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Consonant harmony
1.       trip
297 posts
 25 Aug 2013 Sun 10:12 am

Merhaba! I am back with a dumb question, so please bear with me. As I understand consonant harmony, if a word ends in a hard consonant and you add "-de" or "-den" (or one of their variants), they become "-te" or "-ten." In a writing execise, I said: "Bazen yoğurtta meyve koyarım." I realize this sentence probably has other problems, but I was told that I should have said "yoğurda." I admit that "yoğurtta" looked funny to me, but can someone explain why the "t" changes to a "d," please? I obviously have misunderstood a lesson somewhere along the way. ... Teşekkür ederim!

 

2.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 25 Aug 2013 Sun 10:43 am

 

Quoting trip

Merhaba! I am back with a dumb question, so please bear with me. As I understand consonant harmony, if a word ends in a hard consonant and you add "-de" or "-den" (or one of their variants), they become "-te" or "-ten." In a writing execise, I said: "Bazen yoğurtta meyve koyarım." I realize this sentence probably has other problems, but I was told that I should have said "yoğurda." I admit that "yoğurtta" looked funny to me, but can someone explain why the "t" changes to a "d," please? I obviously have misunderstood a lesson somewhere along the way. ... Teşekkür ederim!

 

 

You should know these:

1. If a word ends with f, s, t, k, ç, ş, h, p has a suffix starts with c, d, g these c, d, g harden and become ç, t, k. 

2. If a word ends with p, ç, t, k has a suffix starts with a vowel these p, ç, t, k soften and become b, c, d, ğ.

3.       Henry
2604 posts
 25 Aug 2013 Sun 11:28 am

I´m guessing that maybe another problem comes from thinking differently.

Turks think of putting (koymak) something to something else

Bardak masaya koydum (I put the glass to the table)

English speakers think of putting something on/in something else

yoğurt + a = yoğurda = to the yogurt

trip, MarioninTurkey and HaNNo liked this message
4.       irishrose
22 posts
 27 Aug 2013 Tue 12:08 am

For the second rule, my Turkish teacher called this rule, "Ketchup" to help us Americans remember it.

 

2. If a word ends with p, ç, t, k has a suffix starts with a vowel these p, ç, t, k soften and become b, c, d, ğ.

Here´s a useful write up,

Linkage and consonant harmony

Several more phenomena need to be understood from the beginning. They are complications, but are almost always regular. One is voicing assimilation: the voiced stop d in a suffix becomes voiceless t immediately after a voiceless consonant p t k ç f s ş h. So kitap book gives kitapta in the book and kitaptır it is a book, and çocuk child gives çocuktan from the child, and genç young gives gençtir s/he is young.

The second is related to this. As with many languages, you can´t get voiced stops b d g c at the end of a word: they become voiceless p t k ç (kitap is from Arabic kitâb). But when a vowel suffix is added, they change to the voiced forms. So with the genitive case ending, we get kitabın of the book and gencin of the young one. With k the change is not to its ordinary voiced equivalent g but the soft (and now silent) ğ, as in çocuğun of the child.

Thirdly, Turkish does not like two vowels to come together, so when a vowel-initial suffix is attached to a vowel-final word, a consonant is interposed. Which one depends on the ending: the genitive in ~ ın ~ ün ~ un takes -n-, as in kuyunun of the well, kedinin of the cat. The dative e ~ a and the accusative i ~ ı ~ ü ~ u take -y-, as in kediye to the cat. The third person possessive is the same as the accusative after a consonant, but has the interposed consonant -s- after a vowel: yolu gördüm I saw the village, yolu her/his/its village, but kuyuyu gördüm I saw the well, kuyusu her/his/its well.

With other suffixes the form after a vowel is shorter than that after a consonant: such as the possessive, -m in kuyum my well and with an extra vowel in çocuğum my child.

5.       Gölge
posts
 31 Aug 2013 Sat 12:04 am

We learned that the d becomes t (and others such as c becoming ç too, but just answering your question) after ´t kofschipş

 

Since ´r´ is not in ´t kofschip ş, your locative d (de/da) should stay a d If it was for example, mutfak + locative da, it WOULD be mutfakta, and the d would become t, since k is in the list. 



Edited (8/31/2013) by 0

6.       Turkish2412
259 posts
 31 Aug 2013 Sat 12:20 am

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/conmut.htm



Edited (8/31/2013) by Turkish2412
Edited (8/31/2013) by Turkish2412

7.       trip
297 posts
 25 Sep 2013 Wed 10:51 am

Quote: Henry

I´m guessing that maybe another problem comes from thinking differently.

Turks think of putting (koymak) something to something else

Bardak masaya koydum (I put the glass to the table)

English speakers think of putting something on/in something else

yoğurt + a = yoğurda = to the yogurt

Merhaba! Sorry, I have been away, but I have read back through this thread, and I think Henry is exactly right about the problem. I thought I was being corrected about consonant harmony, but it was really that I was using the wrong "preposition" with "koymak." ... Teşekkürler!

8.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 25 Sep 2013 Wed 11:03 am

 

Quoting trip

Merhaba! I am back with a dumb question, so please bear with me. As I understand consonant harmony, if a word ends in a hard consonant and you add "-de" or "-den" (or one of their variants), they become "-te" or "-ten." In a writing execise, I said: "Bazen yoğurtta meyve koyarım." I realize this sentence probably has other problems, but I was told that I should have said "yoğurda." I admit that "yoğurtta" looked funny to me, but can someone explain why the "t" changes to a "d," please? I obviously have misunderstood a lesson somewhere along the way. ... Teşekkür ederim!

 

 

"yoğurda" and "yoğurtta" are two different words with different meanings.

 

YOĞURDA........to the yoğurt

YOĞURTTA...... in the yoğurt

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