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If I have a question...
1.       sufler
358 posts
 09 Nov 2013 Sat 11:49 pm

Merhaba.

I got such a message from a friend: sormak istediğin bişey var mı?dostum

And I wanted to reply: "No, my friend. If I have a question I will write.",

so I said yok dostum. bir sorum varsa yazarım

 

But apparantly I´ve been misunderstood:

yok sağol : )

pardon yanlış anladım benim bi sorum yok yani : )

It seems my friend understood that I was asking if they have a question.

So, could I say my phrase any better to avoid misunderstanding?

tomac liked this message
2.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 02:02 am

yok dostum. bir sorum olursa yazarım.

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3.       tomac
975 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 12:19 pm

I wonder - in Sufler´s sentence, is "varsa" a conditional form of "var" or of "varmak"? Or, in other words, how Sufler´s sentence could be understood by Turkish speaker?

 

I´m asking because I found this phrase in a dictionary:

 

aklında ne varsa - whatever you have on your mind

 

If "ne varsa" means "whatever is", then I thought that "varsa" may mean "if is". Could it be possible that "varsa" can be used in Sufler´s sentence instead of olursa?

 

Another question which just came to my mind - do both phrases have the same meanings?

 

aklında ne varsa

aklında ne olursa



Edited (11/10/2013) by tomac

4.       tunci
7149 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 01:07 pm

 

Quoting tomac

I wonder - in Sufler´s sentence, is "varsa" a conditional form of "var" or of "varmak"? Or, in other words, how Sufler´s sentence could be understood by Turkish speaker?

 

I´m asking because I found this phrase in a dictionary:

 

aklında ne varsa - whatever you have on your mind

 

If "ne varsa" means "whatever is", then I thought that "varsa" may mean "if is". Could it be possible that "varsa" can be used in Sufler´s sentence instead of olursa?

 

Another question which just came to my mind - do both phrases have the same meanings?

 

aklında ne varsa

aklında ne olursa

 

 

"varmak" is different , it means = to arrive 

"var " = available, there are [is], exist

 

By using " olursa " , you are referring the future or aorist . [ If I will have a question , or  " whenever I have a question " ] 

However, " varsa " is more like referring the present moment. [ If you have a question [at the moment] 

That´s why that friend of Sufler probably misunderstood him. 

 

Another example ;

İnternet bağlantın varsa Turkishclass´a bakabilirsin.

[If you have [at the moment] internet connection, you can check Turkishclass.

 

İlerde bir gün internet bağlantın olursa Turkishclass´a bakabilirsin.

If you will have an internet connection you would [will] be able to check Turkishclass.

 

[Note that we normally prefer to say  " Internetin [ internet bağlantın ] olsaydı Turkishclass´a bakardın. ---> If you had an internet connection, you would have checked Turkishclass ]

 

İmagine, you are getting a new job next week, and you don´t know if you will have an internet connection in your office or not . You are saying to your friend ;

Yeni işyerimde internet bağlantım olursa sana e-mail atarım.

 

You wouldn´t say "varsa", since  "varsa" is referring the present time whereas "olursa" is referring the future.

 

So, we can use olursa for "past and future " 

"varsa" is more like referring the "present moment"

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5.       tunci
7149 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 01:15 pm

 

Quoting tomac

 

Another question which just came to my mind - do both phrases have the same meanings?

 

aklında ne varsa

aklında ne olursa

 

aklında ne varsa ---> This is definetely referring the present tense. 

Whatever you have [ at the moment] in your mind.......

 

aklında ne olursa --> This one doesn´t sound very good but what I understand from this is " Whatever you [will ] have [anytime, or in the future ] in your mind..........

 

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6.       tomac
975 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 01:53 pm

Thank you Tunci for your very detailed explanations - they are really helpful. Much appreciated!

This made me think - what about "olsa". Could it be used instead of varsa, like here?


Aklında ne varsa

Aklında ne olsa

 

Google search for the second phrase returned only one result, which is actually bit different - this makes me think that varsa cannot be simply replaced with olsa?

7.       tunci
7149 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 02:41 pm

 

Quoting tomac

Thank you Tunci for your very detailed explanations - they are really helpful. Much appreciated!

This made me think - what about "olsa". Could it be used instead of varsa, like here?


Aklında ne varsa

Aklında ne olsa

 

Google search for the second phrase returned only one result, which is actually bit different - this makes me think that varsa cannot be simply replaced with olsa?

