do not want the world to move on without us!

Second, it is true that we don´t worry about English being threatened. (Although, there was once a strong movement on the right in this country to make English the "official language" by law. Some were afraid immigrants would take over and make us all speak Spanish!) But I think Turks should not worry so much about their language. It is a beautiful language. Look at all of us who come here to learn it. And your culture is very beautiful, too. All of us here value it very much.

And finally, no, Turks do not need to be Americanized. But everyone in the world is adopting from other cultures. We take from you, and you take from us. This is the world today. And Turks have knowledge and culture to share with the rest of the world. Give us more Turkish!



Edited (1/13/2013) by trip

gokuyum and elenagabriela liked this message
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