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You have a murderer in your tribe!
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1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 02:32 pm

Shall I tell you the truth?

I don´t always want to write about ´Armenians´
Because it is a state of being unhealthy
It is making readers tired as well the writer
I want to say "I know there are some other things in life"
Different things
Ordinary people´s lives.
other politics, other lives, other truths..
But I can not do it in these days..Please understand
Hrant Dink trial has started and again, we should look not tired.
We have start going to the courts again
We should show ourselves straight in TVs and ask for justice.
We have to make strong noises for the memory of our brother Hrant Dink who was taken away from us, as if 7 years did not pass, as if we were not ridiculed, as if we are not worried about our lives.
As Markar said we have to be ´the truth tellers´
What is the truth?
We were the guest in SKY360 channel in Hilmi Hacaloğlu´s program
Me, Ismail Sayma from Radikal and two more guests
We were going to talk about the details of restart of the Dink´s murder case which was returned back for retrial from the supreme court
we talked
Normally two different opinions are discussed in these type of program
But what can those two opinions  be in this murder?
are there two different sides of this murder in which  the state with all its establishments has taken part?
There was apparently.
There were your police, their gendarme, others intelligence officer, apparently.
No body could stop the murderer who run away by shouting ´I have killed and Armenian´ but because of the conjuncture, there are some unhappy people today. That is what I was told.
Shall I tell you the truth.
This is a murder with national agreement
There is nothing to be silent, do tell.
You have a murderer in your tribe
The climate who murdered Hrant is our latest result.
This is our routine
The picture we see after 7 years of this murder is our towns secret.
Murderers are ´our boys´
You have to understand them
They have nationalistic and  conservative  sensitivities.
They can kill because of that sensitivity
Shall I tell you the truth
Down with your sensitivities (I wish your sensitivities go to the bottom of earth)
We are being killed.
sensitivity is ours.
we are tired.
silence is yours.
Some are looking at the life from the side of murderers and some from the murdered.
Some are "sensitive" some are "dead" on this land.
You have a murderer in your tribe.
Say ´NO´.
Say ´that is enough´.
If you ask me we have two sentences
can we talk about this?
Ismail saymaz is under heavy threat since he explained all these.
Don´t be the part of that great silence.
do tell.
did not you say that the truth would make us free?
Then why are we feeling  trapped in a much bigger desperation?
Shall I tell you the truth? with each day in trial you are making the circle bigger, the circle which we united to break
In fact you are doing this with a bigger silence.
But don´t forget, you are making a case of a tyrant nation nor the wounds are healing as long as you are silent and you turn blind eye.
Shall I tell you the truth?
You have a murderer in your tribe!

 

This is a straight translation of a column:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/hayko-bagdat/makale-gercegi-soyleyeyim-mi.htm

The writer is Hayko Bagdat. An Armenian, living in Istanbul.



Edited (9/21/2013) by thehandsom

2.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 04:37 pm

you have many murderers in your tribe

 

 

So what does this trip on the "way back" machine mean to me as a law enforcement officer today? Flash forward to Jan. 27, 1973, when Los Angeles Turkish Counsel General, Mehmet Baydar, and his Deputy, Bahadir Demir, are murdered in a Santa Barbara hotel by Gourgen Yanikian. This is the first of a decades-long chain of attacks, bombings, and assassinations perpetrated by an organization calling itself Justice Commandos Against Armenian Genocide (JCAG).

These attacks have occurred in Vienna, Austria; Paris, France; Zurich, Switzerland; Istanbul, Turkey; Rome, Italy; Madrid, Spain; and The Hague in the Netherlands.  But more pertinent to you, a car bombing occurred in 1980 at the United Nations Plaza in New York. In Los Angeles, a Turkish travel agency was bombed.

In June 1981, a bomb exploded at the Orange County Convention Center in Anaheim, Calif., and in November of that year the Beverly Hills Turkish Consulate was bombed.  Turkish Consul General Kemal Arikan was shot to death at a stop light in Los Angeles on Jan. 28, 1982. New England´s honorary Turkish Consul General Orhan Gunduz was shot in Somerville, Mass., in May of 1982.

In 1982, the JCAG hit Lisbon, Portugal, in June; Ottawa, Canada, in August; Bulgaria in September; and Belgrade, Yugoslavia, in March of 1983. These attacks continue to this day.

You may be tempted to ask, are these mentioned attacks the acts of politically motivated international terrorists?

The answer is yes and no. In the Armenian underground community, the lines between criminal gangs, organized crime groups, and terrorists (or vigilantes) are not always clear. There´s generally a fierce pride and desire to bring their people´s persecution and genocide to the world´s attention, and to punish the perpetrators of the horrific war crimes committed against them. Even the organized crime groups and criminal gangs are influenced by this history.

In 1994, a federal task force in Los Angeles covertly monitored meetings ordered by the Mexican Mafia leadership. These meetings involved representatives appointed from hundreds of street gangs under an alliance called Sur (Spanish for south) or Sureño (Spanish for southerner). This Sur or Sur13 alliance began in prison for Latino gangs loyal to the Mexican Mafia and opposed to Norteños (Spanish for northerners) who were loyal to the Nuestra Familia prison gang.

From 1992 to 1993, Mexican Mafia member Peter "Sana" Ojeda began calling for meetings in El Salvador Park in Orange County, Calif. Los Angeles Mexican Mafia members soon required meetings for Los Angeles gangs. Since these meetings would inevitably include members from rival gangs, conditions to attend mandated no drinking or drug use and that those attendees not be armed.

Armenian Power (AP-13) gang members, although not Latinos, were part of the Sureño alliance and attended these meetings. At one such meeting in a Los Angeles park, an AP-13 gang member was obviously drunk. Dressed like a traditional Mexican American cholo, he had a large pistol tucked into the front of his oversized khakis. Ernest "Chuco" Castro confronted this AP-13 member for ignoring the meeting regulations. When the AP member bristled at the scolding, "Chuco" backhanded him and simultaneously plucked the weapon from his waistband. We would later recover that weapon in a search warrant. It was a fully loaded MAC-11 submachine gun.

In Los Angeles, the Armenian Power street gang was linked not only to the Sureño alliance and the Mexican Mafia prison gang, but also to their elders in the Armenian organized crime groups. Their criminal activity was centered around the cities of Glendale, Burbank, and Hollywood. The AP also had alliances with the Italian and Russian organized crime groups. They often victimized members of their own community, and supported the radical politically motivated acts of groups such as the JCAG. This was much like the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang´s support for Sinn Fein, the Irish Republican Army´s terrorist cell.

Mexican Mafia defector Gerald "Bouncer" Fernandez, who operated in the San Fernando Valley, bragged to me that his whole crew was made up of Armenians. He said that his stepfather was Armenian and had introduced Bouncer to the AP. He said that most of them also had organized crime connections. This organized crime access meant that his crew became involved in more sophisticated crimes such as identity theft, extortion, heavy weapons trafficking, and black and gray market trafficking in stolen vehicles.

On Feb. 16, the U.S. Attorney´s Office in Los Angeles announced that federal indictments were filed against the Armenian Power Transnational Organized Crime Group. A total of 99 defendants were charged with a wide range of crimes including kidnapping, extortion, bank fraud, and narcotics trafficking. Seventy were charged under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization (RICO) statutes. In one scam alone, more than $2 million was stolen by AP in the installation of sophisticated credit card "skimming" devices at 99 Cent Only Stores. A second indictment charged 20 defendants in Orange County.   

The Los Angeles Eurasian Organized Crime Task Force that included federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies called this "Operation Power Outage." Dozens of additional defendants were being sought in Miami and Denver. During this two-year investigation, AP was found to have ties to Russian and African American gangs also.

This indictment may also be important to you if you work custody or in a state or federal prison, because the AP is flexing its muscles there. With its ties to international drug and weapons traffickers, and organized crime groups around the world, the AP organization is forming power groups or security threat groups in the nation´s jails and prisons. Some of the defendants in this case were found in possession of contraband cell phones in custody continuing their criminal business.

