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Inferential Past
1.       Abla
3647 posts
 15 Jan 2013 Tue 12:58 pm

According to the definition, -mIş means 1) past action and 2) hearsay.

 

In

 

                    Altı milyon Mısırlı mezarlıklarda yaşıyormuş

 

what happened in the past, the action or the hearsay? Can you use -mIş to mark an ongoing action being based on a second-hand knowledge acquired in the past?

 

(The example is a newspaper headline.)

lana- liked this message
2.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 15 Jan 2013 Tue 01:01 pm

 

Quoting Abla

According to the definition, -mIş means 1) past action and 2) hearsay.

 

In

 

                    Altı milyon Mısırlı mezarlıklarda yaşıyormuş

 

what happened in the past, the action or the hearsay? Can you use -mIş to mark an ongoing action being based on a second-hand knowledge acquired in the past?

 

(The example is a newspaper headline.)

 

simply yes.

3.       vona
150 posts
 16 Jan 2013 Wed 03:49 pm

 

Quoting Abla

According to the definition, -mIş means 1) past action and 2) hearsay.

 

In

 

                    Altı milyon Mısırlı mezarlıklarda yaşıyormuş

 

what happened in the past, the action or the hearsay? Can you use -mIş to mark an ongoing action being based on a second-hand knowledge acquired in the past?

 

(The example is a newspaper headline.)

 

Adding -muş (learned past tense) to a word which is already suffixed by -yor (continuous tense), as in the example above, mainly tells two things: (1) (-yor) the action is ongoing (2) (-muş the speaker´s knowledge about the action is second hand, and, as in your words, "acquired in the past."

The example is present ongoing action.

It can be past ongoing action as well.

How?

By adding a time adverb or a temporal adverbial..

Yirmi yıl önce altı milyon Mısırlı mezarlıklarda yaşıyormuş.

Adding "yirmi yıl önce" to the sentence, despite "yaşıyormuş" remains unchanged, makes the action past ongoing.

4.       Abla
3647 posts
 16 Jan 2013 Wed 04:39 pm

Interesting cooperation of tense and aspect. What if there is no sign of a continuous action, say,

 

                       Sık sık deniz kıyısında yürümüş tek başına.

 

Does he still have this habit or is it over and done with?

5.       vona
150 posts
 16 Jan 2013 Wed 06:38 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Interesting cooperation of tense and aspect. What if there is no sign of a continuous action, say,

 

                       Sık sık deniz kıyısında yürümüş tek başına.

 

Does he still have this habit or is it over and done with?

 

In the sentence, what makes it an habitual (continuous) action is the adverb sık sık. When you remove sık sık from the sentence, the verb "yürümüş" alone shows an action performed once only. So, in the sentence all the load of the habitual action is on the shoulders of the adverb sık sık, and learned past tense -müş makes the habit past. From this point of view it is a past habitual action and no more performed.

ulak liked this message
6.       Abla
3647 posts
 16 Jan 2013 Wed 07:58 pm

So maybe it is not very much wrong to say the time of the action is always in the scope of the time adverbial.

 

But  -  and this was my original problem  -  how do you express present tense inferential? (I understand the use of -mIş- for an ongoing action is limited anyway because it always attracts our attention to the past.) With lexical means, maybe with -mAlI?

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