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Understanding Turkish newspapers
1.       sufler
358 posts
 03 Nov 2013 Sun 04:52 pm

Merhaba.

Is that true that Turks don´t like reading newspapers, because despite being native speakers of Turkish they have problems understanding the long, compound sentences which appear in almost every article? Is it possible that in official issues the language is getting too difficut even for native speakers?

 

I really heard that opinion from one Turkish person.

hazzel liked this message
2.       tunci
7148 posts
 03 Nov 2013 Sun 05:26 pm

 

Quoting sufler

Merhaba.

Is that true that Turks don´t like reading newspapers, because despite being native speakers of Turkish they have problems understanding the long, compound sentences which appear in almost every article? Is it possible that in official issues the language is getting too difficut even for native speakers?

 

I really heard that opinion from one Turkish person.

 

- Quite few Turks are reading newspapers but enough. I know many people reading newspapers as much as they have free time to read.  The problem is generally Turks don´t have a reading habit. I mean, reading books. 

-I don´t think native Turks are having problem with understanding long sentences in the newspapers unless they are academic or tecnical articles. Or, sometimes religous articles that are heavily written using lots of Arabic words and phrases in it. 

- Yes, naturally in official issues the language is getting difficult, but at least, a native can get gist of it however, our law language still needs to be simplified since there are many old terms [arabic origin ] are used in law texts. 

For example ;

The following text is from Turkish Trade Law, that a native Turk may find difficult to understand. 

 

TURK TİCARET KANUNU 

MADDE 128- (1) Her ortak, usulüne göre düzenlenmiş ve imza edilmiş şirket sözleşmesiyle koymayı taahhüt ettiği sermayeden dolayı şirkete karşı borçludur.

(2) Şirket sözleşmesinde veya esas sözleşmede bilirkişi tarafından belirlenen değerleriyle yer alan taşınmazlar tapuya şerh verildiği, fikrî mülkiyet hakları ile diğer değerler, varsa özel sicillerine, bu hüküm uyarınca kaydedildikleri ve taşınırlar güvenilir bir kişiye tevdi edildikleri takdirde ayni sermaye kabul olunur. Özel sicile yapılan kayıt iyiniyeti kaldırır.

(3) Sermaye olarak taşınmaz mülkiyeti veya taşınmaz üzerinde var olan veya kurulacak olan ayni bir hakkın konulması borcunu içeren şirket sözleşmesi hükümleri, resmî şekil aranmaksızın geçerlidir.

(4) Paradan başka ekonomik bir değer veya bir taşınırın sermaye olarak konulmasının borçlanılması hâlinde şirket, tüzel kişilik kazandığı andan itibaren bunlar üzerinde malik sıfatıyla doğrudan tasarruf edebilir.

(5) Taşınmaz mülkiyetinin veya diğer ayni bir hakkın sermaye olarak konulması hâlinde, şirketin bunlar üzerinde tasarruf edebilmesi için tapu siciline tescil gereklidir.

(6) Mülkiyet ve diğer ayni hakların tapu siciline tescili istemi ile diğer sicillere yapılacak tescillerle ilgili bildirimler, ticaret sicili müdürü tarafından, ilgili sicile resen ve hemen yapılır. Şirketin tek taraflı istemde bulunabilme hakkı saklıdır.

(7) Şirket, her ortağın sermaye koyma borcunu yerine getirmesini isteyebileceği ve dava edebileceği gibi, yerine getirmede gecikme sebebiyle uğradığı zararın tazminini de isteyebilir. Tazminat istemi için ihtar şarttır. Şahıs şirketlerinde bu davayı ortaklar da açabilir.

(8) Ortaklarca, sermaye olarak konulması taahhüt edilen hakların korunması için, kurucular tarafından ortaklar aleyhine ihtiyati tedbir istenebilir. Tedbir üzerine açılacak  davalar için, Hukuk Usulü Muhakemeleri Kanununda öngörülen süre ancak şirketin tescil ve ilanı tarihinden itibaren işlemeye başlar.

2. Temerrüt  faizi

MADDE 129- (1) Zamanında ifa edilmeyen sermaye para ise, 128 inci madde gereğince tazminat hakkına halel gelmemek şartıyla, aksine şirket sözleşmesinde veya esas sözleşmede hüküm yoksa, şirketin tescili anından itibaren temerrüt faizi de ödenir.

 

3.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Nov 2013 Sun 05:26 pm

 

Quoting sufler

Merhaba.

Is that true that Turks don´t like reading newspapers, because despite being native speakers of Turkish they have problems understanding the long, compound sentences which appear in almost every article? Is it possible that in official issues the language is getting too difficut even for native speakers?

 

I really heard that opinion from one Turkish person.

 

Right but we laso watch the news on TV or liston to it on the radio where long and well-formed sentences are easily heard. I think we manage to be able to understand them anyway.

 

But then again I admit the problem. Just give a long (confusing) text to some group of native speakers and the chances are that no 2 people will understand the same thing.

 

This post of yours has triggered some searching on my side and I have found something like this as an example:

 

Kötü amaçların güdüldüğü bir öğretmen okulundayız. Yetiştirilen öğretmenlere öğrencileri nasıl muvaffakiyetsizleştirecekleri öğretiliyor. Yani öğretmenler birer muvaffakiyetsizleştirici olarak yetiştiriliyorlar. Fakat öğretmenlerden biri muvaffakiyetsizleştirici olmayı, yani muvaffakiyetsizleştiricileştirilmeyi reddediyor, bu konuda ileri geri konuşuyor. Bütün öğretmenleri kolayca muvaffakiyetsizleştiricileştiriverebileceğini sanan okul müdürü bu duruma sinirleniyor, ve söz konusu öğretmeni makamına çağırıp ona diyor ki: "Muvaffakiyetsizleştiricileştiriveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsinizcesine laflar ediyormuşsunuz ha?"