 

http://www.policemag.com/blog/gangs/story/2011/03/armenian-power.aspx

 

Armenians outraged upon survors. They scalped, cut people´s head and other organs off, extracted eyes of children, choped stomaches of pregnant women. Forbidden bullets of 5,45 calibre and chemical weapons were used in Khojaly during the attack. All these facts prove that Armenia commited genocide against civil people, violating Geneva convention protokhol concerning war rules.

http://azerbaijan.az/portal/Karabakh/Genocide/genocide_e.html

 

Thief in law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A thief in law (Russian: вор в законе vor v zakonye; Ukrainian: злодій у законі zlodiy u zakoni; Belarusian: злодзей у законе zlodzey u zakone; Georgian: კანონიერი ქურდი kanonieri kurdi; Armenian: օրենքով գող orenk´ov goğ; Azerbaijani: Qanuni oğru) in the Soviet Union, the post-Soviet states and respective diasporas abroad is a specifically granted informal status of a professional criminal who enjoys elite position within the organized crime environment and employs informal authority over its lower-status members. Each new Vor is vetted (literally "crowned", with respective rituals and tattoos) by consensus of several Vors. Vor culture is inseparable with prison organized crime: only repetitively jailed convicts are eligible for a Vor status.[1] Thieves in law are drawn from many nationalities from a number of post-Soviet states.[1]Although Armenia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, Georgia, Russia and Ukraine have long had criminals and bandits, during the disorder of the Russian Revolution of 1917, armed gangs proliferated until they became a very significant factor which controlled society. The criminal culture with its own slang, culture and laws became known as Vorovskoy Mir

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law

 

 

Azerbaijanis were exposed to massacres many times in twentieth century. During March Days in 1918 12,000 Azerbaijanis were massacred by Bolsheviks and Armenians. According to the Memorial Human Rights Center, Human Rights Watch and other international observers,[45][46] Azerbaijani citizens, including women and children, were massacred by ethnic Armenian armed forces, reportedly with help of the Russian 366th Motor Rifle Regiment during the Khojaly Massacre.[47] The Khojaly Massacre was described by Human Rights Watch as "the largest massacre to date in the conflict" over Nagorno-Karabakh.[48] Memorial, the Moscow-based human rights group, stated in their report that the mass killing of civilians in Khojaly could not be justified under any circumstances and that actions of Armenian militants were in gross violation of a number of basic international human rights conventions.[49][50]

 

Massacres against Turks and Muslims during the Balkan Wars in the hands of Bulgarians, Greeks and Armenians are described in detail in the 1912 Carnegie Endowment report.[75] Hupchick estimates that nearly 1,5 million Muslims died and 400,000 became refugees as a result of the Balkan Wars.[76] The Bulgarian violence during the Balkan War included burning of villages, transforming mosques into churches, rape of women and mutilation of bodies. It is estimated that 220,000 Pomaks were forcefully Christianized and forbidden to bear Islamic religious clothing.[77]

 

In response to the Armenian Genocide, many Muslims (Turkish and Kurdish) were killed by Russians and Armenians in eastern Anatolia (including Bayburt, Bitlis, Erzincan, Erzurum, Kars and Mus),[40][41] and by Greeks in western Anatolia (including Izmir, Manisa and Usak).[42]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Azerbaijan

 

Kafkasya´da Ermeniler tarafından Türkler ve Kürtlere katliamlar yapılmıştır. Justin McCarthy, bunun sebebinin Ermenilerin bir Ermenistan devleti sınırları içine dahil etmek istedikleri Vilâyat-ı Sitte´de nüfuslarının %19 (Ermeni kaynaklarına göre %39) gibi küçük bir oranda olması ve bu nüfusun oranını arttırmanın yolunun bölgedeki Müslüman sayısını azaltmaktan geçmesi olduğunu öne sürmüştür.[57][86]

Ovanes Kaçaznuni, 1905 ve 1906 yıllarında Müslümanlar ile Ermeniler arasında kanlı olayların yaşandığını belirtmektedir. 1914 yılında ise, Ermeni birliklerinin Türklere karşı faaliyetlerini başlattıklarını söylemektedir.[87] 1915 yılında Van´ın Ermeni valisi olan Aram´a Rus bir komutan bölgedeki Kürtlerin öldürülmesini emreden bir emir gönderildi; fakat Aram emrin uygulanmayacağını belirtti.[88][89]

Osmanlı arşivleri 1910-1922 yılları arasında 523,000 Türkün Ermeniler tarafından öldürüldüğünü belirtmektedir.[90] Hüdavendigar Onur´a göre, 1914-1918 yılları arasındaki olaylarda, Ermeniler sebebiyle sayısı 2.5 ile 3 milyon arasında değişen Müslüman nüfus hayatını kaybetmiştir.[91] Fransa Dışişleri Bakanlığı´ndan Rusya´nın Paris büyükelçiliğine gönderilen 14 Mayıs 1915 tarihli bir yazıda, Van İsyanı sırasında bölgede yaklaşık 6000 Müslümanın öldürüldüğü belirtilmektedir.[92][93] Rus bir general, Ermeniler tarafından Müslümanlara karşı tecavüzlerin de gerçekleştirildiğini söylemiştir.[94] 19 Ağustos 1915´te dönemin Avusturya büyükelçisi "Ermeniler tarafından Türklere karşı yapılan büyük ölçekte katliamlar"dan bahsetti; ama hem Türkler hem de Ermenilerin katliam yaptığını ve olayların kimin tarafından başlatılığının belli olmadığını belirtti.[95][96]

1916 yılında bölgeye işgal etmekte olan Rus orduları, 16 Şubat günü Erzurum[97] ve 11 Temmuz günü Erzincan´ı[98] ele geçirdi. Türkler ise Erzincan´ı 13 Şubat 1918,[99] Erzurum´u 12 Mart 1918 tarihinde geri aldı.[100]

Rus Yarbay Tverdohlebof, 1917 yılı ilkbaharında Ermenilerin halkın elindeki silahları toplamak amacıyla halka zulmettiğini ve işkence yaptığını belirtmiştir.[101] Daha sonra, Rus ordusu çekildikçe katliamlar artmaya başladı.[101] 1918´de Erzincan´da Ermeniler 800 Türk sivili öldürdü.[102] Ermeniler Erzurum´a çekilirken yoldaki Türk köylerindeki halkı öldürdüler.[103] Ilıca´da Ermenilerden kaçamayan Türkler öldürüldü.[103] Tepeköy´ün tüm Müslümanları 17 Şubat 1918 tarihinde öldürüldü.[104] Tepeköy´de öldürülen Türklerin cesetleri 2010´da Atatürk Üniversitesi´nin yaptığı kazılarda bulundu ve sayıları 150 olarak tespit edildi.[105] 26 Şubat 1918 günü Tekederesi´nden çekilen Ermeniler yolları üzerine çıkan Müslümanları oldürdü, önlerine çıkan köylerdeki halkın hayvanlarını çaldı.[106] 27 Şubat 1918 günü Ermeniler Erzurum´un Alaca köyünde Türkleri öldürdü.[107] Erzurum´da Türk çarşıları Ermeniler tarafından yakılmaya başlandı.[107] 26-27 Şubat 1918 gecesi Ermeniler Erzurum´da 3000[108] ila 8000[109][110] Müslümanı öldürdü.[108] Rus Yarbay Tverdohlebof, Şubat 1918 sonlarında Erzurum´a yakın köylerdeki Türklerin "ortadan kaybolduklarını" bildirmektedir.[111] Aralık 1918´de Uluhanlı, Kamerli ve Dereleyez halkı Ermenilerin zulmüne uğradı.[112][113][114] Mayıs 1918´de bölgeyi ele geçiren Osmanlı ordusu Ermenilerin 250 Müslüman köyünü yaktıklarını bildirdi.[115]

1919 yılının temmuz ayında, İngiliz Yarbay Albert Rawlinson, İstanbul´daki İngiliz Genel Karargahı´na gönderdiği telgrafta, Ermenilerin Oltu´dan Bayezid hududuna kadar katliam yaptıklarını belirtmiştir.[6][116] 16 Temmuz 1919 tarihli bir Osmanlı belgesi, Ermenilerin Şarur ve Nahçıvan bölgesinde Müslümanlara saldırıp öldürdüklerini, Şarur halkını Aras nehrine döktüklerini ve kırk beş köye saldırdıklarını bildirmektedir.[117] Bu katliamlara karşılık 11. Kafkas Tümeni bölgeye sevk edilip 600 kişiden oluşan Ermeni çeteleri Osmanlılar tarafından mağlup edilmiştir.[118] Ermeni Yarbay Melik Şahnazarov´un bir Ermeni tümeninde raporunda, 30 kadar Türk köyünü ele geçirip sakinlerini öldürdüğünü ve köyleri yağmaladığını, 29 diğer Türk köyüne de saldırmak için izin istediğini belirtmektedir.[88][119] 1920 yılında, bir Ermeni subayı, yazdığı raporda Basar-Geçar´daki Türk nüfusunu ayırt etmeden öldürdüğünü bildirmektedir.[120][88] 1920 yılının içerisinde, Kars´taki köylerde Türk ve Kürt nüfusu öldürülmüş, köyler yağmalanmıştır.[88] 4 Aralık 1920 tarihli bir Osmanlı belgesi, Ermenilerin Sarıkamış´a bağlı on üç köyde katliam yaptıklarını, bu kapsamda 1975 kişiyi öldürüp 276 hanenin tahrip edildiğini belirtmektedir.[121][122] Ahmet Esat Uras, Ermenilerin "erkek, kadın ve çocuk ayrımı yapmadan yaptıkları" katliamların Rus kayıtlarında yer aldığını belritmektedir.[123] Amerika Birleşik Devletleri´ndeki Ermeni nüfusu da bu katliam faaliyetlerini desteklemekteydi.[124][125]

Bu dönemde Ermenilerin Türklere ait camileri ve diğer kamusal binalara zarar verdiğini belirten pek çok rapor da vardır.[95]