 

Honestly, that doesn´t make sense to me Tomac. I mean, replacing "olsa" with"varsa" for that case does not ring any bell in my mind. But if you are asking the possibility of replacing "olsa" and "varsa" for any other cases, then it needs bit explanation , for example ;

 

For hypothetical thoughts or expressions ;

 

Param olsa altın alırım.  ---> [Hypothetically ] If I had money  I would [will] buy gold.

The person is thinking hypothetically, saying if  he had money at the moment he would invest that money to buy gold.

--------------------------------------------

If we try to replace it with "varsa" in the same sentence ;

Param varsa altın alırım. ---> That is sounding weird. 

 

We use  "varsa" in the expressions which are NOT hypothetical ;


Param varsa niye hala bu işte çalışıyorum ? --> [ If I have money [cos people think[claim] that I have money, then why am I still working in this job ? ] ---> People are really thinking that I have money --> So, we can not say it is a hypothetical thought. If it is how people think then why I am still working in this job ? 

So, It is more like conditional thinking . If I have money, why I am still in this job ? 

 

Param olsa bu işte çalışmam.  ---> If  I [hypothetically] had money, I would not work in this job. 

 

This is my opinion. May be someone else can explain better.

 



Edited (11/10/2013) by tunci

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8.       tomac
975 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 03:13 pm

Thank you again Tunci for very detailed explanation. It surprised me that although both "varsa" and "olsa" don´t contain any tense suffix, only conditional "-sa", then "varsa" can be used for "present" conditions and "olsa" only for "hypothetical". Perhaps this is because, as far as I know, "olmak" means "to become", not simply "to be", so "varsa" means "if there is" and "olsa" "if it becomes" <- which indeed suggests to me that we´re talking about something hypothetical. But that´s just my theory

 

That made me think what is difference between two sentences, which, as far as I know, both have hypothetical meanings:

 

1) Param olsa bu işte çalışmam.

2) Param olsaydı bu işte çalışmazdım.

 

I suppose that in the first sentence we hypothetize about present situation:

1) If I had money, I would not work in this job. <- however, I do work in this job.

But in the second, we hypothetize about past situation?

2) If I had had money, I would have not work in this job. <- however, I didn´t have money so I worked in this job.

9.       tunci
7149 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 05:29 pm

 

Quoting tomac

Thank you again Tunci for very detailed explanation. It surprised me that although both "varsa" and "olsa" don´t contain any tense suffix, only conditional "-sa", then "varsa" can be used for "present" conditions and "olsa" only for "hypothetical". Perhaps this is because, as far as I know, "olmak" means "to become", not simply "to be", so "varsa" means "if there is" and "olsa" "if it becomes" <- which indeed suggests to me that we´re talking about something hypothetical. But that´s just my theory

 

That made me think what is difference between two sentences, which, as far as I know, both have hypothetical meanings:

 

1) Param olsa bu işte çalışmam.

2) Param olsaydı bu işte çalışmazdım.

 

I suppose that in the first sentence we hypothetize about present situation:

1) If I had money, I would not work in this job. <- however, I do work in this job.

But in the second, we hypothetize about past situation?---> Yes, but he is still working in this job.

2) If I had had money, I would have not work in this job. <- however, I didn´t have money so I worked in this job.

 

Good analysis Tomac. I agree with how you interpreted both sentences above.

 

1. However, in the main clause of the second sentence --->  " so I worked in this job"  it is highly possible that the person is still working in this job. In other words, he is imagining if he had had money in the past he would never have worked [or started to work]  in this job, but the reality is that  he is still working in the same job , because he had or has still no other alternative. He is just pissed off with his  job.

I said its highly possible because when we say "bu iş " that means the job is in front of us, I mean, we are referring things with "bu" which is very close to us. In other words, the person is making this statement while he is doing that job by pointing it.

 

2. Or, it is possible  that  he didnt have money so he worked in that job in the past.He left that job and  now he works in other job or not working. 


We will know it  by choosing "bu" or  " O" 

I mean ----> "bu işte çalışmazdım" he worked ın that job in the past and [most highly possible that] still working in that job.

 "O işte çalışmazdım."---->  he worked ın that job ın the past and he is not working in that job anymore.



Edited (11/10/2013) by tunci
Edited (11/10/2013) by tunci

Moha-ios and tomac liked this message
10.       tomac
975 posts
 10 Nov 2013 Sun 07:01 pm

Thank you Tunci for your help, and especially about explanation of how bu/o may change meaning of the second sentence!

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