We are in a teachers´ training school which has evil purposes. How to make unsuccessful ones is being taught to the teachers who are being educated in that school. So teachers are educated as makers of unsuccessful ones. However one of those teachers refuses to be maker of unsuccessful ones, in other words, to be made a maker of unsuccessful ones, he talks about and criticizes the school´s stand on the issue. The headmaster who thinks every teacher can be made easily/quickly into a maker of unsuccessful ones gets angry. He invites the teacher to his room and says "You are talking as if you were one of those we can not easily/quickly turn into a maker of unsuccessful ones, right?"

4.       sufler
358 posts
 03 Nov 2013 Sun 05:54 pm

@tunci

I think native speakers of every language have problems understanding the law publications, that´s why the job of a lawyer is still so profitable

 

@si++

Hehe, your examples seem really extreme and I don´t think I´ve ever encountered sentences long like these in any Turkish online article. But for example this:

  Kültür ve Turizm Bakanı Ertuğrul Günay, Mevlana Müzesi ziyareti sırasında yeni restore edilen Derviş Hücreleri adı verilen odaları gezdiği sırada ´LED´ ekran monitöre simülasyon amaçlı yansıtılan dervişin gözleriyle önünden geçen kişiyi takip etmesine tepki gösterdi.

Do you think it´s long enough to cause problems with understanding among native speakers?

 

***

My translation:

"The minister of Culture and Tourism Ertuğrul Günay, while walking around the newly renovated rooms called Dervish Alcoves during his visit to the Museum of Mevlana, showed reaction to the fact that a dervish displayed as a simulation on a LED ekran monitor followed with his eyes the persons passing in front on him."



Edited (11/3/2013) by sufler [added the translation]

hazzel liked this message
5.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Nov 2013 Sun 06:09 pm

 

Quoting sufler

@tunci

I think native speakers of every language have problems understanding the law publications, that´s why the job of a lawyer is still so profitable

 

@si++

Hehe, your examples seem really extreme and I don´t think I´ve ever encountered sentences long like these in any Turkish online article. But for example this:

  Kültür ve Turizm Bakanı Ertuğrul Günay, Mevlana Müzesi ziyareti sırasında yeni restore edilen Derviş Hücreleri adı verilen odaları gezdiği sırada ´LED´ ekran monitöre simülasyon amaçlı yansıtılan dervişin gözleriyle önünden geçen kişiyi takip etmesine tepki gösterdi.

Do you think it´s long enough to cause problems with understanding among native speakers?

 

***

My translation:

"The minister of Culture and Tourism Ertuğrul Günay, while walking around the newly renovated rooms called Dervish Alcoves during his visit to the Museum of Mevlana, showed reaction to the fact that a dervish displayed as a simulation on a LED ekran (screen) monitor followed with his eyes the persons (people) passing in front on him."

 

No problem for me! I believe a native speaker can easily understand it. You should be giving more complicated ones.

 

And by the way your translation is very accurate. Did you do it yourself or ...?

 

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6.       sufler
358 posts
 03 Nov 2013 Sun 06:20 pm

Thanks, yes I´ve done it completely myself

I had only one doubt about this "simülasyon amaçlı" part.. I mean, I understood the general sense, but wasn´t sure which words in English will suit it the best in translation.

 

Btw, I thoughlessly re-wrote the word "ekran", because in my native language we use it too in the meaning of "screen" xD

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7.       impulse
298 posts
 05 Nov 2013 Tue 10:57 am

To tell the truth last paragraph you provided is very simple Turkish. You must have a look at this book

 It is literary and high level Turkish if you seek for it. Most sentences in it will nake you dizzy )) Best)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-vIi_JkzT4Nd3h5YXAybVBybDg/edit?usp=sharing



Edited (11/5/2013) by impulse
Edited (11/5/2013) by impulse

hazzel and sufler liked this message
8.       sufler
358 posts
 08 Nov 2013 Fri 12:46 am

 

Quoting impulse

To tell the truth last paragraph you provided is very simple Turkish. You must have a look at this book

 It is literary and high level Turkish if you seek for it. Most sentences in it will nake you dizzy )) Best)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-vIi_JkzT4Nd3h5YXAybVBybDg/edit?usp=sharing

 

I realize that paragraph was simple, but I talked with another Turkish person who said they found it "very confusing". That´s why I wasn´t sure whether or not it is easy to understand for native Turkish speakers {#emotions_dlg.confused}

 

And as for the book, I will check it out now

 

9.       burakk
309 posts
 08 Nov 2013 Fri 04:37 pm

 

Quoting sufler

Merhaba.

Is that true that Turks don´t like reading newspapers, because despite being native speakers of Turkish they have problems understanding the long, compound sentences which appear in almost every article? Is it possible that in official issues the language is getting too difficut even for native speakers?

 

I really heard that opinion from one Turkish person.

 

i never observed this. actually we usually whine about the simple and popularistic, and often gramatically challanged language of the newspapers. turkey is a large country though, some sections might be finding it unnecesarry to read the politicized papers

 

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