Daha sonra, 1920 yılında imzalanan Gümrü Antlaşması ile Müslümanlara can ve mal güvenceleri verilmiştir.[126]

30 Mart-3 Nisan 1918 tarihleri arasında yaşanan Mart Olayları veya Mart Katliamı´nda[127][128] 3000[129][130] ila 12,000 Azeri ve diğer Müslüman etnik gruplara mensup kişi öldürüldü.[131][132][133][134][135] Olaylarda Azerilerin evleri yakıldı, sokaklarda Azeri olduğu düşünülenler öldürüldü.[136]

Mart 1920´de Azerbaycan Demokratik Cumhuriyeti Ermenilerin kontrolü altındaki bölgelerde 300 kadar Müslüman köyünün yakılıp sakinlerinin öldürüldüğünü tahmin edip olayları kınadı.[137]

 

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCsl%C3%BCman_-_T%C3%BCrk_katliamlar%C4%B1

3.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 04:37 pm

 

 

Kanlı saldırılar 1973 yılında başladı. O yıl, 27 Ocak günü Mıgırdıç Yanıkyan adlı yaşlı bir Ermeni komitacı, Türkiye’nin Los Angeles Başkonsolosu Mehmet Baydar ile yardımcısı Konsolos Bahadır Demir’i bir otelde kurşunlayıp öldürdü. Amerika’nın Pasifik kıyısında işlenen bu çifte cinayet, Türk diplomatlarına karşı kanlı Ermeni suikastlarının başlangıcı oldu.

Silahlı Ermeni teröristler, 22 Ekim 1975 tarihinde Türkiye’nin Viyana Büyükelçiliğini bastılar. Büyükelçimiz Dâniş Tunalıgil‘i makam odasında, çalışma masası başında şehit ettiler. Bu cinayetten iki gün sonra Ermeniler, Paris Büyükelçimiz İsmail Erez‘i ve şoförü Talip Yener’i makam otomobili içinde kurşun yağmuruna tuttular. Türkiye, 48 saat içinde Ermeni terörüne üç kurban verdi, değerli ve deneyimli iki Büyükelçi kaybet ti. O yıl Cumhuriyet Bayramı arifesinde Türk Dışişleri Teşkilâtı ve Türk ulusu yasa boğuldu.

Ermenilerin düzenlediği bu ilk saldırıları yeni kanlı suikastlar izledi. 1980’li yıllarda Ermeni saldırıları büsbütün arttı. Ermeni teröristler kudurmuş gibi üstüste saldırdılar. Bu dönemde Belgrad Büyükelçimiz Galip Balkar, Sydney Başkonsolosumuz Şarık Arıyak, Los Angeles Başkonsolosumuz Kemal Arıkan, Ottawa Büyükelçiliğimiz Askeri Ataşesi Hava Kurmay Albay Attilâ Altıkat, Paris Turizm Müşavirimiz Yılmaz Çolpan, Paris Çalışma Ataşemiz Reşat Moralı, Paris din görevlimiz Tecelli Arı arka arkaya Ermeni saldırılarında şehit düştüler. Ermeniler, Türk diplomatlarına karşı dört kıtada arka arkaya 27 suikast düzenlediler. Bu suikastlarda 34 şehit ve pek çok yaralı verdik.

1970’li ve 1980’li yıllarda uçaklar, dünyanın dört bucağından Türkiye’ye şehit diplomat cenazeleri taşıyıp durdular. Yurt dışına bavulla giden Türk diplomatları tabutlar içinde döndüler. Onlar, bizim meslektaşlarımızdı. O tabutların içinde biz de olabilirdik. Onlar da bugün yaşıyor olabilirlerdi.

Bizim yaşadığımız bu trajedinin tarihte benzeri yoktur. Gerçekten hiç bir dönemde, başka hiçbir ülkenin diplomatları böylesine sistematik suikastlara maruz kalmamışlardır. Tarihte de günümüzde de saldırıya uğramış ve can vermiş diplomatlar olmuştur, ama onlar münferit ve istisnai olaylardır. Bizim uğradığımız suikastlar ise birbirini izleyen sistematik bir suikastlar dizisidir. Evet, Ermeniler, Türk diplomatlarına karşı peş peşe tam 27 suikast düzenlenmiş ve otuzdan fazla kurban almışlardır. Dünya diplomasi tarihinde bunun bir başka benzeri ve emsali yoktur.

Türk Dışişleri Bakanlığı, teröre en yüksek oranda şehit vermiş bir kuruluştur. Dışişleri Bakanlığımız o zamanki mevcut personelinin yaklaşık binde 40 veya % 4 kadarını şehit vermiştir. Bu, gerçekten çok yüksek bir orandır. Verdiğimiz bu şehitlerin kolay yetişmeyen, seçme devlet görevlileri olduklarını da unutmamak gerekir.

Ermeni terörüne kurban verdiğimiz meslektaşlarımız, Türk oldukları için, yurt dışında Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Devletini temsil ettikleri için öldürüldüler. Onlar bu memleket için, bu vatan için öldüler. Bunu not ediyoruz ve şehitlerimizi hiç unutmuyoruz, unutmayacağız. Hatıraları önünde saygıyla eğiliyorum.

Şehit diplomatlarımız üzerine bir kitap hazırlama düşüncesi emekli Büyükelçi Semih Günver’ den geldi. 1996 yılında Bizim Diplomatlar adlı kitabım yayımlanmıştı. O kitabımda, Lozan Barış Konferansı sırasında İsmet Paşa’ya (İnönü karşı hazırlanan suikast girişimlerine değinmiştim. Orada yazdıklarım Ermenilerin şehit ettikleri diplomatlarımızı akla getirmiştir. Rahmetli Büyükelçi Günver, şehit diplomatlarımız hakkında da bir kitap yazmam için bana açık çağrıda bulundu. Cumhuriyet gazetesinde yayımladığı bir yazısında, "Şehit diplomatlarımızın da öykülerini yazmak gerekli. Diplomasi şehitlerimizi bir arada bir kitap içinde toplamakta büyük yarar var... Sayın Bilâl Şimşir, siz bu işi de ele alamazmısınız? Bizler size yardımcı olmaya çalışırız" diyordu. Onun bu çağrısını görev bildim. Kendisini burada rahmet ve şükranla anıyorum. Kitabın fikir babası rahmetli Günver’dir.

Türk diplomatlarına karşı Ermeni suikastlarının çoğu demokratik Batı ülkelerinde düzenlendi. Ermeni teröristler Amerika, batı Avrupa ve Avustralya’da lojistik destek buluyor, daha kolaylıkla eylem yapıyor ve buralarda çoğu zaman cezasız kalıyor ya da hafif cezalarla kurtuluyorlardı. Ayrıca oralarda kanlı propagandalarına daha elverişli bir ortam buluyorlardı. Kitabımızda bunları not ettik. Meslektaşlarımız Amerika kıtasında, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, Boston ve Ottawa şehirlerinde; Avrupa’da da şu merkezlerde Ermenilerin silahlı saldırılarına uğradılar: Viyana, Paris, Lyon, Marsilya, Roma, Brüksel, Lahey, Madrid, Lizbon, Atina, Kopenhag, Cenevre, Belgrad ve Burgaz. Avustralya’da da Sydney Başkonsolosumuz ve koruma görevlisi şehit edildiler. Ermeni teröristler Tahran’da da diplomatlarımıza ve temsilciliklerimize karşı silâhlı saldırılar düzenlediler ve can aldılar.

O yıllarda Ermeni terörünün asıl merkezi Paris idi. Paris, "Ermeni terörünün başkenti" olarak .n yapmıştı. Ermeni cinayetlerinin bir çoğu Paris’te işlendi. 1975-1983 yıllarında Paris’te verdiğimiz şehitlerin isimleri şöyle sıralanabilir:

Büyükelçi İsmail Erez (24 Ekim 1975’de şehit edildi.)

Büyükelçinin makam şoförü Talip Yener (24 Ekim 1975’de şehit edildi).

Turizm ve Tanıtma Müşaviri Yılmaz Çolpan (22 Aralık 1979’de şehit edildi ).

Çalışma Müşaviri Reşat Moralı (4 Mart 1981’de şehit edildi).

Din Görevlisi Tecelli Arı (4 Mart 1981’de şehit edildi).

Başkonsolosluk koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen (24 Eylül 1981’de şehit edildi).

Bu görevlilerimizin hepsi Paris’te şehit edildiler.

Ermeni teröristler 15 Temmuz 1983 günü de Paris/Orly havaalanında Türk Hava Yolları bürosuna karşı bombalı saldırı düzenlediler. Saldırıda 8 kişi öldü, 60 kişi yaralandı (ölenler: 1 Amerikalı, 1 İsveçli, 2 Türk ve 4 Fransız idi).

Basın Müşaviri Selçuk Bakkalbaşı Paris’te ağır yaralandı: 26 Eylül 1980

Maliye Müşaviri Ahmet Erbeyli’ nin arabası Paris’te bombalandı: 13 Ocak 1981

Başkonsolos Kaya İnal Paris’te ağır yaralandı: 24 Eylül 1981.

