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Possessive exceptions
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1. |
28 Feb 2014 Fri 03:37 am |
I know English is full of exceptions but I always was taught that Turkish is a consistent language.
Then I discovered this:
http://www.turkishtools.tourkika.com/possession/
Are there more examples of irregular Possessive forms. I came across
ömür (
ömrüm).
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2. |
28 Feb 2014 Fri 02:15 pm |
I know English is full of exceptions but I always was taught that Turkish is a consistent language.
Then I discovered this:
http://www.turkishtools.tourkika.com/possession/
Are there more examples of irregular Possessive forms. I came across
ömür (
ömrüm).
Some words [especially loanwords ] lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.
Example:
izin - leave, time off - becomes izn-im [NOT izin-im]- my leave
in the example, the final vowel of the noun root is dropped when adding a suffix which begins in a vowel.
-fikir
fikrimiz - our idea
- keyif keyfi - his/her joy
oğul oğlum - my son
boyun boynu - his neck
nakil nakli - his transport
ahit ahdi - his promise
* In the last two examples above that the final consonant -t has changed into its soft form -d.
kayıp - loss
kaybı - his loss -
* in the example above, -p softens into -b when it takes possesive suffix.
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3. |
28 Feb 2014 Fri 02:24 pm |
Below, some more examples :
ağız / ağzı
alın / alnı
bağır / bağrım
beniz / benzi
beyin / beynimiz
boyun / boynu
böğür / böğrüm
burun / burnu
geniz / genzi
göğüs / göğsün
gönül / gönlünüz
karın / karnı
oğul / oğlu
Edited (2/28/2014) by tunci
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4. |
28 Feb 2014 Fri 02:54 pm |
I guess that comes from some form of euphonic contraction, that took over to the point it´s not correct anymore not to do it, similarly to what happens in French and Italian with the definite article: la+vowel becomes l´, or in English with a/an.
Is there any kind of pattern to know which words drop their vowel, or is it something we have to learn along with the words? I notice all your examples are 2-syllable words, and the last vowel is i/ı/ü/u.
Edited (2/28/2014) by Khaur
Edited (2/28/2014) by Khaur
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5. |
01 Mar 2014 Sat 12:07 am |
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6. |
01 Mar 2014 Sat 02:49 pm |
I guess that comes from some form of euphonic contraction, that took over to the point it´s not correct anymore not to do it, similarly to what happens in French and Italian with the definite article: la+vowel becomes l´, or in English with a/an.
Is there any kind of pattern to know which words drop their vowel, or is it something we have to learn along with the words? I notice all your examples are 2-syllable words, and the last vowel is i/ı/ü/u.
You have to learn those words, however there are some indications that gives us a clue about this kind of vowel dropping ;
* Some organ names with two syllables, when they take suffix starting with a vowel, their middle [second] sound drops.
burun ---> burun + um ----> burnum
boyun ---> boyun + u ----> boynu
ağız ---> ağız + ımız ----> ağzımız
alın ---> alın + ın -----> alnın
karın ---> karın + ım ----> karnım
beyin ---> beyin + i ----> beyni
* When some two syllable words having wide vowels [a,e ,o ,ö] in their first syllable and narrow vowels [ı ,i, u ,ü ] in their second syllable , take suffix starting with a vowel, the middle sound drops.
alın ---> alın + ı ----> alnı
resim ----> resim + im ---> resmim
bağır ---> bağır + ım ---> bağrım
gönül ----> gönül + üm ---> gönlüm
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7. |
02 Mar 2014 Sun 02:38 pm |
Some words [especially loanwords ] lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.
So it should NOT be called "possessive exceptions". It can be called a phonetic development.
The possesive exceptions I know of are:
su -> su-yum, su-yun, su-yu, etc.
ne -> ne-yim, ne-yin, ne-yi, etc
şu -> şu-yum, şu-yun, şu-yu, etc.
bu -> bu-yum, bu-yun, bu-yu, etc.
...
Normally possessive suffixes are of dropping kind (after a vowel -m, -n, -si, -miz, -niz, -leri).
pusu -> pusu-m, pusu-n, pusu-su, etc.
anne -> anne-m, anne-n, anne-si, etc.
komşu -> komşu-m, komşu-n, komşu-su, etc.
tabu -> tabu-m, tabu-n, tabu-su, etc.
...
Edited (3/2/2014) by Mushin
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8. |
04 Mar 2014 Tue 11:02 pm |
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9. |
04 Mar 2014 Tue 11:03 pm |
Some words [especially loanwords ] lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.
So it should NOT be called "possessive exceptions". It can be called a phonetic development.
The possesive exceptions I know of are:
su -> su-yum, su-yun, su-yu, etc.
ne -> ne-yim, ne-yin, ne-yi, etc
şu -> şu-yum, şu-yun, şu-yu, etc.
bu -> bu-yum, bu-yun, bu-yu, etc.
...
Normally possessive suffixes are of dropping kind (after a vowel -m, -n, -si, -miz, -niz, -leri).
pusu -> pusu-m, pusu-n, pusu-su, etc.
anne -> anne-m, anne-n, anne-si, etc.
komşu -> komşu-m, komşu-n, komşu-su, etc.
tabu -> tabu-m, tabu-n, tabu-su, etc.
...
If this were English, everyone would be calling these excpetions.
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10. |
04 Mar 2014 Tue 11:26 pm |
If this were English, everyone would be calling these excpetions.
If these were Polish, they wouldn´t be unusual enough to call them exceptions
Edited (3/4/2014) by tomac
Edited (3/4/2014) by tomac
Edited (3/4/2014) by tomac
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11. |
05 Mar 2014 Wed 12:18 pm |
I said: So it should NOT be called "possessive exceptions". It can be called a phonetic development.
You say: If this were English, everyone would be calling these excpetions.
OK No objections to your calling it exceptions but possessive exceptions.
I don´t see the possessive suffixes functioning irregularly with those you call exceptions. (I have provided some examples of possessive suffixes functioning irregularly.)
There are some irregularities with those words that happen when any (not just possessive) suffix is added to them.
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12. |
05 Mar 2014 Wed 04:20 pm |
OK No objections to your calling it exceptions but possessive exceptions.
I don´t see the possessive suffixes functioning irregularly with those you call exceptions. (I have provided some examples of possessive suffixes functioning irregularly.)
There are some irregularities with those words that happen when any (not just possessive) suffix is added to them.
Does ömür behave differently when other suffixes are added? As I don´t know.
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13. |
05 Mar 2014 Wed 06:00 pm |
It is " Orta Hece Ünlüsü Düşümü " middle syllable vowel dropping. Whether you call it as an exception or a fonetic development, does not change the fact that there is " vowel dropping" happening with some words or . It is not seen only with possessives, it can be seen with other suffixes. For instance , take one of those word:
İzin + e ---> izne [ to day [s] off from work ] Yakında izne çıkacağım ---> I will have days off from work soon. [ in other words, I will have get holiday from work]
Middle syllable dropping, because, when it takes a suffix, it becomes the middle syllable.
izin
İ + zi + ne ----> izne
=================================
ömür ö + mü + re ---> ömre
Seninle bir dakika ömre bedel ! ---> Being with you one minute , worth a life !
* However, when the suffix starts with a consonant, then the vowel dropping don´t occur.
Ömür + den ---> Ömürden Ömür + de ---> Ömürde Ömür + süz ---> Ömürsüz Ömür + lü ---> Ömürlü Ömür + se ---> Ömürse
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