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CANNONIZATION BY HUNDREDS
(22 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
[1] 2 3
1.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 May 2013 Wed 04:58 pm

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis on Sunday gave the Catholic Church new saints, including hundreds of 15th-century martyrs who were beheaded for refusing to convert to Islam, as he led his first canonization ceremony Sunday in a packed St. Peter´s Square. (note: we now have 830 new saints)


 


QUESTIONS


How did the new saints qualify for their exalted positions ? 


Did Turks have anything to do with this affair ?



Edited (5/22/2013) by AlphaF

2.       stumpy
638 posts
 22 May 2013 Wed 05:25 pm

Gedik Ahmed Pasha killed them for resisting and delaying the Ottoman advance wich permitted the ruler of Naples to strenghten his forces.

 



Edited (5/22/2013) by stumpy

3.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 23 May 2013 Thu 08:22 am

Correct !

Gedik Ahmet Paşa was out to remind the Pope a promise he had made to Mehmet II, but  never kept.

Mehmet II was poisoned at the early stages of the campaign and and Paşa had to be recalled, operation cancelled.

Those who died in the skirmish were actually paying for Pope´s (Vatican´s) lies. Forced conversion to İslam is not allowed in İslam.



Edited (5/23/2013) by AlphaF

4.       stumpy
638 posts
 23 May 2013 Thu 06:15 pm

They were not forced to convert, they were probably asked, "do you renounce your catholic faith?" they said non and then their heads were removed... no force there at all just the loss of one head.

Muslims have their matyrs and they do not need to justify them, why do catholics have to justify canonysing their martyrs?

5.       Abla
3648 posts
 23 May 2013 Thu 06:51 pm

Quote: stumpy

They were not forced to convert, they were probably asked, "do you renounce your catholic faith?" they said non and then their heads were removed... no force there at all just the loss of one head.

Muslims have their matyrs and they do not need to justify them, why do catholics have to justify canonysing their martyrs?

You are right, stumpy. The Pope does not need Muslims´ permission for that.

 

Catholic saints and Muslim martyrs are not the same thing. In the Islamic faith there can be no intercessor between Allah and his servant. If someone dies as a martyr it is a personal victory for him but it does not mean you can address your prayers to him. Many Sunni Muslims do not want to pray in a mosque where graves of righteous people are placed in order to avoid the mistake of raising a human being onto a level where he does not belong to.

 

The Islamic teachings of martyrdom are sweet and touching. Martyrs´ souls fly in Paradise free like birds and go to any place they wish. When martyrs are asked about the harsnesses they went through in this world they say: "We never experienced anything difficult." And when the Creator says they can wish for anything they want they first hesitate because they are so content. In the end they express their only wish: "Let us go back to the Earth and die for your sake once more."

 

It is the wish of every believer to die as a martyr. It does not only mean dying on battle field: a woman dying while giving birth, someone dying in a fire or getting drowned, people dying of certain diseases are also martyrs. The marks of their suffering are not washed from their corpses before they are buried.

6.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 23 May 2013 Thu 10:33 pm

You have too many saints. You declare everyone fought against Muslims and died saints. There is no end to it.

7.       stumpy
638 posts
 23 May 2013 Thu 11:39 pm

The only reason there are so many saints is to provide us with more names to use to swear, after a while useing the same saints names becomes redundant.

Mother Theresa was canonised and is now a Saint and she did not fight the Muslims

It was not the Pope Francis who said that the reason they were being canonised was because they oposed the Muslims, this was said by a "stupid" reporter who wanted to cause exactly what is happening, an uproar.

Those people took a stand against an invading force, I don´t care what they were, they could have been Martians for all I care.  So Ottoman forces were at war against the forces of Naples and thus there were casualties.

Now lets turn it around, if it were Ottomans who had been beheaded for upholding their faith and not converting to catholisism how would it have been remebered??

All religions are guilty of atrouceties in the name of their religion. 

So if we want to canonise a few martyrs it´s our perogative... I figure after being staked, burned, drawn and quartered, fed to the lions or what other stupid unimaginable torture because we upheld our religion, we can have as many saints as we want.

Why is it ok for a muslim to be proud and uphold their religion but it is not ok for christians?

 

8.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 24 May 2013 Fri 09:06 am

Copy & paste is OK.....saves time !

9.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 24 May 2013 Fri 09:58 am

There must be a difference between a saint and a martyr. As far as I know a saint performs some kind of a miracle like stigmata. If you think it is a miracle standing against Ottomans, then I have no objection

10.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 24 May 2013 Fri 10:53 am

 

Quoting stumpy

The only reason there are so many saints is to provide us with more names to use to swear, after a while useing the same saints names becomes redundant.

Mother Theresa was canonised and is now a Saint and she did not fight the Muslims

It was not the Pope Francis who said that the reason they were being canonised was because they oposed the Muslims, this was said by a "stupid" reporter who wanted to cause exactly what is happening, an uproar.

Those people took a stand against an invading force, I don´t care what they were, they could have been Martians for all I care.  So Ottoman forces were at war against the forces of Naples and thus there were casualties.

Now lets turn it around, if it were Ottomans who had been beheaded for upholding their faith and not converting to catholisism how would it have been remebered??

All religions are guilty of atrouceties in the name of their religion. 

So if we want to canonise a few martyrs it´s our perogative... I figure after being staked, burned, drawn and quartered, fed to the lions or what other stupid unimaginable torture because we upheld our religion, we can have as many saints as we want.

Why is it ok for a muslim to be proud and uphold their religion but it is not ok for christians?

 

 

Catholic Pope sold the Orthodox Christians of Byzantium to the mercy Ottoman Turks.

He did not move a finger to save the Orthodox population; in fact he provided technical assistance to Ottomans in construction of Rumelihisar - to bar free passage through the Bosphorus - and a devout Catholic Mr. Urban was assigned to produce the largest cannons of its time, for use by Mehmed II armies.

Mehmed II did eventually conquer Istanbul (he had to, to be able to set up the Empire he dreamed), but did not massacre the ortjhodox population of the city as the Pope expected. Mehmet spared the city and its population, because he now considered himself to be not only the Ottoman Sultan, but also the rightful owner of East Roman Empire throne.

Pope was disappointed. Despite previous promises that Mehmet II would be recognized, by Vatican as the East Roman Emperor, the Pope forgot his promises.

Ottoman Armies were ordered to teach the Pope a lesson. Unaware Italians, now made saints, faced Ottomans to protect their Pope and lost their lives.

Mehmet was poisoned in his own palace by unknown (!) advesaries.  Military operation into Italy was cancelled.

Vatican is now paying a historical debt !

 

 

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