Fransız makamları, korumakla yükümlü oldukları halde Türk diplomatlarını korumamışlar ve Ermeni terörüne göz yummuşlardır. Katillerin çoğu yakalanmamış, cinayetlerin failleri meçhul kalmıştır. Yakalanan veya teslim olan Ermeni katiller de müstahak oldukları cezalara çarptırılmamışlardır. 24 Eylül 1981 günü T.C. Paris Başkonsolosluğunu basan, oradaki koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen’i öldüren ve Başkonsolos Kaya İnal’ı ağır yaralayan Ermeni teröristler Fransız mahkemesi tarafından layık oldukları cezalara çarptırılmamışlardır. Bugün işlemediği bir suç için Türk ulusunu lekelemeğe kalkışan Fransız Parlamentosu, Fransa’nın başkenti Paris’te Türk diplomatları arka arkaya katledilirken kılını kıpırdatmamış, Ermeni cinayetleri kınamamıştır.

Fransızların bu hasmane tutumunu not ediyoruz ve unutmayacağız.

Oysa Ermenilerin köklü bir terör ve suikast geleneği vardır. Ama biz eskiyi, eski Ermeni suikastlarını çoktan unutmuştuk. 1887 ve 1890 yılında kurulan Ermeni Hınçak ve Taşnaksutyun örgütleri, ta kuruldukları günlerden beri suikast ve terörü birer metot olarak benimsemişlerdi. Terörü ve suikastları kuşaktan kuşağa aktarmışlardı. Ama biz bunları pek hatırlamıyorduk. Ermeniler vaktiyle terörü Osmanlı payı tahtına da taşımışlardı. 1896’ta Galata’daki Osmanlı Bankasını silahla basmış ve birçok masum insanı katletmişlerdi. 1905 yılında Osmanlı Padişahı Abdülhamid’e suikast düzenlemişler, padişahın geçeceği yerde 80 kiloluk bir bomba patlatmışlardı. Bu büyük infilâkta 26 kişi can vermiş, 58 kişi yaralanmıştı. Biz bunları da unutmuştuk. Ermeni teröristler 1921 yılında eski sadrazam Talat Paşa’yı ve eski sadrazam Sait Halim Paşa’yı, 1922 yılında da Büyük Cemal Paşa’yı ve iki yaverini vurmuşlardı. Biz bunları artık hatırlamıyorduk. 1922-23 yıllarında, Lozan’da İsmet Paşa’ya karşı Ermeni suikastları düzenlenmiş olduğunu bilmiyorduk. Ermeniler büyük Atatürk’e karşı da bir dizi suikast hazırlamışlardı. Ama Atatürk’le ilgili yayınlarda bunlardan tek satırla dahi bahsedilmiyordu. Bunları bilenimiz yoktu. Bilenlerimiz varsa da onlar göçüp gitmişlerdi.

Lozan Konferansı’nda ikinci delegemiz Dr. Rıza Nur, "suikast Ermenilerin spesiyalitesidir", der. Ermenilerin kendileri de suikast ustaları olmakla övünürler. Biz eğer bunları unutmamış olsaydık ve zamanında hatırlayabilseydik, belki yeni Ermeni suikastlarına karşı daha tedbirli olurduk ve belki şehit diplomatlarımızın bazıları hayatta kalırlardı, diye düşünürüm. Cehalet öldürüyor, diye düşünürüm.

öncelikle şehitlerimizin mezun oldukları okullara, Fakülteler görevler düşer. Kendi çatıları altında yetiştirmiş ve mezun etmiş oldukları bu şehitlerimize lütfen biraz ilgi göstersinler. Şehitlerimizin birçoğu Galatasaray lisesinden çıkmıştır. Birkaçını zikredeyim. Örneğin:

Şehit Büyükelçi Dâniş Tunalıgil,

Şehit Büyükelçi İsmail Erez,

Şehit Büyükelçi Taha Carım,

Şehit Büyükelçi Beşir Balcıoğlu Galatasaray mezunlarıdır.


Ankara Üniversitesi Siyasal Bilgiler Fakültesi veya Mülkiye mezunu olan şehitlerimizden birkaçının adlarını zikredeyim:

İlk diplomat şehidimiz Konsolos Bahadır Demir,

Paris Büyükelçisi iken şehit edilen İsmail Erez,

Avustralya’nın Sydney şehrinde şehit edilen Başkonsolos Şarık Arıyak,

Paris’te Çalışma Müşaviri iken vurulan Reşat Moralı Mülkiye mezunudurlar.


Belgrad’da şehit edilen Büyükelçi Galip Balkar ile San Francisco’da vurulan Başkonsolos Kemal Arıkan Ankara Üniversitesi Hukuk Fakültesi mezunudurlar. İlk diplomat şehidimiz Başkonsolos Mehmet Baydar, Viyana’da vurulan Büyükelçi Dâniş Tunalıgil ve Madrid’de vurulan Büyükelçi Beşir Balcıoğlu İstanbul Üniversitesi Hukuk Fakültesi’nden mezun olmuşlardır. Hukuk Fakültelerimizin de bu şehit diplomatlarımızı hatırlayıp andıklarını hiç duymadım. Ankara Hukuk Fakültesinin bir salonuna Şehit Büyükelçi Galip Balkar ve Şehit Başkonsolos Kemal Arıkan adlarının, İstanbul Hukuk Fakültesinin mekânlarına da Şehit Büyükelçi Dâniş Tunalıgil, Şehit Başkonsolos Mehmet Baydar, Şehit Büyükelçi Beşir Balcıoğlu adlarının verilmesi yerinde olmaz mı?

Paris’te vurulan Turizm ve Tanıtma Müşaviri Yılmaz Çolpan, A... Dil Tarih ve Coğrafya Fakültesinden mezun olmuştur. Bir süre önce bu Fakültede Ermeni sorunuyla ilgili bir panel düzenlendi. Ben de konuşmacı olarak katıldım. Başarılı geçen bu panelden önce Fakültenin kendi şehidi Yılmaz Çolpan için bir dakikalık saygı duruşunda bulunulabilir ve bir yere bir plaket çakılabilirdi. Ama bunu akıl eden olmadı.

Paris’te vurulan din görevlisi Tecelli Arı İzmir Yüksek İslâm Enstitüsü’nden mezun olmuştur. Din adamı yetiştiren eğitim kurumlarımız da bu şehidimize sahip çıkabilirler, öğrenicilerine Tecelli Arı’nın nerede, nasıl şehit düştüğünü anlatabilirler. Şehit Başkonsolos Mehmet Baydar ile Konsolos Bahadır Demir İstanbul Robert Kolej’i bitirmişlerdir. Robert Kolej bugün Boğaziçi Üniversitesidir. Bu Üniversitemiz de bu ilk diplomat şehitlerimiz hakkında çeşitli etkinlikler düzenleyebilirler. Dış görevde, diplomatlarımızla birlikte Ermeniler tarafından şehit edilen emniyet görevlilerimiz de vardır: 1980 yılında Sydney’de Başkonsolos Arıyak ile birlikte vurulan koruma görevlisi Engin Sever ve 1981 yılında Paris Başkonsolosluğumuzda vurulan koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen gibi. Polis Kolejlerinde, Polis Akademisinde bu şehitlerimiz için bazı etkinlikler düzenlenebilir, diye düşünüyorum.

Bu vesileyle komşumuz Ermenistan hakkında da bir iki şey söylemek isterim. Türkiye olarak biz, yeni bağımsızlığa kavuşan bütün devletleri tanıdık, tanırken hiçbir ayrım gözetmedik ve bağımsız Ermenistan Cumhuriyetini de tanıdık.

İkinci aşamada yeni bağımsız devletlerle protokoller, anlaşmalar imzalayıp diplomatik ilişkiler kurduk ve oralarda Elçilikler açtık. Fakat Ermenistan ile diplomatik ilişki kurmadık ve Erivan’da Elçilik açmadık. Çünkü gerekli şartlar yoktu, çünkü Ermenistan, saldırgan ve sorumsuz bir devlet olarak sahneye çıkmıştı. Halâ da öyledir. Sovyetler Birliğinden 15 bağımsız devlet doğdu, bunların içinde yalnız Ermenistan, komşularına saldıran veya dil uzatan bir sorumsuz devlet olarak sahneye çıkmıştı. İlişki kurmak için bizim vazgeçilmez şartlarımızdan biri, olmazsa olmaz şartımız, sınırların değişmezliği ilkesi idi. Ermenistan ise silah zoruyla komşusu Azerbaycan’ın sınırlarını değiştirmeğe, sınırları çizen eski antlaşmaları tanımamaya doğru yöneldi. Böylesine sorumsuz bir devletle diplomatik ilişki kurulamazdı ve kurulamadı.

Dahası, Ermenistan, bugün burada hatıralarını yâd ettiğimiz aziz şehitlerimizin katledilmelerinden de sorumludur. Hem Sovyet Ermenistan Cumhuriyeti, hem de bugünkü Ermenistan Cumhuriyeti, Türk diplomatlarına karşı düzenlenmiş olan suikastlar serisinden birinci derecede sorumludur. Ermenistan’ın bu sorumluluğu Sovyet döneminden gününüze kadar uzanır. Türk diplomatlarını katleden Ermeni teröristlerin birçoğu bugün Ermenistan’da barınmakta ve korunmaktadır. Ermenistan Cumhuriyeti, büyük komşusu Türkiye ile ilişkilerini normalleştirmek isterse, önce sınırların değişmezliği ilkesini açıkça kabul etmeli ve bunun gereğini yapmalıdır. Bundan başka, Ermenistan, şehitlerimizden özür dilemeli ve şehitlerimizin katillerini Türk adaletine teslim etmelidir, diye düşünüyorum.


http://www.eraren.org/index.php?Page=DergiIcerik&IcerikNo=205

 

 

Ermeni askerler Türk çobanı öldürdü

KARS’ın Arpaçay ile Akyaka ilçeleri arasındaki yayladan Ermenistan sınırını geçen hayvanı almak isteyen çoban Mustafa Ülker, Ermenistan askerlerinin açtığı ateş sonucu vurularak öldürüldü.

Bedir ALTUNOK/KARS, (DHA)

01.08.2013 11:28

http://www.dha.com.tr/ermeni-askerler-turk-cobani-oldurdu_506553.html

 


Sultan Abdülhamid’e Suikast Kararının Alınması ve Hazırlıklar

1900’lere gelindiğinde Sultan Abdülhamid, Ermeni terörünü iyice etkisiz hale getirmişti. Ermeni komitacıları, Sultan Abdülhamid işbaşında kaldıkça emellerini gerçekleştiremeyeceklerini anlamışlardı. Bu durumda Ermeniler için tek çare bu “Kızıl Sultan”ın bedeninin ortadan kaldırılmasıydı. Artık Ermeni emellerinin önünü açacak olan şey, Sultan Abdülhamid’i öldürmekten7 ve Meşrutiyet’i ilan için onunla mücadele eden Jön Türklerle işbirliği yapmaktan geçiyordu. İşte Yıldız’daki bomba olayının belli başlı sebepleri de bu noktada düğümleniyordu. Yoksa bomba suikastı ansızın ortaya çıkan bir hadise değildi.

Bir dizi halinde meydana gelen ayrılıkçı Ermeni isyan hadiselerinin bir uzantısıydı.  Susikat sayesinde doğacak kargaşalıktan ve hükümet kuvvetlerinin şaşkınlığından faydalanılacak, bir ihtilal ile Avrupa devletlerinin de müdahaleleri temin edilerek Ermeni emelleri gerçekleştirilecekti8. Hem Ermeniler uzun süredir Avrupalıların kendilerine kuvvetle yardım edeceklerine ve Ermeni krallığını kuracaklarına inançla bağlanmışlardı9.

 

http://atam.gov.tr/yildiz-suikasti-ermenilerin-abdulhamite-karsi-son-tesebbusleri-bombali-saldiri/

 

http://m.turkishny.com/news/ataa-ermeni-teroru-kurbanlarini-aniyor

 

 

Armenian lobby

The Armenian American community has been described as the "most influential" Armenian community in the world, though smaller in size than the one in Russia.[2] The Armenian American lobby is one of the most powerful ethnic lobbies in the US,[134] It is today considered to be the second most powerful ethnic lobby in America after the Jewish lobby.[5] The Armenian Assembly of America (AAA) and the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) have as their main lobbying agenda the pressing of Congress and the US President for an increase of economic aid to Armenia (already the second largest per capita after Israel) and the reduction of economic and military assistance to Turkey. The efforts also include reaffirmation of a genocide by Ottoman Turkey in 1915.[135]

According to Shawn Dorman, the author of Inside a U.S. embassy, the main goal of Armenian lobby is the "persuasion of US Congress to favor Armenian interests, especially to recognize the Armenian Genocide." He then claims that "it had significant role in the United States providing financial support to Armenia. From 1992 to 2010 the US provided nearly $2 billion, the highest per capita amount for a post-Soviet state."[136] Fund for Armenian Relief is a humanitarian organization providing long-term programs focusing on human development. Armenia Fund raises millions of dollars every year for infrastructural development in Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh.

In 1992, Dr. Dickran Kouymjian of the California State University, Fresno stated in his essay:

All have refocused their efforts toward Armenia, providing financial and professional skill. The identification of Armenians with those in Erevan and Karabagh has been greatly facilitated by Armenia´s membership in the United Nations and the regular reporting of its problems in the American press.. Diasporan history has been transformed by the Republic: nowhere is this more strongly felt than in America. The unifying force of the Genocide has been superseded by that of the Republic, while religious freedom in Armenia has revitalized the church in America and given it a mission. As the largest and most prosperous community in the world, as inheritors of a Protestant American work ethic, coupled with American self-righteousness, Armenian Americans feel they have a special role in the survival and success of the new state. They take pride in their support of Etchmiadzin, in the massive humanitarian aid given since the 1988 earthquake, in Armenians in high government positions, and particularly in the establishment of the American University of Armenia, the first major experiment in American higher education in the former Soviet Union. As English quickly becomes the second language of the new republic, Armenians in America feel closer to the homeland, suffering Armenia´s tragedies and rejoicing in its successes. The Karabagh crisis, economic chaos, lack of basic amenities, and the threat of war fill all diasporan Armenians with an anxiety unknown before, because they know that their efforts may determine Armenia´s fate.[127]

 

 

 

what are you (people like the author of that article) still crying for? let me tell you, if you cant cry, you cant explain these countless murders and crimes commited by the armenians. armenians HAVE to uphold the armenian genocide ideology, otherwise there wont be any explanation about their innate hatred and murders. perhaps one of the best quotes that explains the attidute of the crying armenians that i have heard was what one of the generals in the khojali massacre said, and which i have run out of energy to find the source of: "we killed azerian citizens because we wanted to show the world that armenians are serious in this war."

 

you really cant whine about our murderers while you have people like this exist

 

4.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 05:04 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

...

what are you (people like the author of that article) still crying for? let me tell you, if you cant cry, you cant explain these countless murders and crimes commited by the armenians. armenians HAVE to uphold the armenian genocide ideology, otherwise there wont be any explanation about their innate hatred and murders. perhaps one of the best quotes that explains the attidute of the crying armenians that i have heard was what one of the generals in the khojali massacre said, and which i have run out of energy to find the source of: "we killed azerian citizens because we wanted to show the world that armenians are serious in this war."

 

you really cant whine about our murderers while you have people like this exist

 

 

This entire copy and paste is showing a kind of guilt!!

What you are saying ogically is ´yes we killed Hrant Dink and we are protecting the killer´.

What are all those copy and paste stuff got to do Hrant Dink´s murder? Are you trying to say that we have right to kill Armenians because of the things Armenians did in the past?

 

 

5.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 05:47 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

This entire copy and paste is showing a kind of guilt!!


 

 

 

lol

 

no im just showing you that you cant whine and kill at the same time. many innocent people get killed in turkey and hrank dink wont receive special treatment because he is "one of you"

6.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 05:50 pm

and besides hes not that innocent. im prettty sure if a turkish man went to armenia and wrote exactly same anti-armenian stuff as hrank dink did in turkey, armenias would have skinned him alive and they wouldnt even recieve western pressure about it

7.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:02 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

lol

 

no im just showing you that you cant whine and kill at the same time. many innocent people get killed in turkey and hrank dink wont receive special treatment because he is "one of you"

Lol +1

I dont know what you mean he is ´one of you´ but it is for sure that I dont want my people being associated with the murderers.

 

8.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:06 pm

no need for association. the entire armenian foreign polciy is based upon foreign gangster assassinations and whining about the genocide mythology



Edited (9/21/2013) by burakk

9.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:10 pm

 

Quoting burakk

and besides hes not that innocent. im prettty sure if a turkish man went to armenia and wrote exactly same anti-armenian stuff as hrank dink did in turkey, armenias would have skinned him alive and they wouldnt even recieve western pressure about it

 

What do you think he said?Can you tell me a few of those stuff you are talking about?

You are trying to prove that he deserved.

That is what the original article was about in the first place and you are proving that.

This case is very simple.

A journalist being killed with the help of state organizations..

This is a cold bloded murder.

We should all try to find his killers to clean  the state of Turkey.

Otherwise  this is sticking to us and defaming our country.

Efi70 liked this message
10.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:11 pm

 

Quoting burakk

no need for association. the entire armenian foreign polciy is based upon foreign gangster assassinations and whining about the genocide mythology

 

Actually, I was not talking about Armenians at all. lol

11.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:11 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

What do you think he said?Can you tell me a few of those stuff you are talking about?

You are trying to prove that he deserved.

That is what the original article was about in the first place and you are proving that.

This case is very simple.

A journalist being killed with the help of state organizations..

This is a cold bloded murder.

We should all try to find his killers to clean  the state of Turkey.

Otherwise  this is sticking to us and defaming our country.

 

clean turkey in the eyes of what? eu? that will never happen. i hope one day you see the real picture.

i already said hes innocent. dont bend my words.

12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:15 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

clean turkey in the eyes of what? eu? that will never happen. i hope one day you see the real picture.

i already said hes innocent. dont bend my words.

 

Well I dont want my people to feel the shame of these murderers anymore.

I dont want these murderers to defame my country any longer. 

 

13.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:31 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Shall I tell you the truth?

I don´t always want to write about ´Armenians´
Because it is a state of being unhealthy
It is making readers tired as well the writer
I want to say "I know there are some other things in life"
Different things
Ordinary people´s lives.
other politics, other lives, other truths..
But I can not do it in these days..Please understand
Hrant Dink trial has started and again, we should look not tired.
We have start going to the courts again
We should show ourselves straight in TVs and ask for justice.
We have to make strong noises for the memory of our brother Hrant Dink who was taken away from us, as if 7 years did not pass, as if we were not ridiculed, as if we are not worried about our lives.
As Markar said we have to be ´the truth tellers´
What is the truth?
We were the guest in SKY360 channel in Hilmi Hacaloğlu´s program
Me, Ismail Sayma from Radikal and two more guests
We were going to talk about the details of restart of the Dink´s murder case which was returned back for retrial from the supreme court
we talked
Normally two different opinions are discussed in these type of program
But what can those two opinions  be in this murder?
are there two different sides of this murder in which  the state with all its establishments has taken part?
There was apparently.
There were your police, their gendarme, others intelligence officer, apparently.
No body could stop the murderer who run away by shouting ´I have killed and Armenian´ but because of the conjuncture, there are some unhappy people today. That is what I was told.
Shall I tell you the truth.
This is a murder with national agreement
There is nothing to be silent, do tell.
You have a murderer in your tribe
The climate who murdered Hrant is our latest result.
This is our routine
The picture we see after 7 years of this murder is our towns secret.
Murderers are ´our boys´
You have to understand them
They have nationalistic and  conservative  sensitivities.
They can kill because of that sensitivity
Shall I tell you the truth
Down with your sensitivities (I wish your sensitivities go to the bottom of earth)
We are being killed.
sensitivity is ours.
we are tired.
silence is yours.
Some are looking at the life from the side of murderers and some from the murdered.
Some are "sensitive" some are "dead" on this land.
You have a murderer in your tribe.
Say ´NO´.
Say ´that is enough´.
If you ask me we have two sentences
can we talk about this?
Ismail saymaz is under heavy threat since he explained all these.
Don´t be the part of that great silence.
do tell.
did not you say that the truth would make us free?
Then why are we feeling  trapped in a much bigger desperation?
Shall I tell you the truth? with each day in trial you are making the circle bigger, the circle which we united to break
In fact you are doing this with a bigger silence.
But don´t forget, you are making a case of a tyrant nation nor the wounds are healing as long as you are silent and you turn blind eye.
Shall I tell you the truth?
You have a murderer in your tribe!

 

This is a straight translation of a column:

http://www.taraf.com.tr/hayko-bagdat/makale-gercegi-soyleyeyim-mi.htm

The writer is Hayko Bagdat. An Armenian, living in Istanbul.

 

Well done Agop, great effort (to take your time to translate it all)!

 

Adam25 liked this message
14.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:41 pm

"Türk"ten boşalacak o zehirli kanın yerini dolduracak temiz kan, Ermeni´nin Ermenistan´la kuracağı asil damarında mevcuttur." - Hrant Dink

 

Translation:


"replace the poisoned blood associated with the Turk, with fresh blood associated with Armenia" - Hrant Dink

 

This is utmost racist, would you agree, Agop?

15.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:43 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

Well done Agop, great effort (to take your time to translate it all)!

 

 

lol.

You are thinking that "calling a Turkish person with Armenian name is an insult".

You are trying to insult a Turk by calling that Turk with an armenian name.

That is RACISM.

Then you get upset!!

Efi70 liked this message
16.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:53 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

lol.

You are thinking that "calling a Turkish person with Armenian name is an insult".

You are trying to insult a Turk by calling that Turk with an armenian name.

That is RACISM.

Then you get upset!!

 

Don´t take it as an insult. It can only be a metaphore at worst. That´s not my intention at all, honestly.

 

17.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 06:56 pm

 

Quoting si++

"Türk"ten boşalacak o zehirli kanın yerini dolduracak temiz kan, Ermeni´nin Ermenistan´la kuracağı asil damarında mevcuttur." - Hrant Dink

 

Translation:


"replace the poisoned blood associated with the Turk, with fresh blood associated with Armenia" - Hrant Dink

 

This is utmost racist, would you agree, Agop?

 

 

Read it from here : http://baskinoran.com/belge/ErmeniKimligiUzerine-HrantDink.pdf

This is picking something out of its context and even the most racist Turks accepted that they MISUNDERSTOOD his statement.

If you read the articles in above link (start with page 13.) you will see he explained a great length of how ´Armenians defining themselves with the existing of Turks and what happened in the history. Armenians mind is fixed to the TURKS. Hrant Dink thinks that Armenian should get on with their lives and dont let history or Turks interfere with it. This interference is poisining their blood!!! He says that ´get rid of that poison from your blood´.

clear?

Plus, he was not a racist person at all..

 



Edited (9/21/2013) by thehandsom
Edited (9/21/2013) by thehandsom

18.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 07:07 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

 

Read it from here : http://baskinoran.com/belge/ErmeniKimligiUzerine-HrantDink.pdf

This is picking something out of its context and even the most racist Turks accepted that they MISUNDERSTOOD his statement.

If you read the articles in above link (start with page 13.) you will see he explained a great length of how ´Armenians defining themselves with the existing of Turks and what happened in the history. Armenians mind is fixed to the TURKS. Hrant Dink thinks that Armenian should get on with their lives and dont let history or Turks interfere with it. This interference is poisining their blood!!! He says that ´get rid of that poison from your blood´.

Dont you get it?

Plus, he was not a racist person at all..

 

 

I didn´t use the word "person". Don´t twist the words.

With or without context, it´s not a nice statement. Yaeh usually when you say somethibg like that, you excuse yourself with the help of the context but still it´s an ill-intent playing with words that way. Beside the court didn´t excuse him for it and he was founded guilty because of it, right?

 

And still you didn´t answer my question. You sound like you are utmost over-sensitive about racism. But you throw the ball to the outside.

 

It´s utmost racist, right?

19.       burakk
309 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 08:01 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Well I dont want my people to feel the shame of these murderers anymore.

I dont want these murderers to defame my country any longer. 

 

 

these are not reasons for defaming. these are excuses for anti-turkish, anti-Muslim policies. none other genocide-guilty country in the world receives this kind trash treatment and physical oppression. this genocide ideology caused the deaths of countless turkish people, used as an excuse for many things, from the support of pkk against turkey to the justification of mavi marmara, asala, khojali and many other crap. world is ready to kill the turk for the simpliest of excuses. world is ready to kill anyone for gas and oil, and even more ready to find a fitting "kılıf" for it. this has nothing to do with armenian genocide.

 

heres another example of this.

 

whining about armenian genocide is like this; you go into someones house with daggers and guns and start killing them, but one of the people in there manages to beat you up and then you run out of the house and sue that guy for beating you up.

 

and of course the gangs in the neighborhood who never liked that guy to begin with will side with you in everything, and the gangs that dont like you will side with that guy. dont look at the side-taking of these other people to make judgements.



Edited (9/21/2013) by burakk
Edited (9/21/2013) by burakk
Edited (9/21/2013) by burakk

20.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Sep 2013 Sat 09:18 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

these are not reasons for defaming. these are excuses for anti-turkish, anti-Muslim policies. none other genocide-guilty country in the world receives this kind trash treatment and physical oppression. this genocide ideology caused the deaths of countless turkish people, used as an excuse for many things, from the support of pkk against turkey to the justification of mavi marmara, asala, khojali and many other crap. world is ready to kill the turk for the simpliest of excuses. world is ready to kill anyone for gas and oil, and even more ready to find a fitting "kılıf" for it. this has nothing to do with armenian genocide.

 

heres another example of this.

 

whining about armenian genocide is like this; you go into someones house with daggers and guns and start killing them, but one of the people in there manages to beat you up and then you run out of the house and sue that guy for beating you up.

 

and of course the gangs in the neighborhood who never liked that guy to begin with will side with you in everything, and the gangs that dont like you will side with that guy. dont look at the side-taking of these other people to make judgements.

 

I think you completely misunderstood the article.

This article I translated is about Hrant Dink!!.

But you trust me, no one is outside in a queue to kill Turks. And Hrant Dink was defininately not out to kill anybody.

Such a shame that Turkish racists killed him with the help of state deparments.

And this act is still supported..

The guy who wrote the article was right: Murderers are our boys. As long as people support them they will defame the entire country.

 

21.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Sep 2013 Sun 12:18 pm

 

 

.. Beside the court didn´t excuse him for it and he was founded guilty because of it, right?

 

Just for the record:

charge under 301 was pressed for Dink´s article called "Getting to know Armenia" (February 13, 2004), in which he suggested to diaspora Armenians that it was time to rid themselves of their enmity against Turks, a condition he considered himself free of, keeping himself emotionally healthy while at the same time knowing something of discrimination. His statement, "replace the poisoned blood associated with the Turk, with fresh blood associated with Armenia"[44] resulted in a six-month suspended sentence.[13]

Dink defended himself vigorously against the charges:

    "This trial is based on a total misunderstanding," Dink told Reporters Without Borders. "I never meant to insult Turkish citizens. The term in question was taken out of context and is only symbolic. The real subject of the article is the Armenian diaspora who, once they have come to terms with the Turkish part of their identity, can seek new answers to their questions from independent Armenia.
..

In September, 2010, the European Court of Human Rights found that Turkish authorities have violated Dink´s freedom of speech (Article 10 ECHR) by criminal proceedings against him for alleged denigration of Turkish identity and in reality, for criticizing the state institutions´ denial of the view that the events of 1915 amounted to genocide.[51]

22.       si++
3785 posts
 22 Sep 2013 Sun 01:15 pm

As for using context, to spit out a nasty statement by decorating it somehow, take this example:

 

I would never ever say something like ".....´s are all bastards, all of them bloodthirsty animals, blah blah" because it would not be nice, right?

 

Now fill in the blank with the name of a nation you hate and you have managed to make a nasty statement about them by decorating it. Why would you do something like that? You say you wouldn´t say something like that and say it at the same time. Now is that intentional or what?

 

The court saw the bad intention there. Personally I did too.

 

You cannot say something like that and excuse yourself with the context thingy, right Agop?

23.       si++
3785 posts
 22 Sep 2013 Sun 01:19 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

In September, 2010, the European Court of Human Rights found that Turkish authorities have violated Dink´s freedom of speech (Article 10 ECHR) by criminal proceedings against him for alleged denigration of Turkish identity and in reality, for criticizing the state institutions´ denial of the view that the events of 1915 amounted to genocide.[51]

 

See Agop, you also do it.

 

You want to say 1915 events were gebocide. But you don´t say it directly instead you play your dirty tricks.

 

Well done, Agop! We can sense your intention.

24.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 12:15 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

See Agop, you also do it.

 

You want to say 1915 events were gebocide. But you don´t say it directly instead you play your dirty tricks.

 

Well done, Agop! We can sense your intention.

 

So we dont have a Lady Armenian here...He is just an Agop !{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

25.       burakk
309 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:07 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I think you completely misunderstood the article.

This article I translated is about Hrant Dink!!.

But you trust me, no one is outside in a queue to kill Turks. And Hrant Dink was defininately not out to kill anybody.

Such a shame that Turkish racists killed him with the help of state deparments.

And this act is still supported..

The guy who wrote the article was right: Murderers are our boys. As long as people support them they will defame the entire country.

 

 

tens of innocent turkish people have been killed in germany. it was state supported too. did you whine about that? if you want to uphold your countrys honor and name you should pay attention to these first.

26.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:32 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

tens of innocent turkish people have been killed in germany. it was state supported too. did you whine about that? if you want to uphold your countrys honor and name you should pay attention to these first.

 

Of course I did..

I joined the protests about them. But the thing is that I have RIGHT to do that because I am protesting about the samething in my own country too. But you dont.

27.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:35 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Of course I did..

I joined the protests about them. But the thing is that I have RIGHT to do that because I am protesting about the samething in my own country too. But you dont.

 

Millions here protested murder of Hrant Dink. That unfortunately did not bring him back.

Those who murdered Turkish diplomats were largely punished and stopped; that did not bring the diplomats back.

Murderers of Turks in Germany are now on trial; that will not bring them back either.



Edited (9/23/2013) by AlphaF

28.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:38 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

See Agop, you also do it.

 

You want to say 1915 events were gebocide. But you don´t say it directly instead you play your dirty tricks.

 

Well done, Agop! We can sense your intention.

 

You got to be joking or not the sharpest knife in the draw to think that I can NOT say directly the things I want to say. 

But as far as your Agop goes.. It is like this:

In USA, a white police kills a black guy unlawfully and some whites protests this action too and you as the white person come along and call the white protestors as negros. Or in Germany neo nazis kills Turks and some Germans protest against the racism and neo nazis accuse German protestors being a Turk and call them with names like ´Mustafa´.

That is how racist your Agop thing is unfortunately. 

You are only here to show how racists some Turks are!! 

Well done!

 



Edited (9/23/2013) by thehandsom

29.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:41 pm

Racist Agops only breed contra racists ! Nothing surprising in that..............{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

30.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:45 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

Millions here protested murder of Hrant Dink. That unfortunately did not bring him back.

Those who murdered Turkish diplomats were largely punished and stopped; that did not bring the diplomats back.

Murderers of Turks in Germany are now on trial; that will not bring them back either.

 

They may not bring them back but at least killers will be punished  as well as racism

BUT Murderers of Hrant Dink is NOT IN TRIAL.

We have to punish the murderers as well as the racism!!

But unfortunately as long as people out there still think an innocent person got murdered because of his beliefs and because he was an Ermanian still makes Turkey a place where state harbours the racism.


 

 

31.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:52 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

Racist Agops only breed contra racists ! Nothing surprising in that..............{#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

You and Si++ are lucky that Turkey does not have law about hate crime. 

You would have spent huge amount time in courts. (though I doubt that you are  a kind of people who would accept punishment for the sake of telling the truth.) 

32.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 01:57 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

They may not bring them back but at least killers will be punished  as well as racism

BUT Murderers of Hrant Dink is NOT IN TRIAL.

We have to punish the murderers as well as the racism!!

But unfortunately as long as people out there still think an innocent person got murdered because of his beliefs and because he was an Ermanian still makes Turkey a place where state harbours the racism.


 

 

 

Have it your way, Agop !

Let me remind you however an old saying, "Bu kafayla gidersen askere, babayı alırsın tezkere"

33.       giz
61 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 02:07 pm

hrant dink cinayeti davasında neler oluyor sahi?

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/24733401.asp

thehandsom liked this message
34.       burakk
309 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 04:32 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

Millions here protested murder of Hrant Dink. That unfortunately did not bring him back.

Those who murdered Turkish diplomats were largely punished and stopped; that did not bring the diplomats back.

Murderers of Turks in Germany are now on trial; that will not bring them back either.

 

really? either i am following very wrong sources or you are on a different subject

 

Türk diplomatlarına karşı Ermeni suikastlarının çoğu demokratik Batı ülkelerinde düzenlendi. Ermeni teröristler Amerika, batı Avrupa ve Avustralya’da lojistik destek buluyor, daha kolaylıkla eylem yapıyor ve buralarda çoğu zaman cezasız kalıyor ya da hafif cezalarla kurtuluyorlardı. Ayrıca oralarda kanlı propagandalarına daha elverişli bir ortam buluyorlardı. Kitabımızda bunları not ettik. Meslektaşlarımız Amerika kıtasında, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, Boston ve Ottawa şehirlerinde; Avrupa’da da şu merkezlerde Ermenilerin silahlı saldırılarına uğradılar: Viyana, Paris, Lyon, Marsilya, Roma, Brüksel, Lahey, Madrid, Lizbon, Atina, Kopenhag, Cenevre, Belgrad ve Burgaz. Avustralya’da da Sydney Başkonsolosumuz ve koruma görevlisi şehit edildiler. Ermeni teröristler Tahran’da da diplomatlarımıza ve temsilciliklerimize karşı silâhlı saldırılar düzenlediler ve can aldılar.

O yıllarda Ermeni terörünün asıl merkezi Paris idi. Paris, "Ermeni terörünün başkenti" olarak .n yapmıştı. Ermeni cinayetlerinin bir çoğu Paris’te işlendi. 1975-1983 yıllarında Paris’te verdiğimiz şehitlerin isimleri şöyle sıralanabilir:

Büyükelçi İsmail Erez (24 Ekim 1975’de şehit edildi.)

Büyükelçinin makam şoförü Talip Yener (24 Ekim 1975’de şehit edildi).

Turizm ve Tanıtma Müşaviri Yılmaz Çolpan (22 Aralık 1979’de şehit edildi ).

Çalışma Müşaviri Reşat Moralı (4 Mart 1981’de şehit edildi).

Din Görevlisi Tecelli Arı (4 Mart 1981’de şehit edildi).

Başkonsolosluk koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen (24 Eylül 1981’de şehit edildi).

Bu görevlilerimizin hepsi Paris’te şehit edildiler.

Ermeni teröristler 15 Temmuz 1983 günü de Paris/Orly havaalanında Türk Hava Yolları bürosuna karşı bombalı saldırı düzenlediler. Saldırıda 8 kişi öldü, 60 kişi yaralandı (ölenler: 1 Amerikalı, 1 İsveçli, 2 Türk ve 4 Fransız idi).

Basın Müşaviri Selçuk Bakkalbaşı Paris’te ağır yaralandı: 26 Eylül 1980

Maliye Müşaviri Ahmet Erbeyli’ nin arabası Paris’te bombalandı: 13 Ocak 1981

Başkonsolos Kaya İnal Paris’te ağır yaralandı: 24 Eylül 1981.

Fransız makamları, korumakla yükümlü oldukları halde Türk diplomatlarını korumamışlar ve Ermeni terörüne göz yummuşlardır. Katillerin çoğu yakalanmamış, cinayetlerin failleri meçhul kalmıştır. Yakalanan veya teslim olan Ermeni katiller de müstahak oldukları cezalara çarptırılmamışlardır. 24 Eylül 1981 günü T.C. Paris Başkonsolosluğunu basan, oradaki koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen’i öldüren ve Başkonsolos Kaya İnal’ı ağır yaralayan Ermeni teröristler Fransız mahkemesi tarafından layık oldukları cezalara çarptırılmamışlardır. Bugün işlemediği bir suç için Türk ulusunu lekelemeğe kalkışan Fransız Parlamentosu, Fransa’nın başkenti Paris’te Türk diplomatları arka arkaya katledilirken kılını kıpırdatmamış, Ermeni cinayetleri kınamamıştır.

 


also as far as i remember only one woman from the german socialist nationalist group was caught, and many crap has happaned in her trial as well. but none of the responsible high ranks of their governmental connections have been questioned.

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Of course I did..

. But you dont.

 

coming from the fact that you automatically assumed that i didnt do something without knowing anything about it, i will be having a very difficult time in believing that you did what you say you did.

 

it doesnt matter what you do outside, anyone can claim anything or do anything. how do you know maybe giz is a professor in history of pornographic philosophy subject in boğaziçi. i was talking about the things you wrote here and what i have seen so far. here you didnt mention those people but you mentioned hırant dink. uğur mumcu was also murdered with state support. why focus on a different politically-involved one?

 

i dont mind anyone defending the rights of minorities even if some groups in those minorities have been harmful to turkey. but what gets on my nerves is the trying to pull the subject into some other area, trying to make it look neutral, not really like "defending armenians" but more about "defending an innocent man" and etc. defending something different but looking like actually defending someting else, slipping the other thing under the table as well. this kind of trying-to-sound-neutral-in-things point of view really tricks us into many crap that normally harms us.



Edited (9/23/2013) by burakk
Edited (9/23/2013) by burakk

Kelowna liked this message
35.       giz
61 posts
 23 Sep 2013 Mon 10:38 pm

Quote:burakk

how do you know maybe giz is a professor in history of pornographic philosophy subject in boğaziçi.
hönnnnkkkkkkkk

thehandsom and Nadya. liked this message
36.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 24 Sep 2013 Tue 12:12 am

Are you all still in the same circle?



Edited (9/24/2013) by gokuyum

37.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 24 Sep 2013 Tue 01:11 am

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

really? either i am following very wrong sources or you are on a different subject

 

Türk diplomatlarına karşı Ermeni suikastlarının çoğu demokratik Batı ülkelerinde düzenlendi. Ermeni teröristler Amerika, batı Avrupa ve Avustralya’da lojistik destek buluyor, daha kolaylıkla eylem yapıyor ve buralarda çoğu zaman cezasız kalıyor ya da hafif cezalarla kurtuluyorlardı. Ayrıca oralarda kanlı propagandalarına daha elverişli bir ortam buluyorlardı. Kitabımızda bunları not ettik. Meslektaşlarımız Amerika kıtasında, Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, Boston ve Ottawa şehirlerinde; Avrupa’da da şu merkezlerde Ermenilerin silahlı saldırılarına uğradılar: Viyana, Paris, Lyon, Marsilya, Roma, Brüksel, Lahey, Madrid, Lizbon, Atina, Kopenhag, Cenevre, Belgrad ve Burgaz. Avustralya’da da Sydney Başkonsolosumuz ve koruma görevlisi şehit edildiler. Ermeni teröristler Tahran’da da diplomatlarımıza ve temsilciliklerimize karşı silâhlı saldırılar düzenlediler ve can aldılar.

O yıllarda Ermeni terörünün asıl merkezi Paris idi. Paris, "Ermeni terörünün başkenti" olarak .n yapmıştı. Ermeni cinayetlerinin bir çoğu Paris’te işlendi. 1975-1983 yıllarında Paris’te verdiğimiz şehitlerin isimleri şöyle sıralanabilir:

Büyükelçi İsmail Erez (24 Ekim 1975’de şehit edildi.)

Büyükelçinin makam şoförü Talip Yener (24 Ekim 1975’de şehit edildi).

Turizm ve Tanıtma Müşaviri Yılmaz Çolpan (22 Aralık 1979’de şehit edildi ).

Çalışma Müşaviri Reşat Moralı (4 Mart 1981’de şehit edildi).

Din Görevlisi Tecelli Arı (4 Mart 1981’de şehit edildi).

Başkonsolosluk koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen (24 Eylül 1981’de şehit edildi).

Bu görevlilerimizin hepsi Paris’te şehit edildiler.

Ermeni teröristler 15 Temmuz 1983 günü de Paris/Orly havaalanında Türk Hava Yolları bürosuna karşı bombalı saldırı düzenlediler. Saldırıda 8 kişi öldü, 60 kişi yaralandı (ölenler: 1 Amerikalı, 1 İsveçli, 2 Türk ve 4 Fransız idi).

Basın Müşaviri Selçuk Bakkalbaşı Paris’te ağır yaralandı: 26 Eylül 1980

Maliye Müşaviri Ahmet Erbeyli’ nin arabası Paris’te bombalandı: 13 Ocak 1981

Başkonsolos Kaya İnal Paris’te ağır yaralandı: 24 Eylül 1981.

Fransız makamları, korumakla yükümlü oldukları halde Türk diplomatlarını korumamışlar ve Ermeni terörüne göz yummuşlardır. Katillerin çoğu yakalanmamış, cinayetlerin failleri meçhul kalmıştır. Yakalanan veya teslim olan Ermeni katiller de müstahak oldukları cezalara çarptırılmamışlardır. 24 Eylül 1981 günü T.C. Paris Başkonsolosluğunu basan, oradaki koruma görevlisi Cemal Özen’i öldüren ve Başkonsolos Kaya İnal’ı ağır yaralayan Ermeni teröristler Fransız mahkemesi tarafından layık oldukları cezalara çarptırılmamışlardır. Bugün işlemediği bir suç için Türk ulusunu lekelemeğe kalkışan Fransız Parlamentosu, Fransa’nın başkenti Paris’te Türk diplomatları arka arkaya katledilirken kılını kıpırdatmamış, Ermeni cinayetleri kınamamıştır.

 


also as far as i remember only one woman from the german socialist nationalist group was caught, and many crap has happaned in her trial as well. but none of the responsible high ranks of their governmental connections have been questioned.

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Of course I did..

. But you dont.

 

coming from the fact that you automatically assumed that i didnt do something without knowing anything about it, i will be having a very difficult time in believing that you did what you say you did.

 

it doesnt matter what you do outside, anyone can claim anything or do anything. how do you know maybe giz is a professor in history of pornographic philosophy subject in boğaziçi. i was talking about the things you wrote here and what i have seen so far. here you didnt mention those people but you mentioned hırant dink. uğur mumcu was also murdered with state support. why focus on a different politically-involved one?

 

i dont mind anyone defending the rights of minorities even if some groups in those minorities have been harmful to turkey. but what gets on my nerves is the trying to pull the subject into some other area, trying to make it look neutral, not really like "defending armenians" but more about "defending an innocent man" and etc. defending something different but looking like actually defending someting else, slipping the other thing under the table as well. this kind of trying-to-sound-neutral-in-things point of view really tricks us into many crap that normally harms us.

 

You, again, completely gone off the track.

You are trying to justify Hrant Dink´s low level murder with  Asala terror activities.

Asala terrorism can NOT be justification for a racist murder.

Ugur Mumcu. Yes it is done by the deep state. His murderers are still not found. But I dont think it was racism related.  But the murderer of Hrant Dink did run around as ´I killed an Armenian´ and the worse thing is that he was proved to be organized by the state and there are many people still belives that his murder was justified!!!  (if you check the forum section I am sure you will find something from me written about U Mumcu too.)

A racism motivated murder was justified!!!

Why? Because no one wants to utter the words "A racist Turk shot an innocent Armenian from his back with the help of state racism and covered it".

Yes, as it said in the article : " we have a murderer; he is our boy and he has done that cowardly act with the help of very many!

 

ps: You dont mind anyone defending rights of minorities? Thanks.. Very generous of you!!!.. You could have minded and we all know what it means. But let me tell you one thing : No one is asking you anymore if you would  mind or not. We, as citizen of Turkey ,WILL protect the rights of minorites. (It means most of the time, protecting them from you).

giz liked this message
38.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 24 Sep 2013 Tue 01:12 am

 

Quoting giz

hönnnnkkkkkkkk

 

You should teach Turkish and sense of humor..lol

Nadya. liked this message
39.       Nadya.
26 posts
 24 Sep 2013 Tue 10:43 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

You should teach Turkish and sense of humor..lol

 

 She does actually. Cool

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